patrick.net

Every time I've asked any RE agent anything, every answer I get has a disclaimer that tells you that if you are serious about it, you have to seek a lawyer, accountant, check with the city, etc.

Anything else, I can read it on their MLS sheet myself. There's no info an RE agent can give you that you cannot get for free elsewhere. Their answers have zero liability and accountability.

If you look on sites like Zillow or Trulia, you see forums where RE agents gather up to ask other agents questions because a buyer asked them a question that they couldn't answer via googling. I can ask them myself and get a zero liability/accountability answer from them as well.

vain says

Their answers have zero liability and accountability.

Agreed. The system is broken and needs to be changed.

Let's change it.

joshuatrio says

What exactly would you provide... Say I'm on the market for a place, and primarily interested in two properties. What benefit will your services be - how many hours of consulting am I looking at at? Residential purchases only, not flipping/renting or investing.

You may not need any help. Or, maybe you just want to talk through your thoughts with someone to help you make a decision. Discussing pros/cons and see if there is anything you are missing. Maybe that's only an hour.

Or, maybe you want to pick my brain about which house might be a better long-term investment or rental property. Not that I necessarily know all the answers, but I can help you consider factors that maybe you hadn't thought about before.

As an example I do work with a group on investors who buy my time to review properties they are considering purchasing - mostly as flips but sometimes as long-term. For them, it's worth buying a few hours of my time to get my opinion of the deal.

gregpfielding says

Or, maybe you want to pick my brain about which house might be a better long-term investment or rental property. Not that I necessarily know all the answers, but I can help you consider factors that maybe you hadn't thought about before.

As a previous poster stated, there is the disclaimer. And if you are serious, you should go speak to a financial advisor.

Paying for Realtor advice is like having to pay to get onto a used car dealership lot to see what they've got, and to speak to a used car salesman.

bighorse says

Paying for Realtor advice is like having to pay to get onto a used car dealership lot to see what they've got, and to speak to a used car salesman.

Agreed. This has been the problem. The only way to change the dynamic is to remove the commission element.

You are right about the car salesman - there is no way you'll get fair advice in that scenario. HOWEVER, I bet if you paid that guy for an hour of their time after work to give you some advice on buying a used car, you would learn a lot.

bighorse says

As a previous poster stated, there is the disclaimer. And if you are serious, you should go speak to a financial advisor.

This is part of the core problem with the real estate industry. Financial advisers don't generally understand the real estate market or all of the considerations involved. They certainly wouldn't know anything more about when to buy or sell than any other person.

And, lawyers know a lot about whatever type of law they practice, but very few actually know much about real estate transactions (though they probably all think they do).

Like it or not, we real estate agents give contract/negotiation advice (legal) and market advice (investment). I agree that most agents are completely inept and unqualified to do either. However, us "good ones" are uniquely qualified to give you great advice on both fronts because we are working hard in the trenches every day.

If you need legal advise, see a lawyer. If you need real estate advice, see me.

gregpfielding says

Like it or not, we real estate agents give contract/negotiation advice (legal)

gregpfielding says

If you need legal advise, see a lawyer. If you need real estate advice, see me.

Uh... can you now see how this pseudo-legal authority is confusing many of the posters in this thread?

"Those who can't do, teach."

How again are you an expert? If your opinion is so valued when it comes to housing, I wonder why you aren't out there making a killing off the housing market with your expert knowledge of investment properties?

Or could it be that getting paid $150/hr to guesstimate with zero repercussions is the ultimate scam? I pay my doctor XXX/hr, but what Greece does doesn't affect his prognosis for my body, nor is he off the hook is he prescribes medicine that ruins my life.

But then you'll have to take peoples money to just tell them they are making the biggest mistake of there lives. So once paid You'll just say "Run RUN RUN!"

or" this house is the biggest F'n money suck pit I've ever seen.
you know the truth."

or "you'll just be divorced anyways in 10 -15 years so way waste the f'n money now."

people really pay to be lied to these days or to be told what they want to hear IMHO.

so really you'll just be lying through your teeth also.But WTF this is America.

