patrick.net

are you looking for moral support because you thought you got a better deal than you actually did?

It takes a lot more than 1 appraisals class to become a licensed appraiser.

The people who do these appraisals aren't any better than the crappy home inspectors.

"It takes a lot more than 1 appraisals class to become a licensed appraiser."

But not enough classes, apparently, to learn fundamentals of statistics, ie. how to properly calculate the median of a given set of numbers.

Did you notice what the figure was on the HUD line item showing the buyer's agent commission?

Compared to that, $450 is a steal.

It's funny...your tone kind of insinuates that you're the disgruntled owner, miffed about how the appraiser's shoddy methods grossly undervalued your house. But since you were the buyer, why are you so upset about this? Their incompetance could have saved you tens of thousands of dollars. The appraisal might truly be bogus (though I don't think so) but this is like paying with a $10 and being given change for a $20, and then going off on the cashier for their incompetance.

Plus, it's not like the $450 report was going to have any value anyway. It can only be used for 90 days until it has to be recertified or completely redone. Even if you were trying to flip the house, you'd want a new appraisal (obv). That report became worthless the minute you closed. As long as it closed to your liking, you should be happy.

david1 says

So I just bought a house, close at the end of the month. Price is fine, mortgage payment will be less than equivalent rent by at least 20% and the PITI is less than 18% of my income (Not counting wife’s at all)

You did great. Congratulations.

When I bought my house, the appraiser said to me "Wow, I'm going to have a hard time getting this to appraise out."

I said "You mean it's less worth than we're in contract for?"

He said "No, I'll have a hard time justifying how low the price is."

I asked "Why would they care if the price is under what it appraises for?"

He said "Having a selling price way under the appraisal price makes the banks nervous. They're worried there's some fundamental problem like slope stability or foundation issues that the appraiser missed."

So yes, I'd say that appraisers hit the numbers on both sides of the equation making them, essentially, worthless. The appraiser put the value at 25k over what we were in contract for, and when I read through the report he was making aggressive use of adjustments for 'view' or 'lot size' etc. And when the comparison was in favor of our house, the adjustment was minor.

EG, against a place with a 5k square feet smaller lot size got us a -85k applied to our valuation (saying our 5k was worth 85k), against a place with a 5k LARGER lot our house got a +25k applied to it. (Saying their extra 5k was worth 25k) So, lot size IS a bit subjective, and going from 10k to 15k might be worth more than going from 15k to 20k, but it was pretty extreme.

I know someone who purchased a house, for sale by owner, for 60K under the asking price of an almost identical house 4 doors down. This resulted in an angry call from the agent, trying to sell the house down the street, complaining that they were, "ruining the appraisal value for the neighborhood."

The house down the street sold a month later for 5K over what my friends purchased for.

Real estate appraisal is a total farce. Read: "The Truth About Real Estate Appraisal", available on Smashwords.com.

Appraisals = Opinions. In my opinion, those so called professional opinions are no better then just reading the local landscape on your own. We (consumer) need a way to prevent those that are bought and paid for from continuing to rip us off.

The bank says they need an appraisal to base their loan on. The broker/realtor need an appraisal to justify the moneys being asked for. Obviously, the higher it is, the better the pay off. I really think that the appraisal represents the psychological leverage that everyone else needs to better qualify the sale price/purchase price.

I guess I should start lubing up for our home purchase. Congrats on your willingness to purchase. I'm not convinced yet, especially since the second recession is already starting.

When we refinanced last year I wrote up a 3 page memo describing why our house should be favorably appraised and also listed about 10 comps based on Zillow, thusly explaining why our house should be worth less/more, and breaking out these properties into $/sqft and applying that rate to our house. I gave this memo to the appraiser when they arrived and walked them through all our upgrades and remodel work. It took the appraiser a full week to get back to us and we came in well higher than I realistically expected (but was still fair). The report ended up with some really odd comps as well, and some lingo that I didn't get...but I was happy. I think the thing to take away is, if you are banking on a high appraisal you need to go all out to show the appraiser that you will be a total pain in the ass OCD nightmare to deal with by doing your homework and being super dilligent. I happen to be a CPA, so it comes easy to me, haha.

