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Are we talking about blame for the market in general, Bubblesitter? I'm not an expert on that. Anyone who conributed to fraud and less than scrupulous deals, I suppose. Who's to blame for your individual troubles? Only you can answer that.
I disagree, Mr. Fantastic, and unless you personally know every real estate agent in the business, that's not a statement that should be made. I've had good and bad experiences with people in many professions as a consumer, but don't damn the entire profession for a negative one. Instead, I try to learn what I can from the experience and go into the next one better prepared. I also take a level of personal responsibility. As consumers, we need to due our own due diligence, whether it is choosing a representative, or following advice. There's a limit to real estate agents' responsibilities and duties and if there are any questions or concerns beyond those lines, buyers and sellers need to consult an attorney or CPA for added information.
Bashing people indiscriminately isn't an answer to anything. What do you do for a living? I'm sure there are people who denounce almost every profession.
American in Japan
2011 Feb 17, 2:19am
I suspect some of the critics of BuyerBeware on this post are real estate agents...
hmmmm...
Don't touch that. WHAT DO YOU DO? You touch it.
Don't look, it'll scare you. WHAT DO YOU DO? You look.
The picture says scary don't look, but the wording says: It's beautiful, spacious, has great flow and a PEAK A BOO VIEW, perfect for the family (not theirs). WHAT DO YOU DO? You go with them hand in hand.
Why do car dealer salesman make you follow them...? It's control and it's all based on the theory of opposites. When you ride with your realtor in their car, you've already lost half the battle.
When you do not exercise your due diligence by doing your own homework, then you can only expect them to sell you what they are able to move. They lead and you follow.
Car dealerships operate the same way. They have a manufacture price and the MSRP price. We see that manufacture price and we're led to believe that the car really cost exactly that and that the dealer isn't making any money on it outside of that. GIVE ME A BREAK. This is the conjured illusion of a master.
This illusion only exists so long as all dealerships play the same game. The moment one goes rogue it all goes South. There are overhead expenses that in some cases, cost more monthly than the houses that we're looking to buy. Then you couple that with payroll, insurances and the immense taxes. It's impossible for a dealer to make all their profits on service alone. The only ones in the know, are those who are on the inner most circles. Simply said, they can't trust some of their most trusted , because their human.
This is also true for the Real Estate business, even though I went off on a tangent. The real estate business operates in much the same way, even on the tier of those in charge (the banks). Think of it all in terms of concentric circles. The further out they are, the less expensive they are. The realtors/brokers/bankers try to keep the concentric circles as dense as possible. This allows them to keep prices higher on the outer rings.
The outer most rings are the outer most reaches of territory with controlled pricing. The closer to mecca you get the more expensive. Profits and the likes are based out of the center of the rings (bullseye/mecca) When they lose control of each outer ring the prices and profits drop. These guys (realtors/bankers/brokers) are all swimming up stream and the power of the flow of water is gaining immense strength. That's when they revert to drastic measures to stay in the swim for survival.
They want these outer most rings to remain high for as long as they can. It allows them to bank as much as they can and all at the detriment of anyone who they can get their hands on.
THERE'S TRUTH TO THE UNITED WE STAND AND DIVIDED WE FALL. THAT'S HOW THEY OPERATE. If we're to stand a chance on normalizing the market at all, then we too need to stand together and lead them as opposed to being lead. After all, we are their employers. When my buck stops paying them their paycheck stops. Remember, they're to blame for all of this. They represent the root and not the branches. I for one am going to hold off on buying a new home until the market really normalizes.
Ok guys, I give up trying to convince you that all real estate agents aren't corrupt or evil! They're aren't, but I can see your minds are made up. I am not, btw, "employed" by a broker. We are independent contractors who rely on our repuations for referrals. That is how we make a living. Here, anyway, reputation is very important. My license is held with a boutique DC brokerage that would sever a relationship with any agent who DID do the things you suggest in this blog. Marketing is one thing, breaking the rules, laws or acting in an unprofessional manner is another. I wish you all luck and hope things improve for you soon. : )
Please understand that realtors do not have your best interests at heart, they have their own. Also, you will often not be privy to a house until the realtors, bankers, builders, appraisers and their friends and relatives decide they don't want it. Good luck.
I’m starting to think the OP is BS.
Look at that area on Redfin:
http://www.redfin.com/search#!lat=34.689968643041496&long=-118.15727233886719&market=socal&v=6&zoomLevel=13
It’s foreclosure city, and most houses are listed for less than 150K and have been sitting on the market for months and months. It’s a bloodbath out there and this guy can’t buy a house with straight-up cash?
