patrick.net

Speaking of "needs" -- this country needs fiscal conservatism, not bigger federal govt. Democrats have run most major cities for decades, and now certain states for decades like California, Illinois, Mass, NY, NJ -- how'z that working out -- the Democrat big-govt experiment?

I'm aware of those numbers, and it's funny you tried so hard to support Krugman, but failed b/c he DID say the #1 reason was Bush tax cuts, which most certainly was NOT -- the number #1 reason was federal spending gone wild, esp by Pelosi/Reid/Obama, the 3 socialist musketeers. And dude, the growing size of the national debt is the result of annual deficit spending. That's why the Natl Debt grows at the rate of $1.7T per year now -- I guess you're ok with that -- oh wait, you want to tax the rich more so it's only $1.6T/year.
And you are WRONG that cap gains reduction is/was a huge factor is smaller govt revenues. Wrong on 2 fronts: 1) it's not much $ of the $2T govt rev each year, and 2) it's a fact that raising the rate does NOT increase rev, and I don't even want to explain that fact to you, because you don't buy facts. You deal with static projections. If cap gains is 15% (excl state) and it's increased to 39.6%, then people will invest differently and sell later. Duh. You're an intellectual dolt, although you probably went to Bezerkely so you think you're brilliant -- belief in the progressive fiscal mantra = intellectual dolt. QED.

Troy: You are hopelessly theoretical, as many economists including Krugman are. He spouts out his stupid static numbers as if they mean a damn thing. Truth is that tax rates have major effects on behavior, oh, and tax cuts for poor and middle income people did NOT increase their rents in the '00s. Rents have contracts and end-of-contracts have choices. Have you noticed how illegal immigrants seem to save a boatload of money on rent? I have. It's not rocket-science. Open your eyes, and get out of your textbook closet.

It's a fact that the Bush tax rate cuts did not significantly reduce federal govt revenue. The '01-'02 recession did at first, but the revs recovered. There was a significant economic 'jolt' after 9/11. But revenues and total spending in the economy recovered. The reduced tax rates for all, helped. Did you like the 'marriage penalty' before Bush finally got rid of it? It pissed me off, charging us $1500/year just because we both worked together being married, rather than separately, single. I guess you were ok with that during the Clinton years. What a freaking bad joke in the tax code that was. Just like the AMT -- Clinton vetoed the elimination of the AMT in '98. Thks Bill. Even a high fraction of Dem Senators were pissed that he vetoed it. Look it up.

Yes, the article demonstrates a good grasp of the debt, but still winds up twisting the analysis. To use their own reasoning, the govt could "pay off" the borrwed trust funds and simply have a 14.3T debt straight up. OK, doesn't that pretty much make clear that there is no smoke and mirrors to make the intragovernmental debt go away without pain? It's the same as the so-called public portion of the debt. Or you could just repudiate the intragovernmental debt and declare that social security, as well as the dozens of other smaller trust funds, all have zero dollars. How would that work for the ratings agencies and the bean counters?

Another place where the twisted thinking is evident, is where intragovernmental debt is called a wash, because one side has an asset and one a liability. Well, guess, what? I had a hundred dollars. My wife took it went to the hair salon. Now I have an IOU on a scrap of paper. Yep, I have an asset, and my wife has a liability. But before the trip to the hair salon, I had a BETTER asset, and my wife had NO liability. As a household, we went from having a $100 asset - cash, to a marginal asset in the form of an IOU, that is offset by a liability. Anyone who want to call that a wash, with the implication that you are no worse off than before, is either daft or intentionally trying to pull the wool.

ShekGrinch: You are SOOOOO right. This crowd bows at the altar (perhaps every day) of the New York Times. They're therefore hopelessly entrenched into the NYT mantra of delusional bashing of fiscal conservatives -- and they bash (they actually change the subject) any idea of reducing federal govt spending. They act as if the $3.7T CANNOT be cut by 20% across the board, or the economy will come crashing down. They're temporarily right, that the economy will see a reduction in GDP -- but they're permanently wrong, because this insane spending of nearly $4T/year just be the fed govt is moving us towards the 'cliff'.

But you're right, and I had a LOL moment reading your comment!!!!!

