patrick.net

Paper makes your assets worth nothing. If you don't run the transaction through the people that have the paper your just fucked. PAPER IS LEGAL TENDER OR THE ONLY THING LEGAL FOR TRADE. Yep theres a fucking law that says that. Nice they could declare that and have the slow witted American government sign it into law. So they are the only ones that can print paper that is the only legal means of trade. See I go into Wal-fart with a brand new 45 inch big screen. I want a camera. A small one. They won't do it. Not only that its not legal to do so. So there is a middle man in every fucking trade that happens. Those dickheads with the paper. You know what hey I'll come out there I want in on all your deals hows that? Same thing.

Is it a ripoff? Hey are they building a pipleline from Iraq to Iran to refine oil because all the Iraqi oil refineries got blown up? Did Russia, Iran, Citigroup and America and China get the benifit for the invasion. Stealing Iraq's oil. Save me the bullshit and the trip. Russia has armed the other side of the conflict so has China for years. Everyone knows Russia sent troops into Afganistan to help the Americans and get the Gas pipleines. They could not get the first time they invaded. Its about resources. BUSINESS. Save your shit for the tourists. I am more or less pissed off being treated like a fool along with the rest of the populace. Not withstanding having to hear about it every single day. I am not buying into no one else appears to be either.

See thats sort of like does macy's ask gimbles or does a bear shit in the woods kind of thing.

Anyway since paper is legal tender. Or look tender up. Legal for trade nothing else is. See. Only other thing is quarters. So basically your property has ZERO VALUE FOR TRADE. (Paper looks at your property and says; YOU HAVE NO VALUE, YOUR WORTH NOTHING. ONLY I AM. NOT ONLY THAT IT SAYS I AM ONLY PAPER, AREN'T YOU A BIG SUCKER. YOU CAN'T DRIVE ME, LIVE IN ME OR EAT ME. BUT I CAN STEAL THAT ASSET OR RESOURCE FROM YOU EASILY.) Not unless they get in on the trade of course. Which you have to let them in on the fucking trade. You have no choice. Also if you sat down and figured it out. They get most of it.

Hey typical investor talk. Nothing new. I'll just roll with it. Hey I will too. I can sure say something however. Of course its not worth the time and the effort. Why deal with social issues. It's a waste of time. Hey I'm in the game. I know how we think. No investor can really say they would not like to take a wad of paper and ram it up some mortgage brokers **** though. I'll make out no matter what. Not dependant. It's the life. I guess I have a screw them attitude. Think about those payments while your trying to flip a house sweating sponjuliks while the next payment rolls up on you. Hey roll with it. I'm on hold buying in a negative equity market and have nothing better to do..

I have pondered for weeks now what a sneaky Russian would look like. A vodka swilling. Hey I'm on your side kind of dude. Would he or she be from Colorado or maybe. I have no groupings and have no homeland I guess.

Thing about them is they keep coming and never let on dumping useless garbage all over your lawn for you to clean up. Not that you haven't cleaned the garbage dumped on your lawn at least 20 times. The useless neighbor will throw it right back over the fence again.

A very intelligent crew to say the least. Hip, reasonable. Deal is no one figures they are in it for themselves. Playing as yet another group of philosophical, bullshiters that are nothing but business. Taking in the naive. Meanwhile dumping their useless garbage on someone, intelligent's, front lawn and sidewalk so the naive and trying to understand can trip all over it.

As I figure it to the mountains of Colorado are just a wonderful place to house norad. May not make sense to some. Sure starting to make sense to me.

bgamall4 says

futuresmc says

Democrats only support the Volker Rule because it's politically popular. If they got into power to a point where they could uniformally make it law, they'd water it down so it was meaningless.

Oh, is that why the hedge funds are stuffing Cantor's campaign coffers with record amounts, so they can get rid of Dodd-Frank? It is not Glass-Steagall, but if you repeal it banks will consolidate power further!

