patrick.net

I'd reconsider them from the ground up. You want to become a citizen, fine here's the path to citizenship by outright ENTRY ALLOWED or perhaps Green Card as an intermediate step.

H1B and other "strings attached" forms should just end. You want farm labor, here's your work visas for this season. You want slave labor for years, let's just bring back slavery or indentured servitude and make second-class citizen a recognized legal reality again.

Mrs. Vicente who only got her citizenship last year says, current immigration policy is a mess of exceptions. She had to jump through a million hoops coming from Europe, so others getting a free pass is galling to her.

I went through about three years of fees and and extra charges, before my wife got her papers. And in all the time we put in one line or another, and meeting with this person and that person, not once did one single person from the INS come out to really check on our arrangement. The whole process was a bureaucratic quagmire to the point of being pointless, other than to seem to generate revenue. And depending on the City you live in, with a large population of one Latin group that works in Government offices. They seem to control the population of competing groups.
A town like Miami where there's a large percent of Cubans, if your spouse isn't Cuban, you'll better be prepared to put in some line time and pay up. Fellow Cubans OTOH seem to get rubber stamped.

The whole process needs to be revamped and stream lined. It should be a better due process, and applicants should be well screened, and a visit or two from INS. If there isn't any legal issues or criminal violations in their home country or here, they should get approved quicker.

That being said, I think they should process all illegal aliens, and give citizenship to those that have a lawful record both here and abroad. Give a deadline for people to register that shows they have applied. Then deport those that haven't after a reasonable time.

Though to effectively deal with the Mexican problem we would also have to legalize drugs.

Or we could just leave things like they are, and pretend there isn't any problem.

I have unique perspective, I have lived in Mexico, I go back often, and have many Mexican friends in Mexico and some illegal alien friends here in California.
Almost all of the Mexican illegals I know are gaming our system and getting rich beyond all their dreams in Mexico.
Maricela: dropped out of high school in Mexico, very pretty. Came up here and worked various jobs for 16 years. Got pregnant by her ex-boyfriend after she was fired for being a flake. Had a storage space full of clothes with the price tags on them.
Lupe: High School drop out from Oaxaca, so illiterate in two languages. Spanish is not her first language, rather she is indigenous. She makes $12/hr and saved up a ton of dough. Has 2 kids and a partner (they never marry here) gets WIC, free health care, etc. She got a TIN years ago and claimed relatives as dependents and got a giant refund, she got back all tax withholding for years.
Marcos: High school dropout from Mexico City. Works illegally as a car mechanic and has bought several cars for several girlfriends. He has no license and drives a used BMW.
Melisio: High school dropout from Oaxaca. Works as busboy in a Mexican restaurant and does yardwork for a guy I know. Pays zero taxes and gets the earned income credit cash because he has two kids. Likes to brag he saved up $80,000 and built a big house down in Oaxaca.
Mavaro: High school dropout from Oaxaca, does yard work. His wife babysits various kids for some young single moms. They've saved up over $70,000 and sent money to construct a big house in Oaxaca. Mavaro's wife has free medical treatment for her various health problems. Mavaro is paid under the table and pays no taxes, nor does his wife.
Mavaro's son: worked in a restaurant, no insurance. He is at stanford for free cancer treatment.
Only 33% of adults in Mexico have graduated high school. Education is simply not highly valued there. My friends are professors and some have told me even at the University level they don't seem to give a shit.
Low wage unskilled labor here in the millions only drives down wages.
The illegal aliens send about $25 billion back to Mexico each year, so this is money taken out of the USA economy and it stimulates the Mexican economy instead.
In the first depression, Hoover sent the foreign workers back to Mexico so that American workers could find jobs.
There are roughly the same number of illegal aliens working here as there are unemployed people, 15 million+ .
Using e-verify would solve the problem. The guys who would lose their jobs that way would go back to Mexico and get by the way they have always gotten by.
Mexicans are not here because they like us. They have been brainwashed that poverty in Mexico is somehow caused by the USA. They believe they are justified coming up here and "taking back" what we "stole" from them.

I don't know where this stands on the political spectrum ...

I have no problem with people wanting to come to this country. We need an Ellis Island-like place on the southern border to process them in and do it right instead of the current mess we have. People can argue all day long about the people already here but would this not be a better path forward that we could agree on? After all, nearly all of us are immigrants.

EightBall says

After all, nearly all of us are immigrants.

Can you elaborate please?

Neanderthals migrated to Europe does this mean all of the Europeans are immigrants too? What about Australia?
Do you even know what the definition of an immigrant is?

The GOP says

Can you elaborate please?

Certainly. Most Americans can trace their ancestry to people who immigrated to the US in the past few centuries. Of course, my great grandmother was native american so while you can leave I can legitimately lay claim. Is that better? You see, some people can use their brain to fully comprehend the meaning behind someone else's statement. I'm sorry that you lack this ability but this is not my concern.

If you prefer, I'll change my statement to:

After all, nearly all of us are descendants of immigrants in the past three hundred years.

If you want to split hairs and be a jackass, that is your prerogative. You knew what I meant.

The GOP says

A town like Miami where there's a large percent of Cubans, if your spouse isn't Cuban, you'll better be prepared to put in some line time and pay up. Fellow Cubans OTOH seem to get rubber stamped.

Not true. Cubans fall under a different immigration law (some people call it the wet foot/dry foot law). That may result in them getting processes quicker depending on how USCIS is doing on processing time, it might not. You're just talking out of your ass here.