By the way, they always quote articles from the NYT -- have they ever seen how bizarre/socialist/America-hating Arthur Punch Sulzberger is? He's totally divorced from reality -- check out his graduation speech at SUNY ___ (?) on youtube 3 yrs ago. What a sick lecture he gave the students, on how 'our generation' ruined America and these young ones have to fix it. He got it 180 degrees wrong, but it wasn't the place to spout out his delusions.

Tatupu: Those requirements on banks and S&Ls were regulations created by Clinton's minions in 1994,1995 -- Barney Frank and Andrew Cuomo. They were regulations to the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act, to put 'teeth' in the act and require loans to poor people. The regulatory process completely sidestepped the Republican Congress in 1995 when they became effective.
I read the regulations in 2008 when the bubble burst. They were only 40 pages or so, of mass-destruction though.

Troy: They were regulations to the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act to ramp up lending to poor people. As regulations, they therefore sidestepped the legislative process. Clinton knew he couldn't get a Republican Congress to pass a law to require banks and S&L's to make millions of high-risk loans, so he back-doored it.
I read the regulations in 2008 when the bubble burst. They were something out of Politburo Russia -- top/down control over the economy -- over-regulation to the extreme. Actually forcing every bank and S&L to prove they made correct fractions of loans, or else they'd have a huge penalty. So they did it. And thus began the bundling of 'troubled assets' to sell, a creative game to get the junk off-loaded to another sucker by whatever creative means possible. Oh, and Fannie/Freddie were eventual-willing buyers of much of it too. That became part of the 'game'. Thanks for nothing, Barney & BJ (and Jimmy Carter for CRA) for the idea!

sbourg says

Tatupu: Those requirements on banks and S&Ls were regulations created by Clinton’s minions in 1994,1995 — Barney Frank and Andrew Cuomo. They were regulations to the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act, to put ‘teeth’ in the act and require loans to poor people. The regulatory process completely sidestepped the Republican Congress in 1995 when they became effective.
I read the regulations in 2008 when the bubble burst. They were only 40 pages or so, of mass-destruction though.

#1--You need to look up the definition of fact.

#2 I am very familiar with the CRA. It most definitely did not require 20% of the loans to the lowest earning 20% of the people in the area. And it has been thoroughly debunked as a significant cause of the housing bubble.

I'm beginning to think woggs is correct about you.

shrekgrinch says

Destroyed the economy

Yeah but that was before, Regan invented "During economic distress, Corporations get to do what ever they want, and regulators and All things good and decent will turn a blind eye".
Now the worse shape the economy is in, the more creative in thievery, fraud and deceit, Corporations get to be, with unadulterated impunity.

tatupu70 says

made us look weak and pathetic to our enemies,

They crashed a Helicopter, which also coincides with the last time America gotten a transparent full dope on a Military operation, of any measure.

How come the Battle of Mogadishu a complete and utterly failure, that makes the helicopter crash in Iran rescue mission look like a huge success in comparison, didn't ding George H.W. Bush's credibility?

I wish we could bet $10,000 with some agreed upon judge. That's the last I will say on it. BSing pos.

This CRA thing is a ridiculous GOP sideshow. The "stick" was Nerf. The carrot was a green light to loot and pillage in the trillions. Ignore the CRA "truthers", just like Birthers nothing you can say or do will convince them. They truly believe that bankers had to be FORCED into behaving like drunken frat boys.

sbourg says

And dude, the growing size of the national debt is the result of annual deficit spending. That’s why the Natl Debt grows at the rate of $1.7T per year now — I guess you’re ok with that — oh wait, you want to tax the rich more so it’s only $1.6T/year.

Actually, if I were King I'd cut military spending down to $450B/yr (leaving us with the USMC, USAF, and a bunch of SSNs essentially), move everyone in the country into Medicare (like Communist Canada or Soviet Japan). That would be about a trillion in savings right there.

I'd then slap a trillion dollars of land value taxes at the state level to pay for the rest of the spending. I actually think income taxes do not need to be as progressively set as others do. There are other, better sources of revenue than incomes.

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/friedman-milton_interview-1978.html

sbourg says

Truth is that tax rates have major effects on behavior

Sorta, but the tax cut jihadis have to argue in the abstract since the Democratic tax rise of 1990-1993 gave us the prosperous 1990s (contrary to their many dire predictions) and the Bush tax cuts of 2001-2003 gave us the ruinous bubble boom bust (contrary to their many rosy promises).

sbourg says

But revenues and total spending in the economy recovered. The reduced tax rates for all, helped.