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

They are stuffing Republican coffers with record amounts because that is the Washington social contract. You stand up for the 1%, you get money for your next campaign. Democrats are engaged in political theater as much as Republicans. They talk a good game on the Volker Rule, but all the big players that caused the financial crisis will receive 'special exemptions', effectively neutering it. Dodd-Frank was weak, and the Republicans oppose it because that is their role in the drama. Democrats defend it, but if either party ever got a true mandate that couldn't be filabustered or blocked over and over (say over 65% of both houses and the presidency), nothing meaningful would get done regardless.

Buzzards in the desert. Adversaries? Yea sure ok.

China drilling oil in Iraq
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124293064819744203.html

Russia drilling oil in Iraq
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2011/10/26/Russias-Lukoil-starts-drilling-in-Iraq/UPI-35841319628832/

Iran building or to build oil refinery in Iraq
http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2010/10/29/iranian-company-to-build-oil-refinery-in-babil/

Actually in some reports 5 refineries

Iran Iraq sign oil pipeline deal (hey weren't these the guys blowing each others heads off not to long ago)

http://www.irannewsdaily.com/view_news.asp?id=148994

We have successfully established Democracy in Iraq. That is clear. Now I would not call this the spiders sucking the juice out of a fly as some might think. Some not all mind you of them OWS people think this was a war for oil.

So my question here might be is BP and China, Russia, Iran are they all going to send their oil through the Iranian pipeline in Iraq. That goes to the refinery in Iran? Makes sense to me. After all its expensive to ship heavy crude.

After all it was clear to us WHY we invaded. It's nice to have friends along for the ride and oohhhhhh grrrrr those nasty Iranians we have so much trouble with. WHY FUCK DORIS ITS THAT IRAN AND RUSSIA CHINA AXIS AFTER US AGAIN. Iraqi's might just be thinking with friends like this who needs enemies

Hey nuclear garbage adds even more stablity. So the oil concerns can operate without worrying about rebellion. Covers their assets. Keeps the Iraqi people in line.

ArtimusMaxtor says

China drilling oil in Iraq
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124293064819744203.html

Russia drilling oil in Iraq
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2011/10/26/Russias-Lukoil-starts-drilling-in-Iraq/UPI-35841319628832/

Iran building or to build oil refinery in Iraq

what does your post have to do with the main title of this thread?

http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2010/10/29/iranian-company-to-build-oil-refinery-in-babil/

Yep anyway. Thats the bad part. America has to take note of one thing through all of this. Russia and China. BACKED sold arms to all of your so called opposed nations. So how do you feel about having to let in the Chinese and Russians and Iranians being let in to drill and build refineries. You dudes need to wise up just a little. It's a fun game I guess. Except I see you coming up short in a lot of ways though.

They played their part. Except for one thing. They mostly aren't in debt not yet anyway. Nor do the financiers shove them into every war and invasion they can find to put them in where they want to pig out on someones resources. Russia and China have it dicked in this game. It appears to me. You don't

America is in debt up to its neck and beyond. All of your citizens are to. America is the financiers number one BLUNT INSTRUMENT in the world for invading and taking resources. WHY? BECAUSE YOUR IN DEBT REALLY and IN A REALLY BAD WAY. Hey borrower is the slave to the lender. It's a Christian nation. At least a lot of your leaders say so. So in debt. That it makes you wonder where your paychecks come from even.

You look at it like hey survival. Doesn't everyone do it? They don't, you do. Deal is the bastards arm you to the teeth. Have you in debt with PAPER no less. Thats the ridiculous part of all of this. Thing is all those buddies the ones in these deals just might be laughing at you. Because your the ones that have to get shot up in these deals. Because you owe so much.

Your resources EVERYTHING you have in this country has no trade value. What says that LEGAL TENDER. The only authorized legal for trade item in the United States. Legal tender says your resources are worth nothing. Unless legal tender says so.

Contracts, Futures all traded with legal tender. They too dictate the value of your resources. SEE THEY SET VALUE, YOU DON'T. GET ROBBED WHY DON'T YOU. You look at it and you may not understand. They can set the price of anything. Not only that they can print and conduit this money and even keep fucking Macy's open which is a miricle in itself. Bloomingdales. Get real who the fuck goes there. Now since you acknowledge your debt (Which you shouldn't its nothing but a swindel) Simply write laws that forbid usury.

