patrick.net

Mark_LA says

I specifically said after 2008, and made it clear that due to Regulation Z, the truth in lending act, nobody with “funny money” has bought here. Most everyone who has bought here since 2008 is upper-middle-class or wealthy.

Yes, yes, yes... Regulation Z enforces American Apartheid making absolutely certain that no upstart "undesirables" get a "funny loan" and move in next door. Regulation Z entrenches places where the "desirables" congregate in economically enforced fortresses.

God Bless America! (Or at least, Rich America.)

simchaland says

Mark_LA says

I specifically said after 2008, and made it clear that due to Regulation Z, the truth in lending act, nobody with “funny money” has bought here. Most everyone who has bought here since 2008 is upper-middle-class or wealthy.

Yes, yes, yes… Regulation Z enforces American Apartheid making absolutely certain that no upstart “undesirables” get a “funny loan” and move in next door. Regulation Z entrenches places where the “desirables” congregate in economically enforced fortresses.
God Bless America! (Or at least, Rich America.)

Not really, Mr Fantastic just found the "undesirables" (as you refer to them) a $1,250 apartment that'll allow them to send their kids to a fortress (as you call it), top-rated school. That's cheaper than a month's private school tuition.

Mark_LA says

$135,000 household gross income * .40 = $54,000

And $54000 is like 60~65% of their net after tax income, and it doesn't even include util and maintanance. Wow, are they really spending like that for housing? Sure, they could if that's what they want. But it sounds like they well deserve some suffering. If there's no tax return on mortgage interest... :P

Liz Pendens says

“Forgive me, I must start by pointing out that three years after our horrific financial crisis caused by financial fraud, not a single financial executive has gone to jail, and that’s wrong.”

Who do you want to put in jail and why ?

It's certainly more yup scale here now than it was when my dad bought our place in the '60s. Used to have lots of blue collar home owners around. Once the school district became "highly rated", home prices jumped. All of my friends that have kids here rent apartments.

SF ace says

From my perspective, the school district premium is just a pass thru cost. You pay 300K in premium, and you just sell it for at least a 300K premium in the future, albeit if the school stays top notch as well.

Its a shame that so many for so long (decades) NEVER EVER paid for this fairy tale premium.

Nope! Never heard of it.

Admittedly, South Pasadena is a Fortress, so distressed properties are in short supply. I normally like to check RealtyTrac NOD listings against the recorders website, but LA county doesn't put their records on line, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
According to RT, the home at 418 Arroyo Dr. received a NOD around Feb. 15 (amount due: ~$1.8million). Purchased for $2.225 million in 2004, it was refinanced with Indymac in 2005. There is another deed of trust with Metrocities Mortgage in 2007.

seaside says

Mark_LA says

$135,000 household gross income * .40 = $54,000

And $54000 is like 60~65% of their net after tax income, and it doesn’t even include util and maintanance. Wow, are they really spending like that for housing? Sure, they could if that’s what they want. But it sounds like they well deserve some suffering. If there’s no tax return on mortgage interest…

For some people PITI is the only math. Few of the guys here need to take economics 101. Never mind, I think they took economics 101 but buying into 800K shack with an average income is stupidity is not taught in that kind of class. It it taught through the mouth of a RE agent. Real estate 101. :)

Mr.Fantastic says

seaside says

e ’60s. Used to have lots of blue collar home owners around. Once the school district became “highly rated”, home prices jumped. All of my friends that have kids here rent apartments.

But it’s a rich enclave. Spending half your net income on housing is what rich people like Mark and his friends do.

FYI, that's PasadenaNative's comment, not mine.

Mr.Fantastic says

But it’s a rich enclave. Spending half your net income on housing is what rich people like Mark and his friends do.

I don't think anyone should buy a home with 45% DTI, which is what Fannie and Freddie will allow to those with good credit. I was simply showing you that even at the MAX DTI that Freddie and Fannie allow, only a household income of $130k+ will qualify for a loan on an $800k home.

That was to prove to you that you're dead wrong in stating that $80k household incomes are purchasing homes in South Pasadena. They're priced out of this city, period. So, $130k or higher income means that only upper-middle-class or wealthy families are able to purchase there...that's the absolute bare minimum you need to make to purchase an $800k albatross in South Pasadena.