StoutFiles says

How again are you an expert? If your opinion is so valued when it comes to housing, I wonder why you aren't out there making a killing off the housing market with your expert knowledge of investment properties?

Because there isn't a killing to be made out there. Nobody is making a lot of money in real estate - selling, investing, whatever.

I wasn't suggesting that I had some magic plan you could subscribe to and make your millions flipping houses. You're right - if I did I wouldn't be here.

Katy Perry says

But then you'll have to take peoples money to just tell them they are making the biggest mistake of there lives.

Maybe. If they are. Wouldn't you be happy to have paid a few hundred bucks to avoid the biggest mistakes in your life?

Katy Perry says

people really pay to be lied to these days

You are right. They do. Sellers typically don't hire the listing agent who tells them the truth, they hire the agent who tells them what they want to hear. It's a disingenuous relationship from the get-go.

You want to blame the agent for over-promising, but part of the blame goes to the sellers for not seeing through it.

terriDeaner says

Uh... can you now see how this pseudo-legal authority is confusing many of the posters in this thread?

The threshold for needing an actual lawyer is hard to describe, but you know it when you see it.

Like porn.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says

Or just go to an open house with some friends, grab the Realtor®, chain him to a truck and drag him to his death and sell the video to MTV!

Hate the game, not the playa. Most agents are clueless, but still decent people.

This service is completely reasonable.

I see endless clueless noobs posting on this forum 'should I buy this deal its a 3/2 blah blah blah'.

As you can see from this very thread - the 'free' advice on the internet is mostly useless to the clueless.

Getting an education in any subject matter is costly in time, money, heartache.

gregpfielding says

Forever is a long time. 2-3 more years (hopefully) before we get close to a bottom.

At least you admit that we are off from the bottom.

bubblesitter says

At least you admit that we are off from the bottom.

http://bayarearealestatetrends.com/2011/09/29/housing-head-and-shoulders-revisited/

gregpfielding says

You want to blame the agent for over-promising, but part of the blame goes to the sellers for not seeing through it.

That's what we do. If the house burns down, we sue the fire department. If the economy has been tanking, we impeach the president. A flat tire ? That used car salesman KNEW it was a bad tire.
Real Estate prices became detached from reality due to OUR OWN greed, and seeing as how the market is always right (at that particular moment), WE should assume responsibility for our own actions. But it is less painful to blame others.
On your prediction of two years +/- to hit bottom, Is there a basis or some contributing factors to anticipate the time to buy ?
Unlike the Stock market it seems much more difficult to convince home sellers of NEW \ LEANER market conditions.

TMAC54 says

Is there a basis or some contributing factors to anticipate the time to buy ?

Take a look at these charts: http://bayarearealestatetrends.com/2011/09/29/housing-head-and-shoulders-revisited/

Prices here in the Bay Area have already begun the next leg down. Buyers are drying up and listing prices are dropping.

As far as the time to buy... It'll be tough to pinpoint the exact bottom, but we won't be there until nearly all of the foreclosures - get worked through. If government gets out of the way, that could happen within a few years. If they insist on "helping" people keep their homes, then it could take another 5-6 years.

Check out http://bayarearealestatetrends.com/2011/09/02/5-ways-obama-can-fix-housing-next-week/

Remember, the market started to shift in the fall of 2005 - that's when the buyers first hesitated. We're already a full 6 years into this mess. 2-3 years is my minimum guess.

One thing is for sure: when prices do hit bottom, they aren't going to rocket back up again. I would rather buy 6-12 months after prices bottom than potential years before it does.

Greg,

as long as you are honest with the public about current real estate trends - your service could definitely be of value to the right person.

You seem to be of good character and if this is a way to diversify your business, go for it. You can always adjust the little things (pricing, services) as things progress.

May want to put together a business plan, or a list of topics/ideas - depending on what service people are interested in. Good luck !