See Moses didn't say you have to participate in usury if your a gentile. Ask any of the 17 Banks in Israel. They could fax you something Im sure.

Don't continue to let Legal Tender devalue all your resources to zero. Legal tender say's hey I'm worth something all your resources aren't because they have no trade value. Only Legal tender does. That alone should scare the shit out of you. Not to mention that the only LEGAL means of trade is under the control of the Federal Reserve WHICH is a private corporation.

To protest government debt-mongering and the resulting enslavement of the 99% to employers and to banks, not to mention the giant Fannie/Freddie/FHA hole the federal budget, let us declare a general house buyer strike.

Ha HA.... seriously Pat you really need to go after the Realtors to make a difference. They inflate the price forcing many to take on higher debt.

"Buy now or be priced out forever"...

"Home values(price) always go up"..

"Foreign buyers are flocking in with cash"..

"Buy now! Etc Etc Etc ....

They done it before, they are doing it today, they WILL BE doing it down the road of time.

thomas.wong1986 says

oreign buyers are flocking in with cash

No they're not, not everywhere at least. Just in The Fortress.

B.A.C.A.H. says

No they're not, not everywhere at least. Just in The Fortress

be sure to lock the gates from the outside when they are all in.

Just to break your dream, this will never work. WHY?

Because as soon as cash-flow make sense, "investors" will jump in and buy. Flip it or rent it out for rental income. It's capitalism. Big fish eat small fishes. There's no turnaround to this. You can boycott all you want, when the price is cheap enough, I'm buying my 3rd property. That's just me.

I agree with you 100%. We can try to be David and get swatted away by this Goliath that is government and the TBTF banks, or we can slip in between the cracks and catch a few crumbs. I have chosen to wait for the crumbs. That being said, I have effectively been "on strike" and will be until housing prices drop enough to make purchasing a good deal for me.

Moses was given the 10 Commandments by The Lord God. One of those commandments said...Thou shalt NOT Covet! Seems to me that the 99%ers are ticked off at the 1%ers because they are coveting what they have. Jealousy runs wild. The problem is not the rich who are already paying over 55% of their pay to the government. The government is where the protests should be focused, not Wall Street. Wall Street could not have created the subprime mess if the government didn't take off the depression era regulations separating bankers from traders. Once that too place (both parties contributed), the government and Fed forced bankers to make bad loans. The bad loans were bundled with good loans and sold as AAA all over the world by Wall Street. The Government and Federal Reserve Bank is the root. The Fed has artificially lowered the interest rates that will eventually go up. Bernanke said this summer that they won't go up for 2 years. This past week, he seems to be readjusting his timeframe. It was Bernanke who said that the subprime problem won't impact the overall ecomony before markets crashed in 2008. Obama says he's on the side of the Wall Street Occupiers, yet it was Wall Street that funed his 2008 campaign. It's his administration that has spent ober $3T in trying to avoid the inevitable and putting this nation into a position of now carrying a $15T debt load. We're getting to the point of no return when we won't be able to pay the interest on our debt. Again, our goverenment at work on our behalf. God help us...stop coveting the rich, and start complaining to your congressmen. If we taxed all of the 1%ers at 100% it wouldn't even dent our problems and what this nation is about to face. That is the truth that those of you who are angry at the rich just won't accept. Wake up!

Here's what I am talking about. Interest soaked media. I have headlines. How about Iraqi people just may be a victim of the United States. Or how about Fox news and your master that has you on a leash. Has Americans so far in debt they are getting tossed out of their houses.

I can't even enumerate the henious shit the interest soaked news media has fucking perpetrated on the world. I can't even count the dead. Iraq, Vietnam, Libya thats the short list. How about hookers killed in Vegas? You know Vegas the town Usury built? Anyone with a fucking brain knows that. Shit happens.