PasadenaNative says

It’s certainly more yup scale here now than it was when my dad bought our place in the ’60s. Used to have lots of blue collar home owners around. Once the school district became “highly rated”, home prices jumped. All of my friends that have kids here rent apartments.

Not only did South Pasadena become "highly rated"...most of the surrounding nightmare bloated bureaucratic school districts like LAUSD became "horribly rated", so a lot of people that would've bought somewhere else all of a sudden will pay a premium to be able to send their kids to a good public school. It makes financial sense vs. paying for private school, or sending your kids to a bad public school...of course, if you can afford it.

Or, just do like my friends. Rent an apt., send the kids to So. Pas. schools, save even more money that way...

Mr.Fantastic says

Except that 50% of the homes sold in the past 12 months in South Pasadena (as reported by RedFin) were under 800k.

Oops.

Oops...I was quoting YOUR statement that "The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000."

That'll teach me to take a genius's word for granted.

Mr.Fantastic says

The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000. 10x the median household income? You think that’s a wealthy enclave? BS. That’s a neighborhood of pretenders and future foreclosures.

Mark_LA says

Mr.Fantastic says

Except that 50% of the homes sold in the past 12 months in South Pasadena (as reported by RedFin) were under 800k.

Oops.

Oops…I was quoting YOUR statement that “The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000.”

That’ll teach me to take a genius’s word for granted.

Mr.Fantastic says

The median household income in South Pasadena is only $80,412, and the average owner occupied home is over $800,000. 10x the median household income? You think that’s a wealthy enclave? BS. That’s a neighborhood of pretenders and future foreclosures.

But actually, you were only off by $50k...out of ALL 181 Single Family Homes SOLD in South Pasadena in the past 12 months, they averaged $750k @$430 per sq. ft. To get a loan for a $750k home, you still need to make ~$130K+, which makes you upper-middle-class or wealthy:

thomas.wong1986 says

Liz Pendens says

“Forgive me, I must start by pointing out that three years after our horrific financial crisis caused by financial fraud, not a single financial executive has gone to jail, and that’s wrong.”

Who do you want to put in jail and why ?

Heh - Maybe Mark LA should lead the frog march? After all, check out the picture... and his alias IS two of Angelo Mozillo's initials backwards... :-)

sigh- But no one's gonna do that, though.

Do have to say i was surprised they actually pressed charges against Michael Perry...

Mark_LA says

you still need to make ~$130K+, which makes you upper-middle-class or wealthy:

That's interesting.

Mark_LA says

PasadenaNative says

It’s certainly more yup scale here now than it was when my dad bought our place in the ’60s. Used to have lots of blue collar home owners around. Once the school district became “highly rated”, home prices jumped. All of my friends that have kids here rent apartments.

Not only did South Pasadena become “highly rated”…most of the surrounding nightmare bloated bureaucratic school districts like LAUSD became “horribly rated”, so a lot of people that would’ve bought somewhere else all of a sudden will pay a premium to be able to send their kids to a good public school. It makes financial sense vs. paying for private school, or sending your kids to a bad public school…of course, if you can afford it.

That just doesn't make sense to me. And I'll explain my position. This is what I remember from the bubble in another neighborhood.

I remember during the bubble years we were visiting our friends who live out in Old Agoura and there was this strange phenomenon in a nearby area called "Agoura Hills". There was this street called Grey Rock Rd which had houses priced in mega millions, while just 200 feet away were apartments which were still in late 300's and eventually bubbled to I think 600k or something.

It seemed like some sort of real estate hype scam, since they both were going to the same school. But 200 feet makes apparently drew a magical line there. It didn't make sense. It's same people, same air, same neighbors, and same schools. Just some real estate hype that probably will/has run it's course.

Liz Pendens says

Heh - Maybe Mark LA should lead the frog march? After all, his alias IS two of Angelo Mozillo’s initials backwards

Yes Liz.. Angelo is a good start. But you can see there was lots of corruption with Angelo and members of Congress. You would think people like Dodds and Franks who serve on the Committee with oversight on Banking would think twice regarding having a conflict of interest.