You do know that the old adage goes...

"Location, Location, Location"

that is just classic economics, the Realtor lady with the big key calculator has nothing to do with it.

But I'm confused, is the house you are looking to buy appraised for 250-275K or in the 100K range like you said the average house in that neighborhood sales for?

Normally I don’t post to this type of message, however felt it was important to inform the readers here.
1.) Not anywhere in the URAR form does the form ask for the "median" price of the comparable sales utilized. You are most likely reading 1004MC which is for neighborhood market analysis and could, but does not necessarily include the comparables sales utilized.
2.) Since you’re an “expert” you would know that Case-Shiller is a 3 month rolling average and does not account for specific neighborhood markets. I’m sure your six months of market studies are more reliable then the MLS statistics, interviews with agents, and other database materials.
In addition you point out a 2 week old sale with a time adjustment. The Market Conditions Adjustment is based on the contract date, not the closing date. It is not your fault, had you taken the “under 90 IQ”, “night class” you would have known this. Of course common sense should play a small part since being an expert you know sales could take longer than 6 months to close.
3.) Most important do you have any better comparable sales then those utilized by the appraiser? I love this question because 9 times out of 10 the “expert” home owner doesn’t even know of a single sale. Most of the time they point at active listings, homes that have not sold.
The tone of your post, especially the last paragraph, is what forced me to make the above comments. Try being nice and perhaps those replying to your post would give you more credit. Keep in mind the appraiser was getting beat-up when the market was going up, by not coming in high enough, and on the way down, as the market declines. In addition appraisers have to reply to readers that don’t understand how to read the form.
I imagine the appraiser you’re picking on makes less than $50,000 per year, based on your comments you make considerable more. Is your $450 harder to make then hers? Your post is one of many reasons banks do not release appraisal reports to the borrower.

Getting into rent vs ownership again. You have the right idea on apprasials. Of course the first ten years is nothing but interest payments so it's kind of hard to classify it as "ownership". Because just like renting if you don't pay they throw you out. 20% under what? Well the answer is 30 years of mortgage payments. Which is not a month to month or even a one years lease. Meet your ball and chain.

Payments instead of ownership is what we should be discussing in my opinion. When it comes to homebuying.

That said a rent that is bargained for. Getting the lowest rent payments instead of getting "price fixing" With no lease. So you can move at your own time. Instead of someone elses. When you get a better deal on rent. Instead of being locked into a system that sucks you dry.

OK, I am not defending this appraisal as I have not seen it but a few clarifications might assist.

1. The median price you see is for the entire neighborhood as defined on the front of the report. It is not the median of the sales used in the report. There may also be a form 1004MC attached which has some statistical information on it that is in relation to the subject property (properties very similar to your house). This should not be confused with the parameters for the entire neighborhood which includes the universe of properties that are nothing like your house.

The comparable sales used in the report may be the "best available". The best comparables are not always the most similar. They must meet lender requirements for time, size, age and location. Not enough information is provided to determine this.

2. The declining market rate is on an annualized basis and is typically computed on the last three months or to the oldest comparable sale used in the appraisal. So, in your instance the appraiser is saying that the market has been dropping at a 15% annualized rate for the last three months or so. Keep in mind that Case-Shiller is a three months moving average and is two to three months behind today. Also, in computing the declining market the appraiser is using the contract date, and not the closing date of the comparable sales.

3. See #1 above. These may be the best sales available to meet the lender requirements. There is a difference between what appraisal theory says are the best comparable sales and what the banks and GSEs (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA) say are the best. Guess who wins that battle.