The bubble boom of 2003-2007 was entirely consumer debt driven. See, here's a chart for you:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=rX

The blue line is YOY consumer and corporate debt increase. You can see it go to TWO TRILLION dollars a year during the bubble peak, and then collapse in 2008-2009.

The red line is YOY increase in government revenue.

The powers that be were essentially running a Ponzi scheme 2001-2005 to cover the looting of my country via their tax cuts, cheap-wage globalism, and ruinous neocon military adventurism.

it was quite a con, and probably destroyed this place. Thanks, Ralph.

I sold my house on Craigslist. No Realtors (R), no lawyers, just me, the buyer and the escrow company. I priced my house about 3% below comps (that would have gone to the Realtor (R)) and found a buyer in three days. Who needs them? Not me.

I'm not sure if I understand where that article is going. Maybe someone can clear it up for me.

What I got from it is that big brother keeps on doing financial gimmicks to borrow money against trust funds such as SS and Medicare and spends it handing it out to special interests, while simply covering it with promises to pay back which are abbreviated as "SIB's". At some point the debt will be due, so they will just print more "SIB's" and borrow against it creating inflation?

ChrisLA says

At some point the debt will be due, so they will just print more “SIB’s” and borrow against it creating inflation?

Partially. Congress cut the FICA tax 2% and is just printing SIBs to replace OASDI's loss of FICA revenue.

Congress will either need to raise taxes, cut spending somewhere else, or borrow when OASDI redeems their "SIBs" to the Treasury.

"Inflation" is really neither here nor there WRT the increasing burden of SSTF redemptions. There are many greater cost-drivers around compared to the ~$100B/yr imbalance in the social security system.

Eg, Medicare cost inflation, the $600B/yr trade deficit:

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/05/trade-deficit-increased-to-482-billion.html

social security is way down the list of things this nation has to fix.

FHA financed offers?

And what does the scheduled conforming loan limit reset look like for concord (not that it should affect this sale - just curious)

ChrisLA says

big brother keeps on doing financial gimmicks to borrow money against trust funds such as SS and Medicare and spends it handing it out to special interests

Also, the game of "big brother" borrowing and spending FICA payers' retirement savings is just about up.

I'm not entirely hopeful that the "special interests" that have benefitted so greatly from "big brother" spending largesse are going to be able to be rounded up to contribute their share to restore the national fisc.

The "special interests" are takers, not givers, and operate at the highest levels of efficiency and effectiveness in protecting their wealth and shaping the public debate about where we are now and how we got here.

FICA payers, on the other hand, are miseducated, overstimulated, lambs to the slaughter.

HF is OK if you know what you're doing. The cite was a scan from an article from Feb 1979 so I think it's reliable as history.

As for odd/even, I dimly remember them in Salinas in 1979-80, but I was too young for the Nixon days, I don't recall a single goddamn thing about the LBJ/Nixon era, other than having my big wheel stolen.

googling, I see it was started in "several counties" in California, May 9, 1979:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01Straight.html

Here's a good cite:

http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=504550

"President Carter's request for congress approval of standby gasoline rationing plan and implementation of California's reported. "

Politicians weren't really of the mindset of letting the market work things out in the 1970s. Back then we though government should intervene and offer price controls and central-planning approaches.

These days, we've swung the other way, and thus we have gas over $4 again. I think I prefer the market way though, even if it its random-walk nature blindsides everyone.

Let the resource owners charge what the market will bear. Government's role should be assisting other, competing capitalists in destroying Big Oil's business model.

Troy says

The “special interests” are takers, not givers, and operate at the highest levels of efficiency and effectiveness in protecting their wealth and shaping the public debate about where we are now and how we got here

It definitely pays to have friends in high places.

shrekgrinch says

1) I never said that Hawaii never had any Republican officials. I said that the Dems dominate the state’s politics and have for some time. But your shitty reading comprehension skills can’t tell the difference. Ooops! Do you see any need to continue?

Actually, you said that no Republican official had ever said Obama's was born in Hawaii. Which was wrong, of course.

shrekgrinch says

2) What does this have to do with proving that Keynesianism is REAL?