Thank you to everyone here for your feedback and support. Hopefully it catches on.

As you guys come across people who could use some help, please send them my way!
http://bayarearealestatetrends.com/

Greg,
Do you know how to calculate IRR, NPV, Replacement Cost, Intrinsic Value, perform Feasibility Study, Market Analyses, understand Risk Premium, Structural Financing and Future Value?
If not,… you can be consultant for your mom and your friends only.

REpro says

Do you know how to calculate IRR, NPV, Replacement Cost, Intrinsic Value, perform Feasibility Study, Market Analyses, understand Risk Premium, Structural Financing and Future Value?

Golly gee... maybe I'll have to refer all of that hard stuff to you.

gregpfielding says

Buyers are drying up and listing prices are dropping.

+ the interested buyers are disappointed by loan denial from banks,that's why most offers accepted homes are right back on market.

gregpfielding says

they aren't going to rocket back up again

Right. Not until banks bring LIAR loans.

gregpfielding says

attorneys, therapists, accountants, doctors, healers, decorators, and other niche professionals.

If I outsourced my life to all these experts I'd be in a whole lotta mo' trouble by now.

Its a good idea how many hours would it take to consult me on how to sell my million dollar home without paying the 3% commission?

toothfairy says

Its a good idea how many hours would it take to consult me on how to sell my million dollar home without paying the 3% commission?

The problem is that while I could (and would) give you a discount, I couldn't simply be an hourly adviser in a transaction. The reason is Fiduciary Responsibility.

My job would be to do my best to protect your interests in every aspect of the deal. Not only does this equal quite a few hours, but I can't tell you up front exactly how many it would be.

In short, even if you only paid me for 3 hours, I would be at fault in any lawsuit - even if it was brought by the other party - if I didn't do a "complete" job.

I agree with everyone here that this is messed up. The industry needs a major overhaul.

But, if you are serious about selling, call me.

Greg, I think your service will be of value. I will strongly consider it and I've bookmarked your page.

The used car salesman after hours is a great analogy.

Besides, paying $150 to prevent someone from buying a $500,000 piece of shit seems like a good deal to me.

gregpfielding says

The problem is that while I could (and would) give you a discount, I couldn't simply be an hourly adviser in a transaction. The reason is Fiduciary Responsibility.

I am not sure how fiduciary responsibility would prevent you from taking an hourly wage instead of a commission.

gregpfielding says

My job would be to do my best to protect your interests in every aspect of the deal.

The commission system --for numerous reasons posted in this forum-- only incentivises a real estate agent to act against their clients best interest.

gregpfielding says

In short, even if you only paid me for 3 hours, I would be at fault in any lawsuit - even if it was brought by the other party - if I didn't do a "complete" job.

Do a complete job then. Charge a minimum rate to sell a house.

gregpfielding says

I agree with everyone here that this is messed up. The industry needs a major overhaul.

Yes, I think we all agree that this is true, but I don't know that the answer is to pay real estate agents $150/hour so they can advise us to give them a commission on buying or selling a house.

anonanon says

The used car salesman after hours is a great analogy.

It is a great analogy. I am sure that the slimy used car salesman would be happy to "consult" on car purchases for you in exchange for $150/hour. I am sure that his advise would be unbiased when he tells you that your best option is to come down to the lot and buy a car from him.

gregpfielding says

I'm one of the good ones - someone you wish your friends, neighbors, and family would listen to.

A word of advice. This makes you sound like Christine O'Donnell in her "I am not a witch" ad.

I am not saying that I think you are being dishonest, but just letting you know that nothing smacks of dishonesty more than someone saying, "Hey, you can trust me" or "I am not a crook" or "I am one of the good ones".

Instead just say what you think, post supporting links to your blog on topics. Let others come to the conclusion that you are "one of the good ones".

leoj707 says

This makes you sound like Christine O'Donnell in her "I am not a witch" ad.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071853/quotes

Sir Bedevere: There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
Peasant 1: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
Sir Bedevere: Tell me. What do you do with witches?
Peasant 1: Burn them.