In addition, it depends highly on when someone files too. If the background check laws change, then processing could take longer. If the law generally changes (as happens not infrequently with immigration), the processing could take longer or shorter. If you're out of certain field offices, it could take longer or shorter. Listening to what other people tell you about their immigration process is generally not productive because it's not always comparable, although everyone who has been through the process themselves likes to consider themselves an expert. They're not.

The GOP says

If there isn't any legal issues or criminal violations in their home country or here, they should get approved quicker.

You don't know what you're talking about, again. USCIS does extensive background checks.

The GOP says

And in all the time we put in one line or another, and meeting with this person and that person, not once did one single person from the INS come out to really check on our arrangement.

They don't check everybody. They check the people whom they consider are most likely to be committing fraud. This should be simple enough to understand. If it doesn't look fake based on their evaluation, they will probably only do an interview and not a home visit. For supicious people, they may do significantly more and separate the couple at the interview too.

EightBall says

After all, nearly all of us are immigrants.

Yeah, seriously. If you're not 100% Native American, your ancestors came over on foot, on horse, or on a boat, plane, car, or other vehicle. I bet many people who would answer "white" or "Caucasian" on the Census have relatives who were illegal or would be illegal now because, through much of US history, we took in virtually anyone who wanted to immigrate here. In some cases the white relative who snuck across the border would be someone I know's grandfather or great grandfather.

As for the questions, I don't self-identify as liberal, but:
1) the laws are probably less geared towards improving our economy and could be better geared towards that. I've provided information that good immigration reform would raise our GDP significantly and also raise wages for skilled workers.
2) it would be more dangerous if undocumented immigrants couldn't go to ERs. More disease would be spread, and there would be more back alley doctors. This isn't a good thing.
3) it would be stupid not to educate people who want to be educated. The kids never had control over their situation. The DREAM Act is a great idea and should be passed immediately.

EightBall says

Certainly. Most Americans can trace their ancestry to people who immigrated to the US in the past few centuries.

Welp! That's what I thought, are well all Pirates, Slave owners and Explorers too? Are you your own Grandpa?

corntrollio says

The GOP says

There you go Again telling people what there experience was. So you've got this clear understanding how the Miami Cuban political machine works from all the way over there?

corntrollio says

although everyone who has been through the process themselves likes to consider themselves an expert. They're not.

But you are I take it? It doesn't take an expert to see a broke defunct system. Especially the one you're defending. Sure you're not a Liberal, you have the Classic "Because you're not smart enough to understand" retort. Hmm a little superior complex perhaps?

The system is still Janet Reno pulling a balling toddler out of his hiding place in a closet, while enabling dangerous automatic weapon wielding thugs and criminals to run amok in our suburbs.

now!

The GOP says

The system is still Janet Reno pulling a balling toddler out of his hiding place in a closet, while enabling dangerous automatic weapon wielding thugs and criminals to run amok in our suburbs.

Yeah, pretty hard to take you seriously if you're going to say things like that...

So this toddler, did he drive an SUV with shiny rims, or was he a different kind of ballin'?

The GOP says

There you go Again telling people what there experience was.

No, that's silly. You applied for your wife. That's the only experience you have. I have not said anything about that experience, except that I doubt that it was very different from anyone else's who was not suspected of fraud. You *suspected* that Cubans are going through faster for essentially racist reasons, but how would you know? You didn't even know that there were special immigration laws applicable to Cubans before I said so.

The GOP says

So you've got this clear understanding how the Miami Cuban political machine works from all the way over there?

Oh really? The Miami Cuban political machine runs federal immigration offices? Get real. The Cuban lobby is quite strong and does drive some policy efforts, but they have no influence on processing times or office procedures. Again, look up the wet foot/dry foot rule. The reason the Cubans got their stuff processed differently than your wife is because we have special immigration laws for Cubans (e.g. Cuban Adjustment Act). It doesn't have to do with Cubans greasing the wheels, as you're suggesting. We have certain immigration laws that favor Australians too. Look up the E-3 visa. There are also certain programs that apply to certain people from other countries too.

The GOP says

But you are I take it?

I am not an expert, although I know several experts, but I know a significant amount about immigration law and policy and a lot about USCIS, ICE, and EOIR procedures, including current ones. The worst is when people who came here in the 70s try to compare your experience to theirs. They're most certainly not experts. Things have changed significantly since then.

The GOP says

ou have the Classic "Because you're not smart enough to understand" retort.

I didn't say you weren't smart enough to understand. I said that you are giving bad information. There's a difference between the two. It's not even a subtle difference.

I've changed my mind on 3.

3) Give the children free education - English only - my real concern is that people will game the system. Even if people game the system, we're still talking about kids ... and if we didn't have a huge fiscal problem I'd love to give free education to everyone in the world who wanted it, on some education visa or something. It would certainly make us beloved around the world - better to export education than war.

BUT I still would want to follow the kids home ... and deport their parents! Kidding.

The real problem is the jobs - people come and work illegally, without paying taxes and often without knowing and obeying the laws (ie, drivers licenses, insurance)...as long as this continues, kids will be dragged along.

The GOP says

Welp! That's what I thought, are well all Pirates, Slave owners and Explorers too? Are you your own Grandpa?

You have excellent grammar and writing skills. I would venture to guess that you would hear or understand better if you were to pull your head out of your anus. I have a crowbar that you could borrow but you may need to seek the assistance of a medical professional.

Matt.BayArea says

on some education visa or something

Yes, good thing we don't offer those.

Matt.BayArea says

people come and work illegally, without paying taxes

It's not even that undocumented people don't pay taxes. It's that their *employers* don't pay taxes. Pretty much all undocumented people are more than happy to pay taxes on a path to legalization. In fact, it's required.