Nothing. If you had better reading comprehension, you would have realized that I was replying to your comment asking me to show that you had been proven wrong. Which I did.

shrekgrinch says

WE DO KNOW what it was supposed to be a lot higher with regards to Keynesianism’s prediction of how the so-called money multiplier was supposed to work.

Obviously you don't undestand it. It's supposed to be a lot higher than if there was no stimulus. And there is NO evidence that it wasn't.

shrekgrinch says

Translation: You’ve been full of shit all this time about some claim you insisted that I was wrong about and that is the closest you are going to get to admit to it.

Actually, no. Nice try. You may define Nobel prize as the original ones from his will. The vast majority of people disagree with you. As usual. Doesn't mean you are correct.

TBH, I think 85% of the Dems around are on the take, too. The honest operators are few and far between -- Jerry Brown, that socialist up in Vermont, Feingold, maybe Howard Dean, maybe not.

The over-arching problem is that the capitalism-as-we-know-it is highly centrifugal -- the rich accrue more power unto themselves over time, since capital brings wonderful feedback effects to gain more capital, and lack of capital also has feedback effects of further impoverishing people morally, socially, and even intellectually.

Trump could blow up his financial life repeatedly but had the connections and resources to bounce back. One guy holding up a liquor store once out of desperation is basically fucked for the rest of his life.

Be that as it may, since we live in a putatively "Democratic" -- yes, it's technically a Constitutional Representative Republic with Strong Executive and semi-Independent Judiciary -- government, the "inherent contradictions" of capitalism enables politicians, along with a generous reading of the US Constitution, to implement popular solutions to the failures of capitalism to provide an equitable distribution of the fruits of our productive enterprise to all.

I am anti-government, but I am anti-anarchism more.

I'd like to think all the Georgist stuff would be enough to restore balance in the system, but I doubt it.

The bottom line is that we are an immensely productive people, able to collectively produce much more wealth than we collectively consume each year. There's no reason for things to be so fucked now, it's our systems of thought and law that are fucked, not anything at the physical layer.

RE Agent cartel always thinks they can fool the bank/buyer by not submitting all offers. Banks can and will become educated as the current day savvy buyers. Right now the market is in a very slow process of downward slide, banks know that, so they are delaying the sale. An interest rate spike of 0.5 to 1% could shift all the players in RE market in an all together new mode.

sbourg says

Speaking of “needs” — this country needs fiscal conservatism, not bigger federal govt. Democrats have run most major cities for decades, and now certain states for decades like California, Illinois, Mass, NY, NJ — how’z that working out — the Democrat big-govt experiment?

Let's see... Decades, huh? Let's do a fact check. Shall we?

Governors since 1970 by party:
California: 4 Republican, 3 Democratic (fact)
Illinois: 3 Republican, 3 Democratic (fact)
Massachusetts: 5 Republican, 4 Democratic (fact)
New York: 3 Republican, 5 Democratic* (fact)
New Jersey: 7 Republican, 6 Democratic (fact)

I put an asterisk by New York because, alas, that is the only state in your list that has had a majority of Democratic Governors since 1970. (fact)

The rest of the states you mentioned are either dead even in the balance between Republican and Democratic Governors since 1970 or have had more Republican Governors since 1970. (fact)

So your belief that Democrats ran the states of "California, Illinois, Mass, NY, NJ" "for decades" is patently false. The facts prove this (see above).

As to your belief that Democrats have run the majority of major US Cities "for decades," you are correct factually in the main. This all depends on which cities you consider "major" though.:

Major Cities and their Mayors since 1970 by party:
New York: 2 Republican, 3 Democratic, + 1 Republican turned Democratic (fact)
Los Angeles: 1 Republican, 4 Democratic (fact)
Chicago: 0 Republican, 8 Democratic (fact)

(In my opinion (belief) Chicago is a major success story. I'm from there, I should know.)

So, I'd count at least one (Chicago) of these 3 major cities that have been run by Democrats since 1970 as a success story (belief). And if I include New York as a success story, that makes two success stories (belief). But New York has been revitalized by both Democratic and Republican mayors since 1970 (belief).

I consider LA a mess by any standard, but that's me (belief). I'm somewhat biased in that regard.

By the way, this is what happens when you get facts and beliefs confused. Facts are things that are objectively true "ipso facto." Beliefs are things that are subjectively true and they tend to depend on the point of view of each person. You can look up the facts that I displayed here by going through Wikipedia or any other convenient source and looking up "Lists of Governors" or "Lists of Mayors" for any of the states and cities mentioned here.