If you used one of the big banks to finance your house or most any bank for that matter then the appraiser never saw that $450. He/she got maybe $250 to $275 of that. Google Appraisal Management Companies for a primer on this debacle.

starbreaker says

When we refinanced last year I wrote up a 3 page memo describing why our house should be favorably appraised and also listed about 10 comps based on Zillow, thusly explaining why our house should be worth less/more, and breaking out these properties into $/sqft and applying that rate to our house. I gave this memo to the appraiser when they arrived and walked them through all our upgrades and remodel work. It took the appraiser a full week to get back to us and we came in well higher than I realistically expected (but was still fair). The report ended up with some really odd comps as well, and some lingo that I didn’t get…but I was happy. I think the thing to take away is, if you are banking on a high appraisal you need to go all out to show the appraiser that you will be a total pain in the ass OCD nightmare to deal with by doing your homework and being super dilligent. I happen to be a CPA, so it comes easy to me, haha.

I guarantee you that folder of information you handed him went into the trash the minute he returned to his office, as it should have. It would be like getting ready for a doctor visit by going online and printing out a bunch of crap, handing your physician a folder full of printouts from WebMD when you go in for a physical, and honestly believing he'd take your "help" seriously.

Not that appraisers are doctors or anything, but they are professionals. I can tell you from personal experience that there is nothing that they hate more than some upstart trying to tell them how to do their job and throwing a folder full of zillow clippings and active listings at them as proof that the value should be "x", not to mention the fact that almost all upgrades that don't expand the liveable square footage of a house are irrelevant to the value. (ie, they don't give a shit about your new granite countertops, they aren't going to bump you up for that, so don't waste your time regailing them with the details)

And this advice, "If you want a high appraisal you need to go all out to show the appraiser that you will be a total pain in the ass OCD nightmare to deal with.." is just awful. In addition to advocating that one pester and harrass a professional who's just trying to do his/her job, you are explicitly endorsing fraud. There is a reason mortgage companies refuse to give out underwriter's phone numbers. It's the same reason people like you are prohibited by the lender from directly contacting the appraiser. They don't want pushy, overbearing idiots harrassing and/or threatening the appraiser into modifying the report in their favor.

wcarstonb says

1.) Not anywhere in the URAR form does the form ask for the “median” price of the comparable sales utilized. You are most likely reading 1004MC which is for neighborhood market analysis and could, but does not necessarily include the comparables sales utilized.

I am looking right at the report, as an addendum, entitled "Market Conditions Addendum to the Appraisal Report." Under "Inventory Analysis", Total number of Comparable Sales (settled) Current - 3 months is 5. Median Price under the same column, less than 250K. The three comparable sales used for comparative market analysis, all have sales prices above 250K. If one or all of the comparable sales were excluded from this number then the 15% annualized decline is wrong, because including a higher price in a group of 6 would significantly alter the calculated median. That is, one of the comparables is excluded, then the true number of sales is six, and the median would be the average of the listed median ($238650) and the lowest compable, $265k. This would give a ACCURATE median of ~252K. If I calculate the % decline using the given current median and the given median from 7-12 months ago, surprise, surprise, 15%. Assuming one of the comparables was excluded but using it to get the real median, then the yearly decline is down to 10%. Can't have both ways. Either one or more was excluded and the median is incorrect, or they were not excluded and it is impossible to get a median of 238K from a group of 5 when three members are 265K and above.

wcarstonb says

2.) Since you’re an “expert” you would know that Case-Shiller is a 3 month rolling average and does not account for specific neighborhood markets. I’m sure your six months of market studies are more reliable then the MLS statistics, interviews with agents, and other database materials.
In addition you point out a 2 week old sale with a time adjustment. The Market Conditions Adjustment is based on the contract date, not the closing date. It is not your fault, had you taken the “under 90 IQ”, “night class” you would have known this. Of course common sense should play a small part since being an expert you know sales could take longer than 6 months to close.

Sure. Maybe they all did take more than six months to close. Maybe they took a year to close. Or two years. Maybe. Now that I think about it, notwithstanding the little Median math error from above, I can't believe I ever questioned these numbers were massaged to fit a certain price. I'm sure these comps went under contract on the exact date that would correspond to the applied deductions for market conditions. I'm sure that if they did take six months or more to close then they wouldn't really be comps anymore, now would they? I mean, it says all over this report how she used comps from within 3 months due to changing market conditions....