Mark_LA says

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Mark,

Which site did you use to pull up the arial view of a city with each school scored?

Thanks,

Rob

Mr.Fantastic says

What was that about South Pasadena being an enclave for millionaires where prices don’t fall because everyone wants top public schools

I never stated it was en enclave for millionaires (I would only count net worth of $5 million+ as California Millionaires, $1 million net worth doesn't cut it here due to the high cost of living). An enclave for that would be Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Malibu, the nicer parts of Pasadena, San Marino, and La Canada would also be included. Very little of South Pasadena would be included.

Millionaires don't need a good public school district, they send their kids to private schools. Someone who makes $130k-$180k per year is upper-middle-class, not a "millionaire". In California, they can afford to buy a home in a good school district, but not send their kids to private school.

rob918 says

Mark_LA says

A picture is worth a thousand words:

Mark,
Which site did you use to pull up the arial view of a city with each school scored?
Thanks,
Rob

Redfin.

Liz Pendens says

Heh - Maybe Mark LA should lead the frog march? After all, check out the picture… and his alias IS two of Angelo Mozillo’s initials backwards

Haha - What's your avatar of? It looks like a cross between Richard Simmons and Nicole Bass.

Mr.Fantastic says

True, but you did say that “South Pasadena’s Bubble has shown no signs of deflating”, but you just (perhaps unwittingly) showed that median home sale prices did drop, by about $50,000 between 2009 and now.

Wow, that's great news for me since it's one of the places I'm considering purchasing in the next 1 to 2 years :)

Mr.Fantastic says

Why don’t you buy now? You don’t want your kids in those piss poor schools, right?

My oldest is a 2 year old toddler, plenty of time to time the market just right.

Mark_LA says

Haha - What’s your avatar of? It looks like a cross between Richard Simmons and Nicole Bass.

Heh.

I have no idea, frankly I was looking for a screaming pic on Google. Was the best i could find. Heh.

Mark_LA says

Mr.Fantastic says

Why don’t you buy now? You don’t want your kids in those piss poor schools, right?

My oldest is a 2 year old toddler, plenty of time to time the market just right.

So you are betting on housing to go down until your little one is ready for primary school. Isn't it?

Pasadena is bizarro-land. It wants to be 1910 quaint but with contemporary hipster parent attitudes. Yet, please, I can shop at Banana Republic and pay $12 for mediocre ice cream cones anywhere in SoCal--what's so special about Pasadena for that?

Oh, yes, school districts. The children!, the children!

We only go to Pasadena when we want the "How Fake is LA" tour to extend another couple zipcodes when friends are in town and can't believe how much soullessness there is.

SF ace says

Mr F living in Irvine, you should know Irvine has fantastic schools in a setting built for children. But boy, that drive highway 5 north/south to/from LA is brutal with no alternatives.

Life is brutal. If your kid cant handle the streets, you think he/she will be able to handle the work environment when they hit the career track.

bubblesitter says

So you are betting on housing to go down until your little one is ready for primary school. Isn’t it?

I could afford in 2006 without funny loans and a good DTI ratio, I can afford today as well. The current price of homes in good school districts is fine for my income. If it goes down further, then of course, I love a good deal as much as anyone else.

I would like to see RE prices flat or up at least at the same pace of inflation year-over-year for 18 months in a row before I purchase my next home, which will likely be where I stay at least until my kids start college. That'll tell me we're past any fake bottoms in the market. Even if I miss the exact bottom by a bit, it won't matter because I'm purchasing a home to live there long-term, not as an investment.

Mark_LA says

bubblesitter says

So you are betting on housing to go down until your little one is ready for primary school. Isn’t it?

I could afford in 2006 without funny loans and a good DTI ratio, I can afford today as well. The current price of homes in good school districts is fine for my income. If it goes down further, then of course, I love a good deal as much as anyone else.
I would like to see RE prices flat or up at least at the same pace of inflation year-over-year for 18 months in a row before I purchase my next home, which will likely be where I stay at least until my kids start college. That’ll tell me we’re past any fake bottoms in the market. Even if I miss the exact bottom by a bit, it won’t matter because I’m purchasing a home to live there long-term, not as an investment.