You can thank me for educating you on the difference between facts and beliefs later. I'm sure you will.

Additionally, California, MA, NY, NJ are very big net donors to the "red states" at the Federal level.

NJ sees 39% of its Federal tax revenue siphoned off by the red-state charity cases, CA & NY are at 22%, MA is at 18%.

http://scatter.wordpress.com/2009/02/16/red-state-blue-state-welfare-state-subsidizing-state/

Simcha,

The self-described "fiscal conservative" crowd will always disavow many Republicans and consider them equivalent to Democrats. Lacking the ability to actually found a party that is sufficiently pure to their ideology, they attach themselves to GOP and consistently vote GOP whether the candidates agree with them or not.

Vicente says

Simcha,
The self-described “fiscal conservative” crowd will always disavow many Republicans and consider them equivalent to Democrats. Lacking the ability to actually found a party that is sufficiently pure to their ideology, they attach themselves to GOP and consistently vote GOP whether the candidates agree with them or not.
“Eagles are dandified vultures” - Teddy Roosevelt

Ah, yes... That's right... Even when they are factually wrong they claim to be "correct." Again it seems that they have the definitions of "fact" and "belief" confused.

The Seven Golden Keys For Successful Debate for conservatives:

1) Make gross generalizations about any topic you wish whether you know anything about that topic or not.
2) Repeat these gross generalizations even when those pesky liberals show them to be untrue factually. Never let the facts get in your way.
3) Claim that the liberals haven't proven anything no matter how many facts they throw at you.
4) Make claims that liberals are mentally ill, stupid, ignorant, lazy, stoned, deaf, dumb, blind, or all of the above.
5) Repeat your original gross generalizations again while complaining that the "liberal media" maligns you.
6) Even when you have "lost" the argument, claim that you have "won."
7) Go back to Step 1.

There is a special "Silver Key" for both John Boehner and Glenn Beck called "5a." It reads as follows, "5a) Make ridiculously and wildly emotional statements and cry like the little bitch that you are."

And, finally, the "Platinum Truth" for conservatives is a quote from Charlie Sheen, “I’m not bi-polar, I’m bi-winning. I win here and I win there.”

shrekgrinch says

Do you know what happend in 1913? The Federal Reserve was created by the banksters to put the US government into as much debt as possible along with the rest of us. And, the Constitution was amended to pave the way for a non-apportioned income tax…to pay JUST THE INTEREST on said debt. The two went hand in hand.

Therein lies the real reason for deficit spending by BOTH parties and why the entire apparatus is geared towards making everyone a slave to debt. The private bankers of the Fed are running this country, and until the Fed is dismantled, we will never have true freedom.

ChrisLA says

What got us out of recession was simply the business cycle

largely incorrect (since the business cycle broke in 1991 if not earlier), and, while we are technically "out of recession", we are still in recessionary territory. The pullback stopped getting worse, but with unemployment at 9%+ this is still a shitty economic environment.

Thing are still worse now than the 1970s recessions:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/UNRATE

not the Obama hand outs. Besides who received the $800 billion?

The stimulus was distributed as follows:

$240B in tax cuts to individuals
$50B in tax cuts to corps
$125B in medicare support to states/COBRA payments to unemployed
$25B for IT modernization of health sector
$100B to local education
$40B for extended EUC + $100/mo extra
$20B for more foodstamps
$14B to seniors
$105B for infrastructure projects
$27B for energy projects
$15B for housing projects
$8B to science projects
$4B to law enforcement

Troy where do you get that list from? And is there one for bank bailouts?

The above numbers were from Wikipedia's ARRA article.

The bailouts were done when Obama was only the Democratic nominee for president. At any rate, the net TARP cost is allegedly $25B or so.

Any economic plan that doesn't dramatically cut defense spending is not a serious plan. Between spending and interest on money we borrowed to blow things up we're spending $1.2 trillion a year on "defense".

Increasing taxes on the rich and gutting the military is the only way out of this.

It's not that hard.