Well, it could be that those are just the listing prices, and the realtors are working as a cabal to make sure all closings are above the sales prices.
A buyer's agent has a direct conflict too. The buyer wants to spend as little as possible for the house. The more the buyer spends, the higher the commission for the agent. Totally conflicting.
Ok, so the squabbling goes on and on. Is there a way to bypass the sellers agent and deal directly with the bank? Surely, someone must know the alternate loopholes to jump through. The agents and others in charge of these places are obviously not doing their job fairly, much less ethically.
Why do we need to go through the agents to get into some of the inventory? Maybe we need a law put in place that makes banks deal directly with knowledgeable and qualified citizens, despite the existence of realtors and brokers.
WE CAN'T ALL BE WRONG!
Patrick
2011 Feb 17, 8:13am
Excellent explanation of the conflict inherent in being a buyer's agent!
PockyClipsNow
2011 Feb 17, 8:17am
You people complaining about agents are either lazy, cheap, or both. Get your own license or STFU.
For gods sake it takes 2 weeks of classes to get a license - some people have been on this site complaining about agents for FIVE YEARS! hahaha. Take the time you would normally spend whining and complaining and get educated. Start here: http://dre.ca.gov/exm_home.html
At peak fraud (2006) there were 500,000 licensed agents in CA. Its pretty easy.
This sounds like the behavior of *most* of the Realtors and agents I've met. Buy direct if you can, bank or other owner - if you buy from a Realtor you are supporting supporting the liars and thieves who destroyed our economy for a commission.
"Without even knowing her, I can almost guarantee that Susan has watched a client of hers enter into an unfavorable contract without uttering a peep so she could get paid. Therefore when her professional responsibility demanded it, when state law required it, she did not use her professional capacity to represent her client. That’s the bottom line."
Another personal dig? Really? And here I thought we were going to be friends. : )
I'm happy to say that I have more than once derailed a transaction that could have closed when I learned something about the home that wasn't in the clients' best interests and I always "peep", though I'm not always listened to.
I see that what this is really about is not wanting to pay commission for a service you (personally) don't value. If I understand correctly, this is primarily about reaching banks directly on foreclosures. You'd rather tour the homes yourself and make your own deals. The system isn't set up that way so yes, that would be frustrating for you. You'd have, at least, to go through the listing agent. If I were in the bank's position, however, I wouldn't want to deal with a lot of calls, emails, incomplete or inaccurate submissions. So there would have to be a website or something that would channel those offers in and make sure they complied with criteria. Banks have those websites (I've submitted to them through the lister) but obviously no public access.
SO... one of you enterprising people should create a .com for that! (and an app) I'm sure it would be wildly popular! And if it was well conceived, banks would probably love saving the commssions too. Laws vary, but if an entitiy has a broker on staff to list properties on their behalf, I believe it is ok. The bank's on staff broker or your .com's broker would have to list the properties.
Part of the problem I see with not having real estate agents is access to properties for viewing. For security reasons alone, sellers can't just open the house to anyone at any time. How do you see that working?
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Feb 17, 10:22am
I see that what this is really about is not wanting to pay commission for a service you (personally) don’t value.
The Merriam Webster online dictionary has a lot of definitions for service. Here's a couple of them:
9: the act of bringing a legal writ, process, or summons to notice as prescribed by law
10: the act of a male animal copulating with a female animal
Am I correct that you feel real estate agents are responsible for buyers' finances and personal decisions? That's not my function. I supply clients with the best resources and information I can to facilitate their home purchase, but I can't make their decisions for them, nor do I want to. I'm not allowed to give legal or financial advice, so that's also not my function. I don't get involved in their financing decisions, nor am I privy to their financial details. I request that they're prequalified by a reputable lender before touring.
I have enough respect for my clients to honor their decisions and choices. I don't treat them like children, nor do they want me to. On the rare occasion that I truly feel a client is wasting my time, I have a talk with them to see what their real motivation is. Sometimes that results in my withdrawing as their agent, or in our mutual agreement to postpone further touring until their issues are resolved. In those cases, we continue to monitor the market and listings. Most of my clients are very conservative in their choices and I applaud that.
This is not an easy job no matter what you think, and it requires far more hours and expense than most people realize. But I like helping my clients and I'd rather be doing this than something else. If that's "spouting", so be it!
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Feb 17, 11:39am
nor am I privy to their financial details.
Man alive ! (Or should I say, Woman alive !).
A realtor who will work with me without trying to size up my financial in his/her mind and direct me to showings and "coach" me on the offers appropriately. I couldn't find a realtor like that in San Jose when I was a buyer a couple of decades ago. That was why I got so turned off by them that I did my own shopping, then hired a lawyer who specialized in such matters for the transaction for a reasonable fee.