Did I touch a little too close to home with the night school and 90 IQ? Come on, be honest, when you took your 5 or 6 classes at the local Kaplan U it seemed lke you were the brightest in the class, didn't it?

I don't care how much money she makes in a year. I am still convinced that I paid $450 to her for no value add whatsoever. She looked at the contract and added 7K...then massaged numbers to back it up. I would place a bet that if an analysis of her appraisals were done, well over 90% are put in within 10K under the contract price. If I had a policy of giving hundreds of dollars for a relatively worthless service often, I won't have much for too long. If that's your policy then best of luck to you.

Actually that sounds kind of, well..nevermind. Socialist. j/k.

Actually I am very proud that this little rant made the front page of Patrick.net. I'm ready for the big time. Look out New York Times!

I've owned 4 homes in the Bay Area. I've dealt with many dozens of RE agents, lenders, inspectors, and appraisers. Make take on the entire industry is that 90% are scum. There are a few genuinely honest and hard working people in the industry but you have to look for them.

I thought there are supposed to be two versions of "appraisal". A quick mechanical one should be at a nominal fee, say, $50. A real one (as david paid $450) is supposed to be a thorough one, The appraiser is supposed to be visit the property and all comps in person and examine property. Because you have to visit properties and physically examine and research them, guidence for appraiser is 16 hours work per appraisal. $450 is for that 16 hours required.

If the appraisal is carelessly prepared, we should be able ask for $400 discount, IMHO.

eoulim says

I thought there are supposed to be two versions of “appraisal”. A quick mechanical one should be at a nominal fee, say, $50. A real one (as david paid $450) is supposed to be a thorough one, The appraiser is supposed to be visit the property and all comps in person and examine property. Because you have to visit properties and physically examine and research them, guidence for appraiser is 16 hours work per appraisal. $450 is for that 16 hours required.

Where did you get your information? Is there some kind of industry standard that an appraisal is a 16 hour job?
If an independent contractor has to put 16 hours of work into a single job, he can't afford to do it for $450. This would effectively limit him to accepting 2.5 jobs per week. If he worked a 40 hour week, he makes $1125 income or $58500/yr working every weekday of the year without a day off. That is, of course impossible.
No independent contractor is able to schedule himself for every working day of the year. And most people like to take off holidays and some vacation time. He needs to cover his business overhead, SS, income taxes, health insurance, retirement account, and support his life. Seems more realistic to me to put in fewer hours per job, work many more jobs per week in the busy months, so that he can save some income to live off in the slow months, and presumably take a vacation.

Based on the quality of this report, including write up and site visits, this is a 3-5 hour job max. My guess is they do one per day and take home $300 for each job. They essentially work an area for the lender so I bet those still in the business stay pretty busy.
Its about $72K minus overhead for a half days work if they take four weeks vacation. If they really bust it, they could do 7 per week for 50 weeks, making it $105k. Not bad for a low barrier of entry akin to 20 hours of freshman level courses, plus a year in the "biz" training.

Fast Food Restaurant Managers have a similar barrier of entry and don't touch that income. And they work WAY over 40 hours per week on the average. Sad to say in this day and age but I bet you would find well over 50% of McDs managers have some college. That was money well spent - off topic but true.

Which brings to another post above; I know it was expressly said "not to compare an appraiser to a Doctor." Well by even mentioning the word "Doctor" you are in effect doing just that. I am sorry...really..but one year of training on top of 20 hours of coursework does not, by any stretch of the imagination, come even remotely close to four years of college, four years of Medical School, five years (usually) of residency followed by another year or two of training for certain specialties. A doctor is a professional. An appraiser is a real estate agent with a better license who couldn't sell. An agent is no more a professional than any other salesperson, no matter what type of trademark they put after their title. Just to be clear, other types of salespeople are telemarketers, brokers, car salesman, etc. What do you think of those types of professions?