Bob Ehrlich was a Repub Governor here in Maryland from '02 to '06 but since the Democrats controlled the StateHouse in Annapolis, he got NOWHERE with any fiscal sanity agenda. Same is true for Calif under Ahnold -- the Sacramento StateHouse railroaded him and he caved to the Democrat government and their unions.
And on and on.
And as for cities -- ditto -- run by Democrats almost exclusively and they have killed themselves with too much govt, too many govt 'ees, too many taxes, etcetera, etcetera. Democrats ruin cities and states that they control -- Illinois, Mass, NJ, NY, Calif.

"Listen doofus:" deleted from previous comment.

Simchaland: It's worth repeating. Democrats in control of states and giving in to the govt 'ees unions, adding too many govt jobs, giving too much pay and bfts to govt 'ees, have ruined California, L.A., SF, Illinois, Chicago, Mass, Boston, NY, NYC, PA, Philadelphia, Wash Dc, Baltimore, MI, Detroit, and on and on. Occasional Repub governors are and have been powerless to change the screwed up systems of these entities. You're making idiotic arguments to think otherwise. Ipsofacto yourself.

Troy: Are you seriously stating that Democrat-controlled California and most of its major cities, are well-run by the Democrats, fiscally? And that the business and regulatory environment is 'friendly' to the private sector? Because if you are, I think you need a shrink.

Vicente: The GOP is far from perfect, but Democrats are outright disasters to individual economic freedom and openly hostile to the private sector. That's been fairly well proven by experience and actions by Democrats. The Democrats in charge at the federal level now -- Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, are extreme Leftists, almost socialists in their zeal to control business environment, raise taxes for folks already paying huge taxes, grow govt to extremes never before seen, flood the system with entitlements, inhibit production of our own energy, socialise the health-care system, and on and on. They are outright disasters for our country right now, and it's almost too obvious to state it. But most Democrats don't want to admit it, or worse, don't even see it for what it is.

sbourg says

Vicente: ......The Democrats in charge at the federal level now — Obama, Reid, and Pelosi, are extreme Leftists, almost socialists in their zeal to control business environment,

I'm not sure how you can be an "extreme leftist" but "almost socialist". This puzzles me.

raise taxes for folks already paying huge taxes, grow govt to extremes never before seen, flood the system with entitlements, inhibit production of our own energy, socialise the health-care system, and on and on. They are outright disasters for our country right now, and it’s almost too obvious to state it. But most Democrats don’t want to admit it, or worse, don’t even see it for what it is.

Bzztt. Wrong, taxes are at new lows not seen in our lifetimes.

But, why do I bother? I could post a chart showing this clearly, but you wouldn't look at it. You'd glide on to the next fact-free talking point.

My point to Simchaland by the way, was that arguing states are in Republican hands as much as Democrats, will only be hand-waved away. People just like youself will say "oh those Republicans were all RINO they don't count."

sbourg says

And Obama wanted to raise taxes in December ‘10 on millions of higher-paid families.

Maybe they NEED to go up.

We have a DEFICIT to close. Which seems VERY important to GOP sometimes, then not at all others.

Back when I voted for Reagan in the 1980's and throughout my decades with the GOP the argument was:

Top-quintile tax cuts will grow wealth and it MUST trickle down.

Was it a promise? It was cast as utterly inevitable, like a law of gravity.

However 3 decades of lowering the top bracket steadily down hasn't achieved anything of the sort. The lower brackets didn't even get table scraps. Instead of being showered with cash they were showered with opportunities to borrow money and enslave themselves.

Perhaps the premise was flawed is the conclusion I came to, which heralded my exit from GOP.

Maybe Richy Rich didn't elect to give his employees a raise or hire more people or build the business. Maybe instead they plowed it into passive money-making circle jerks like the Wall Street Casino, or other ways in which they could further grow their wealth. Which sound great at first, until it becomes apparent the ONLY purpose of that Big Money is to get even Bigger. It becomes a bottomless craving, a Finance Monster with no soul that is perfectly OK with letting Tiny Tim expire of rickets if it would save them a dime.

Most people never seem to examine their assumptions though.

Side note. I wouldn't waste my time bidding on anything right now. I heard it directly from a Bankster. They are bracing themselves for a major housing slump this year. Supposedly, the news came from their internal analysts who brief them weekly, monthly, or whenever. My guess is that the dollar will be collapsed and the housing market will crumble to the likes that will leave everyone twiddling their thumbs. OH, THE POOR SHEEPLE.