I see your point about the system and I also see the potential for the conflicts you detail and for dishonest dealing. But again, not all people are the same. I'm responsible for my own actions. It's not a problem for me to put the clients' interests first. Sorry you can't imagine that. I actually can't imagine agents doing some of the things you all have described.
Lol, well you were smart to think of that solution then, and I hope it worked out well?
Hasn't anyone seen the movie "Lord of the Rings"? Man can't be put in the position of wearing the ring, because his inner self will always be revealed when push comes to shove. You say you can't imagine that and that you do put your clients interests first, but will you pull your client out of a bad deal, when your mortgage is also due, and the money must come it, or will you just let one, or two slip by? Or, will you take the bullet for sake of what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong? If you are that exceptional individual, then maybe we all need to stop waiting for Superman too, because you're already here.
Hi,
I've been reading this blog for a few years and have been looking since about 2005. Duh, to me this mess was obvious and bound to happen when hi tech people started getting laid off in around 2001 after the dot com bust lame bs. I was witnessing the carnage first hand as private equity firms bought up companies and jobs were flipped to India by the thousands at a time. I'd inherit years of other guys work and watch them leave literally crying, with McMansions and kids in college, bitchy wives too... bye. I learned not do do it, salaries were too low and at huge risk for hi tech folk. If so many of us were at risk even that was enough to start to break things down.
Anyway, it's awesome that real estate agents come here, they must HATE this site! lol
I never thought to look at the comments but I'm finding it hilarious how many reeealtors seem to come here. They must hate this site that comes up first for "housing market" in Google.
Susan, thanks for writing lengthy posting. I enjoyed reading it. Your posting cleared up some of my suspicions regarding DC housing market and what realtors think about certain things. That does not necessarily mean I agree on every point you made or I disagree on everything though, I appreciate your posting and your time here in this forum.
I think you're specialized in upper mid to high end residential property in better part of DC and northern VA, and you don't seem to mind what cloth they wear or what car they drive. If so, that's good. My wife and I went to openhouses numerous times, and what we were looking for was the realtor, not the house itself. We're blue jeans and slipper kind of people, especially in Sunday afternoon. We don't really know why those realtors we've seen so far like to talk only with those people that wore tie and shinny shoes in Sunday afternoon though, we didn't really care either.
And you know what? All the business card we recieved for years, except only 3, went directly to trash can. I think you're relatively better than most of them, and I do hope someone is keeping your card in his/her wallet.
Lol!! You write well, Solver. I will take the bullet, and have quite a few times, maybe because I'm older and I was raised with the standards of the Cleavers, Reeds and the Greggs, I don't know. If I had to depend on a pending closing for my mortgage payment, that would be my problem, not my clients'... and that wouldn't make me superman, just logical (and a bad budgeter, I suppose!)
Things seem to be a lot worse where you are and perhaps thats why I find these scenarios foreign. We're lucky to be in a region that has a consistently good market.
I don't hate this site, icape, I'm learning a lot! I subscribe to Patrick's newsletter and post a lot of his links on my site for my buyers. Thanks for letting me participate.
Well thanks, seaside! I actually specialize in the under 750K pricepoint. I spent more time this week with two 170K - 190K buyers than those in the 4's to 7's because those homes are much harder to find here. It's hard to give everyone the same amount of time every week if I just tour on weekends, so I tour 7 days a week. I'm glad my clients don't mind MY car... it doesn't get washed as often as I'd like due to the crazy schedule. My first tour tomorrow is at 8:30 a.m. an 1.5 hours from my home in seriously bad DC morning rush traffic, so I'm going to BED now! lol
Are you a grown up or what? Its 2011 and you expect REALTARDS/REALWHORES to work for you? Never sign an exclusive buyers agreement. Work them all and work them hard...
Has anyone read from one of the new links? Rolling Stone did a piece on Wall Street and Patrick just posted it.
Not to throw this forum off on a tangent, but this is a really good article. It's just to bad that that America is no longer a fair nation. Truth, justice, freedoms... are all gone. We're doomed and we allowed it all to happen.
It’s just to bad that that America is no longer a fair nation. Truth, justice, freedoms… are all gone. We’re doomed and we allowed it all to happen.
Of course America still has all of them... on it's own convenient way. :)
Convenient is right. It's to bad we can't program a good conscience into our children. Maybe then we'd have more responsible and honest adults.