And I'm not a doctor and really don't care much for them. But our doctor actually asked my wife what the internet said she had the last time she went into his office. Why? Humor, because he knew she looked it up, and also because he probably was open to another opinion just to be sure of his diagnosis. She self diagnosed with WebMD the exact same condition that he did. A professional that is worth anything is willing to do his job in the way that is most effective and doesn't let his ego get in the way very often.

It's interesting the rules and pressures an appraiser has to deal with. See. I have a personal friend that is one. For over 13 years we have been friends. I can tell you they are a lot more like a regular working guy like an electrician or a plumber than anything else. Its very time consuming and difficult to drive out and back from jobs. Many times in traffic. Then doing a lot of reasearch to make the rules. It can be very technical. I've had some nice fights with my buddy. Deal is he's got his own interests to like staying in business. Believe me when it comes to dealing with an appraiser. No ones really holier than thou. I've seen my friend really get put through it for being an appraiser. Look get a good deal stop trying to make one.

ArtimusMaxtor says

I’ve seen my friend really get put through it for being an appraiser. Look get a good deal stop trying to make one.

I did. I don't care what that appraisal says...its not the point of all of this. I was just complaining about the whole system really...I determined the value of the house and resent having to pay $450 for a fallacy to validate it.

If you really want to know:
Interest, Opportunity Cost of Down Payment(@5%), Taxes, Maintenance(.75% of house value annually), & Insurance is $1226. There is no benefit for state taxes in NC (they have a standard deduction you must use) Fed. Income tax benefit (over and above st. deduction) is $170 per month. Total total carrying cost after taxes is $1056. Rent on homes in the same town is $1400 minimum. Zillow puts the rent estimate on this house at $1750, and I would say that is pretty accurate based upon the $1400 rentals that I did check out. It is actually a 40% discount to renting, but I said 20% because I didn't include the tax benefits earlier and included amortization.

In situations like these, I believe buying is superior. Even if the house has little to no surrender value, it is likely that rents will have climbed 25-50% in the next 30 years. Its really all buying a house is...not a way of building wealth but a way of hedging against escalating shelter costs. I only need to look at California, Europe, and New England to see where costs of shelter are going...people will pay 40% of their incomes or more in rent (or shelter costs) if they need to. Shelter has very inelastic demand from my experience.

20 years ago no one on California would have dreamed of spending 500K on a 50 year old two bedroom, or $2800 in rent, especially since it represented 50% of their income. It's as common as blond hair and plastic surgery out there now. Where do you think the rest of the counntry is going to head? More conservative? I have a hard time thinking of one instance, either socially or economically, where any large section of Americans have become more conservative over the past 30 years.

Appraisers are hit or miss. Good ones and bad ones in the industry. Most are producing a report that will be 'accepted' by the bank. They are also only concerned about covering their own ass*s. We recently refinanced our house. We had one heck of a surly appraiser show up who pretty much told me, stay out of my way, I want to get in and out as fast as possible, and if you follow me, it will take too long. He was in the house for 6 minutes tops! That appraisal came is so low we couldn't qualify for the refinance. Our mortgage broker actually paid out of his pocket for another appraisal with another appraiser (after he did some research he realized something was wrong). The 2nd appraiser came in 25k HIGHER. The 2nd appraisal was ordered through the same company (state street), and they actually wouldn't release the 2nd appraisal until they had it checked out by several other groups in their company to ensure it was actually correct. Needless to say, we were able to re-fi with that 2nd appraisal.

Here is a non-partisan take on this based on all the sources I have read. This is not my opinion but a collection of ideas that I have read from various news sources. Basically, it was a perfect storm of globalization/free trade, war on terror spending, and federal reserve policies.

1. Unqualified people being given mortgages, and Alan Greenspan's monetary policies.
2. Free trade and imbalance (i.e., shipment of jobs to India, China, Mexico, etc. ).
3. Oil price spike in early 2008 led to further weaken economy.
4. Unsustainable tax rate structure for top 10%
5. Excessive government spending for illegal immigrant children and adults (i.e., Medicaid, and other social safety net expenses)
6. Depression of wages due to illegal immigration
7. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; billions given to foreigners to rebuild their countries
8. Dependency on financial schemes and emphasis on banking and healthcare sectors instead of on manufacturing and technology sectors

1. The appraiser works with what is available. I'm not sure where you got the median value, but if the comps used are the most similar the median doesn't matter.