Okay. According to some here the market is flat since early 2009.

Mr.Fantastic says

SF ace says

Mr F living in Irvine, you should know Irvine has fantastic schools in a setting built for children. But boy, that drive highway 5 north/south to/from LA is brutal with no alternatives.

True, Irvine has been voted as the top safestest city in the U.S like 2 or 3 times now, and the school district is excellent.
Technically you can get to L.A by the 405 and 5, and yes if I did commute to L.A, it would be brutal, but I’ve had an office building in Tustin (Neighboring city) for about 20 years now. It takes me about 10 minutes to get from my house to Tustin, which I do about 1-2 times a week.

I wouldn't live behind the Orange Curtain if you paid me to. Way too Republican for my tastes....

SF ace says

You worry about the carrer track if you are even on the track first. Handle the streets will not help you get into Goldmand Sachs, Google, or any of the top 100 companies listed by Forbes as best places to start a career.

Like the Bronx maybe!

CEO of Goldmand Sachs...
Lloyd Craig Blankfein
Born September 20, 1954 (1954-09-20) (age 56)
Bronx, New York, USA

Mr.Fantastic says

PasadenaNative says

Mr.Fantastic says

SF ace says

Mr F living in Irvine, you should know Irvine has fantastic schools in a setting built for children. But boy, that drive highway 5 north/south to/from LA is brutal with no alternatives.

True, Irvine has been voted as the top safestest city in the U.S like 2 or 3 times now, and the school district is excellent.
Technically you can get to L.A by the 405 and 5, and yes if I did commute to L.A, it would be brutal, but I’ve had an office building in Tustin (Neighboring city) for about 20 years now. It takes me about 10 minutes to get from my house to Tustin, which I do about 1-2 times a week.

I wouldn’t live behind the Orange Curtain if you paid me to. Way too Republican for my tastes….

That’s funny coming from someone who claims to live in South Pasadena, aka the HQ of SPRWF. I kid.
Yes, Irvine is much more conservative than most areas in the state, but it’s also safer, has a high level of educational attainment, and people here enjoy a higher quality of life (Irvine Median Household Income: $107,821 vs South Pasadena: $80,412). It was also voted #22 on CNN Money’s Top places to live, a list you probably will never see South Pasadena making:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2010/snapshots/PL0636770.html
You can’t really compare the two cities.

I know, So. Pas is even too conservative for me, but, it's where my parents settled...they have both passed on and I have taken over ownership. I like Seattle and Portland, myself, and I feel plenty safe in So. Pas. Plus, I'm childfree so I don't have to worry about schools and shit.

I abhor CNN "Money."

Well, I like CNN money.
But this particular CNN article losts me when it listed Ellicott city, MD as #2.
It's quite nice place, but #2 in US? I wonder what would be the criteria CNN is using.
If it is # of mean bitches in population or something, I can rate my area as #1 in US. :P

seaside says

Well, I like CNN money.

But this particular CNN article losts me when it listed Ellicott city, MD as #2.

It’s quite nice place, but #2 in US? I wonder what would be the criteria CNN is using.

If it is # of mean bitches in population or something, I can rate my area as #1 in US.

Well aren't you just the comedian.

DC metro area. Be corky or be bullied out is the motto.

to MarkLA:

Where can teachers (public or private) earning $75,000 annually afford to buy in these 'GREAT South Pasadena school districts???

Oh, they must be "The only ones pissed off by this are the PermaRenters with the low median incomes who can’t afford to buy in an area with good schools" that you wrote about.

And by the way, I would never buy a house from a realtor wearing a bow tie.

That house is where I had my first-ever beer, in 1980. It was awful. Bud, I think.

Philistine says

Pasadena is bizarro-land. It wants to be 1910 quaint but with contemporary hipster parent attitudes. Yet, please, I can shop at Banana Republic and pay $12 for mediocre ice cream cones anywhere in SoCal–what’s so special about Pasadena for that?

You've got it wrong. It's a great city. The consumer-hipster parent scene only developed in the past 20 years, around the time "Old Town" really took off. And Banana Republic? That's been there, what, 6 years?