ArtimusMaxtor
2011 Feb 18, 3:40am
Well Mr. Smart guy realtors. Why don't you tell us about Trulia and Zillow. After all your licenced Realtors. How about a little diligence here? Methinks your trying to hide behind Trulia and Zillow. Which makes you down low nasty hustlers to begin with. Don't lie. If I can track you down I would to see about your licences. Or maybe that National ASSOCIATION of realtors would like to comment the one that is an association not licenced that passes itself off like they are?
ArtimusMaxtor
2011 Feb 18, 3:55am
There are a few places like PATRICK.NET that really believe in free speaking. We all have sense of course. Most of us anyway. We can see that places like CNN money and the like have shut down their comment sections. Theres a reason. People are virally mad about everything thats going on. Tired of being stolen from. I suggest if you say free speech. You should mean free speech. Not free the free speech of someone yammering at us and we can say nothing back IN PUBLIC. I submit to you that many do not like the internet. All guys can like the internet of course. The stuff we look at suggests a lot of free speech. However when I run into 80 pages of patriotic BS. With absoulutly nothing of substance. I begin to wonder. Thank you Patrick.net for all you work for truth.
Well Mr. Smart guy realtors. Why don't you tell us about Trulia and Zillow. After all your licenced Realtors. How about a little diligence here? Methinks your trying to hide behind Trulia and Zillow. Which makes you down low nasty hustlers to begin with. Don't lie. If I can track you down I would to see about your licences. Or maybe that National ASSOCIATION of realtors would like to comment the one that is an association not licenced that passes itself off like they are?
uomo_senza_nome
2011 Feb 18, 9:02am
I see your point about the system and I also see the potential for the conflicts you detail and for dishonest dealing. But again, not all people are the same. I’m responsible for my own actions. It’s not a problem for me to put the clients’ interests first. Sorry you can’t imagine that. I actually can’t imagine agents doing some of the things you all have described.
That is precisely the problem. A legitimate buyer cannot imagine that the buyer agent is working for him. Which means, the system is built to maximize "housing transactions" and not really supporting organic housing growth. Thats why housing price increase is a "bubble" because it is not reality.
The root cause for this housing market bubble is of course the amazing "Federal" Reserve, which has nothing to do about federal government whatsoever - the central monetary supply control system works for the private banks. The greedy real estate agents were just another players in the casino game.
Well, for all of those smart a_ses out there, I hope I'm one of the few on the sidelines bringing up your ship that goes down, down, down, this year and the next one. In this blogs case, the exceptions to the rulings here, are few and widely scattered.
You would think that the brokers would be cleaning their own houses. Unfortunately, it appears that the majority of them represent the tainted roots of their operations. Need I go further in explaining the trickle down affect of corruption as it extends outward from trunk to branch?
This blog is one of the best out there, simply because it's not full of the P.C. crap that has mummified our American heritage. Better to blow off steam here, then for Americans to start taking the law into their own hands, by hunting down those who are only getting spankings with foam padded paddles.
I don't know if anyone heard this, but I think I heard that anyone who bought a home in 2008 with the Obama Tax Credit, now has to pay it back in "X" amount of years, plus pay tax on it. Something weird like that, but I could be wrong.
I don’t know if anyone heard this, but I think I heard that anyone who bought a home in 2008 with the Obama Tax Credit, now has to pay it back in “X†amount of years, plus pay tax on it. Something weird like that, but I could be wrong.
Round one was a loan that must be paid back if you decided to take it.......why anyone would have taken a loan like that is beyond me, but that's what they're talking about. The second round of home credits were the $8,000 freebie with no payback required.
The first homeowner credit operates much like an interest-free loan, because it must be repaid over a 15-year period. So, for example, an eligible taxpayer who buys a home today and properly claims the maximum available credit of $7,500 on his or her 2008 federal income tax return must begin repaying the credit by including one-fifteenth of this amount, or $500, as an additional tax on his or her 2010 return.
tatupu70
2011 Feb 18, 10:07pm
Round one was a loan that must be paid back if you decided to take it…….why anyone would have taken a loan like that is beyond me, but that’s what they’re talking about. The second round of home credits were the $8,000 freebie with no payback required.
Why wouldn't you take a no interest loan??
rob918 says
Round one was a loan that must be paid back if you decided to take it…….why anyone would have taken a loan like that is beyond me, but that’s what they’re talking about. The second round of home credits were the $8,000 freebie with no payback required.
Why wouldn’t you take a no interest loan??
I personally do not like to borrow money or take out loans, I am a pay up front type of person (My grandfather and Dave Ramsey approach). More importantly to this issue though is that I do everything legally possible to keep the IRS out of my life insomuch as that is possible.