2. Use of national data for market adjustments is misleading. Prices may be increasing in one neighborhood while declining at the city or state level. Or vice versa. These adjustments are calculated on the contract date, not close date.

3. Are better comps available in your neighborhood? Were location adjustments applied and described for the out of neighborhood comps?

The report may be accurate, or not. Too many questions unanswered.

David: In Point 2. can you explain your math in this paragraph as to the time adjustment?

"For example, she reduced in price a comp that sold two weeks ago 2.5%, and another than sold 6 weeks ago 4%. Those are 90% and 40% annualized declines by my math."

90% and 40%? You sure?

1.025 ^ (52/2) = 1.90

1.04 ^ (52/6) = 1.40

@leoj707

"The house down the street sold a month later for 5K over what my friends purchased for."

If you know... How long was that house on the markey for in total (with the angry agent)? Anyway he got his fat commission soon after (although just a little lower).

Well David if you understood how the billing works. Which you probably do. Appaisers would love more automony and fair distribution. So the way things are dosen't sit as well with them as you might think.

Don't you all get it? The real estate industry, all the agents, the brokers, the laws, the people who run the state level departments of real estate, the associations, the MLS's, the appraisers...everyone in the industry exist to pay NAR a small fee so that NAR makes billions!!!! Here is a question that no one can answer: Where is all the billions going per year? Ever see a breakdown of the salaries pays to the shadow owners of NAR? What some more? One of the main reasons we had the financial meltdown was because of appraisals! Why base a one house's value on the sale price of a comparable home? This caused prices to go up....and up...and up....until POP! A house is worth what someone is willing to pay for it!!!! That's it. No more. Appraisals are a creation by Wall Street so they can sell off the loans with some claimed value. There is no such thing as an appraisal of value for a home. It's a figment of someone's imagination. The formula for valuing a home? A X B X C. A=The amount of time someone is willing to wait around for a buyer. B=The amount of money someone wants for their home. C=What someone is willing to pay for the home with the amount of time in "A". That's it. Add this formula to an open marketplace free of all those real estate professionals who are really asleep in a coma in their pods (damn our machine masters on capitol hill) and you would always...100%....find out the value of your home. God! I have to lay off the coffee Patrick :)

Artimus Maxtor...The Matrix Has you.....

ohhh pooh I knew it.

It's kind of single. I cut appraisers out of the heard. Because it's an interesting person that is an appraiser. There are bad ones true. But when I see a really good one I make note. Get the best deals you will never regret it. People that try to make bad deals good ones alway live to regret it.

See this isn't fast food. What it really is. Is taking your time and not jumping at just anything. You get that one thing you THINK is a great buy. See. Buyers first mistake. You just can't let it go. If its that good you really want it more than your GF. Think twice. An appraiser. A company man well thats a little different. You should really be learning this yourself. Thats a big ticket buy. See. It not what you think is going to sell. A really hot location is a no brainer. However there are cold spots. Lots to learn.

Simple big, big ticket buy. Treat it as such. Do your own work. Don't get lazy and let someone else do it for you. You may lose a lot of cash.

David: Your math in #2 is wrong. Look at it carefully. (2.5%/2 weeks = 1.25 x 52 weeks = 65%) & (4%/6 weeks = .67 x 52 weeks = 34.67%). Had the appraiser made your math mistake (90% and 40%) that appraisal could have been $7K under and then you may have actually made a point, or at least had a basis to rant.

Why is this important? Because it’s about credibility (that’s all an appraiser has). Your inability to do simple calculations means you don’t have a clue as to any further in depth analysis, but claim to be an “expert”. As it is, you’ve lost credibility because 1. You cannot do elementary math 2. You speak to educational requirements for the appraiser, but have no idea what these are. So your both incompetent and a liar. (Ever thought about getting your appraisal license? ) ; ^ )

You’re a nobody so your credibility doesn’t matter, but to do this to Patrick is a disservice to us all, he does a good job (with the exception of printing your nonsense).