Sir Bedevere: And what do you burn, apart from witches?
Peasant 1: More witches.
Peasant 2: Wood.
Sir Bedevere: Good. Now, why do witches burn?
Peasant 3: ...because they're made of... wood?

Sir Bedevere: Good. So how do you tell whether she is made of wood?
Peasant 1: Build a bridge out of her.
Sir Bedevere: But can you not also build bridges out of stone?
Peasant 1: Oh yeah.

Sir Bedevere: Does wood sink in water?
Peasant 1: No, no, it floats!... It floats! Throw her into the pond!
Sir Bedevere: No, no. What else floats in water?
King Arthur: A Duck.

Sir Bedevere: ...Exactly. So, logically...
Peasant 1: If she weighed the same as a duck... she's made of wood.
Sir Bedevere: And therefore...
Peasant 2: ...A witch!

B.A.C.A.H. says

Sir Bedevere: ...Exactly. So, logically...
Peasant 1: If she weighed the same as a duck... she's made of wood.
Sir Bedevere: And therefore...
Peasant 2: ...A witch!

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

B.A.C.A.H. says

A word of advice. This makes you sound like Christine O'Donnell in her "I am not a witch" ad.

But I'm not a witch...

I agree it sounds silly. Real estate pros here are guilty until proven innocent, so that was my plea to hold off judgement.

robertoaribas says

egomania much?

Yes.

leoj707 says

Yes, I think we all agree that this is true, but I don't know that the answer is to pay real estate agents $150/hour so they can advise us to give them a commission on buying or selling a house.

Agreed. It's a problem within the whole business model.

If we could start over, agents should be paid hourly, just like an accountant or lawyer. The good ones charge more, the weak ones, less.

To answer your question about how many hours of actual work involved in selling a house. A typical sale might look like this:

3 hours initial setup and getting property on the market.

1-4 hours for the first week of follow-up with agents, potential broker’s tour, and marketing.

1 hour each additional week on the market doing market research, checking out new competition, following up on showings, and talking with agents who have interested buyers.

1-3 hours of contract negotiation time once we get an offer.

2-4 hours each week during escrow for inspections, additional disclosures, misc. paperwork, and continued negotiations.

2-4 hours for actual closing and then closing out the file.

The total average hours might be between 28-40 IF the home sells within the first month or so. And, obviously, difficult homes (or difficult clients) require more time and effort.

HOWEVER, I can't (yet) charge you hourly to sell your home. The reason is that the brokerage community would never allow me to do it. I literally couldn't hang my license anywhere with this plan.

Any ideas?

gregpfielding says

HOWEVER, I can't (yet) charge you hourly to sell your home. The reason is that the brokerage community would never allow me to do it. I literally couldn't hang my license anywhere with this plan.

Where in the licensing regs does it say you can't do it?

As far as I know, realtors don't have true fiduciary duties. However, lawyers and accountants do have true fiduciary duties, and they can still charge by the hour.

gregpfielding says

HOWEVER, I can't (yet) charge you hourly to sell your home. The reason is that the brokerage community would never allow me to do it. I literally couldn't hang my license anywhere with this plan.

I am just not familiar enough with what the brokerage community is doing to prevent this type of competitor to have any concrete ideas on the topic, but here are a couple of thoughts.

Aren't there brokers who offer a flat rate to list on the MLS? I am not sure how this then works with the commission. Could you not just do this? 40hrs @ $150/hr = $6,000.

Could you not have an arrangement where you track your hours then refund back to your client the amount that exceeds what was earned per the hourly rate?

corntrollio says

Where in the licensing regs does it say you can't do it?

As far as I know, realtors don't have true fiduciary duties. However, lawyers and accountants do have true fiduciary duties, and they can still charge by the hour.

I am sure greg knows better than I do on this topic, but I think it is more about black balling people who don't go with the program.
-Your bids get ignored
-They don't submit offers on your home listings
-etc.