That’s why your finances are probably in good shape, and why tatupu needs his wife to pay for “his†house.
I don't know about Tatupu finances, but he seems nice enough to me. I can only speak for myself, and the pay as you go financial philosophy has worked well for me over the past three decades. Paid for rental/income units, home, vehicles. I am 50 and retired with no worries except where I am going to travel or flyfishing next........Burney Falls, Hat Creek, Cassel as well as Baum Lake in Shasta County are beautiful and great fishing places for those looking to go fishing.
klarek
2011 Feb 21, 2:21am
Well, in all fairness to the realtor/brokers. There are a few good ones out there. However, it only takes one bad apple to ruin a barrel of good ones. If your roots are corrupt, then the branches are also corrupt.
Bad, unethical, sleazy agents/brokers aren't the exception, they're the norm. It's not about a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, the whole orchard is rotten.
klarek
2011 Feb 21, 2:48am
for the most part, agents here in DC Metro seem to play fairly
Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree there. Whenever I want to find out what a house is under contract for, I just call the listing agent. Most times they tell me, even though it is a clear violation of their confidentiality agreements with their clients. RE agents in this area are complete scum. And with a median sales price far higher than the national average, they're very well-paid scum. Places like Oakton, Vienna, Mclean, and Arlington are typically $500k-$800k single family homes. What exactly does a selling agent do to justify a $24k commission? How does the seller feel about that? And the buyer as well.... $48k in commission for transferring properties. The magic of the NAR-cartel!
If anyone suspects collusion, or just something crooked going on with their realtor, or broker, you might want to visit this site and report them.
http://www.dre.ca.gov/
Also, here's the Stat of California's Office of the Attorney General
http://oag.ca.gov/consumers
If anyone knows of another governing body that is above them, then please share.
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Patrick,
The realtors in Palmdale and Lancaster are back to their old tricks. They have driven prices up 10-40% in some of the nicer neighborhoods over the last year. I think we have missed the bottom and prices are skyrocketing here faster than 2004-2006.
But, I just have to tell you about the experience we had with a realtor while looking for houses during the last year or more.
We have been looking for a newer 4bd, 2ba house on a large lot to live in for over a year now.
Early on, we made an offer on a house and lost out to another buyer that was represented by the listing agent and I felt the listing agent was very aggressive and less than honest with us as the competing buyer. I thought that we needed somebody like her to be on our side to find us a house. We talked to her and she said she would find a foreclosure that we liked and get the owner to let her list the house for a short sale. She said that she would offer the homeowner $2,000 to let her list their house. After a while she only was able to get one listing so we just continued to look for listings from other agents.
Over the year, I kept telling this realtor that I wanted to get a good price for all cash on a house. She argued with me, saying that I was being unreasonable and unrealistic about prices. All she ever told us about during the last year were houses at the comp price and nothing that was a good value. I was the one who found 4 houses that we liked and we made offers on only to lose out to higher bidders.
Recently, a house at 42521 36th street W., Lancaster 93536 came on the market at $200,000 and I knew it was way under priced, so I called our realtor to show it to us. She said she was busy and could not show it to us. At that point I should have called the listing agent to show it to us, but felt some type of misplaced loyalty to this agent and did not want her to miss out on the commission. Well the house sold in quickly to an investor for $247,500 cash. A couple of days after it closed, that house was listed back on the market for $350,000. Now our agent emailed the listing to me and wanted to show it to us. In the email she had the nerve to say tell me jokingly, “The house just sold and now those bastards are trying to screw you again:), but it is still a good price at $350,000â€.
I replied to her email that she was fired and here is the part that just kills me.
She responded to me saying that she had already known about the house on 36th when I called her and that she had shown it to other clients. After all of this time, I thought that she would have shown me the same loyalty that I had shown her and I would have been the first person that she would show it to or at least get a shot at it. So much for trust and loyalty on my part to a realtor.
I also found out that during all of this time, that her mother had been buying houses at trustee sales and she would list the houses for $100,000 more than they were purchased for. Every time I see a house listed with the broker that this realtor is working for, the asking price is around $30,000-50,000 higher than the last comp for the area. This partially explains why she would never show me any houses that were below market value. FYI - The sale for $250,000 was to some other investor not her mom.
I just feel like the whole real estate industry full of dishonest people and is rigged against the buyer. I have better odds of finding an honest salesman at a used car lot or hitting it big in Las Vegas than I do of finding an honest realtor.
Sorry everybody for rambling on, but I just cannot believe I was so trusting, stupid and naive with this realtor.
Note by Patrick: the first comment below was just an insult so I deleted it.
#housing