Before you try and head to the New York Times, have your wife check your math next time. Or head down to your local elementary school math lab. If you humble yourself and change your arrogant attitude, they’d likely be happy to give you a hand.

David: Your math in #2 is wrong. Look at it carefully. (2.5%/2 weeks = 1.25 x 52 weeks = 65%) & (4%/6 weeks = .67 x 52 weeks = 34.67%). Had the appraiser made your math mistake (90% and 40%) that appraisal could have been $7K under and then you may have actually made a point, or at least had a basis to rant.

Why is this important? Because it’s about credibility (that’s all an appraiser has). Your inability to do simple calculations means you don’t have a clue as to any further in depth analysis, but claim to be an “expert”. As it is, you’ve lost credibility because 1. You cannot do elementary math 2. You speak to educational requirements for the appraiser, but have no idea what these are. So your both incompetent and a liar. (Ever thought about getting your appraisal license? ) ; ^ )

You’re a nobody so your credibility doesn’t matter, but to do this to Patrick is a disservice to us all, he does a good job (with the exception of printing your nonsense).

Before you try and head to the New York Times, have your wife check your math next time. Or head down to your local elementary school math lab. If you humble yourself and change your arrogant attitude, they’d likely be happy to give you a hand.

Cali:

lol.

This is called "being an a-hole above your pay-grade."

I'll save you a seat down at the math lab.

By the way, from the NC General Statutes, but of course, these requirements may vary from state to state:

Each applicant for certification as a certified residential real estate appraiser shall:
a. Hold an associate's degree or higher from an accredited college, junior college, community college, or university; or have a high school diploma or its equivalent and have successfully completed at least 21 semester credit hours of college courses from an accredited college, junior college, community college, or university in English composition, principles of economics, finance, higher mathematics, such as geometry or algebra, statistics, introduction to computers, and business or real estate law;
b. Demonstrate that the applicant possesses the knowledge and competence necessary to perform appraisals of real property as the Board may prescribe by having satisfactorily completed, within the five-year period immediately preceding the date the application is made, a course of instruction, approved by the Board, in real estate appraisal principles and practices consisting of at least 200 hours;
c. Present evidence satisfactory to the Board of at least 2,500 hours or the minimum requirement as imposed by the Appraisal Foundation,
NC General Statutes - Chapter 93E 6
whichever is greater, of experience in real estate appraising within the five-year period immediately preceding the date application is made, and over a period of at least two calendar years; and
d. Satisfy the additional qualifications criteria as may be imposed by the Board by rule, not inconsistent with any requirements imposed by the Appraisal Foundation; or
e. Possess education and experience which is found by the Board in its discretion to be equivalent to the above requirements.

So 21 hours of college is required, with 200 hours of a "course of instruction" (which can be done online) - And by the way, the 200 hours they are talking about is equivalent to13.33 semester hours of college...and here is my math.. a 13.33 semester hour course meets for 13.33 hours per week for 15 weeks...so 13.33 * 15 = 200.

And 2500 hours of training...which is 2500/40 = 62.5 weeks.

So I was wrong...you have to take 21 hours of some college (I said 20), and some or all of those 21 may be appraisal courses. But a minimum of the equivalent of 13.33 semester hours must be in an approved appraisal "course of instruction." Which I have found can be taken online at an "Appraisal School." Doesn't even have to be Kaplan U.

And instead of taking one year of training (52 weeks), you have to take 10.5 weeks more of training.

Gosh I was way off. Now that I know it takes 21 semester hours of college work plus 62.5 weeks of "training," I humbly withdraw my previous comments. Clearly they ARE professionals worthy of our highest esteem and praise.

Question is who sets the standards and why? Well just like anything else the answer is obvious. The larger the loan the more the interest. May not be true in Delaware or some rural area. It works really well in some other area. I could talk banks vs lenders. I won't here however.

If I did talk lender vs bank there would probably be an insurrection.