But as anyone in a city can tell you 99.99% of the time nothing happens. Save your bullshit for the shut'ins.

How about some free fucking advertising ole buddie FOX? We would like some free advertising from all of those fucking newspapers like oh NYT fucking times.

Save your bullshit we aren't fooled in a land where the cities are filled with whorehouses with public signs and strip joints and all the other bullshit that you try to pin on a guy everyone in fucking America loves. Yet you slammed Craigs because some ladies of the night got on there. Villified him in a land with so many whorehouses and strip joints in your cities you can't even count them.

The cash that slips out of your hand just makes you wretch. Forecloser merchants.

Someone in America isn't selfish. Actually did something for people. Go ahead try and pull some more bullshit on someone that generous. We love this guy trash him again see what happens. Craig is a modern day hero. Craig has helped I can't count how many. So save your fucking pennies you throw in a copper bucket on Christmas and the Turkey you and your family bring to the needy. I'm not impressed. With Craig I am really, really impressed.

One more thing. I live near a large metro area. Truth now. There was no one out there for the most part it was a very normal and sometimes less than normal day "Black Friday". Use violence as examples. Of course something is always on a police blotter for a Mall almost every day of the week. Nice trick. I actually heard the commentator on fox say to another one. "Did they whip the credit card and buy something? Thats the most important thing". That gives you a really good idea who really owns fox. One more thing. That old fruit cake of Grandma's? That means something. Check your serial numbers, model numbers. They love putting last years shit on sale without telling you about it. Stuff, repackaged returns, stuff sitting in a warehouse. Food to believe it or not. Stuff they can't get rid of. Your stupid for thinking those people do anything nice OR mostly even tell the truth about anything. Now Craigs really smart shopping. I am not kidding.

If you look up there one more time. Paper devalues your goods to nothing. Craigs bypasses that in many ways. You would be smart to use it. Deal is with Craigs you have to use your head. Thing is also you can always count on things bought at a store. Can return it also. You can also count on a 500 to 1000% markup on everything they sell. Hey id take it back to if you were stupid enough to buy from me, with those kind of markup's. Things like a half filled box of hamburger helper thats marked up 800% over what it costs to make. After all they own every fucking grocery store from coast to coast. Just enough to fit your budget keep you hungry and at work. How do they do it? There is cheap food, good, better and best. Forget healthy food if your what they consider a low level earner, your just fucked.. Vegetables cost a fortune and grow for practically nothing.

http://patrick.net/?p=1176749

So basically Patrick, you are saying to me....(and everybody else)

For the sake of the greater good, keep paying $2500 in rent/month to some other guy so that we can hurt the 1% with falling home prices.

So you are asking me to keep living with the uncertainty if my landlord kicks me out of my house and I have to fish for another rental for my family. You are asking me to financially pay somebody else rather then myself??

And if everybody rents - WHO are the landlords then? Not the 1%?? Aren't those the guys, you are trying to take down? What about the big corporations that own thousands of apartment complexes. You think they care about the papervalue of the condo's - NO. They would love a strike like this.

Makes 0 sense.

You are sounding like the biggest landlord of all times trying to lure everybody into your apartment complex.

How is having to pay rent not enslavement? Paying rent is like paying for a house and never having any equity in it.

The only way your proposal could make sense (but would practically not work) is to say:

- Don't buy anything
- Don't rent anything

Move into the mountains, sleep in a tent, hunt for food, drink ice melt water...if 150million americans would do that, the 1% would finally feel it.

By the way, I am thinking of opening a bed and breakfast in the mountains...special cheap rates for patrick.netters :)

Heres what I am talking about headline:
Black Friday retail sales hit record, says report.

Look really close at the photo. This was on CNN probably given to them or they took it I don't know. What they did is mirror the image. Look closely the people on the right hand side of the esclator are the same as the people on the left side of the escalator.

You may be reading too much into it.

I have been in a retail store before where the escalator was against a wall that had a giant mirror.

Sort of an irony to it though.

The behavior at the events mirrors the values of those who participated.

BACAH your right. Honestly you wonder if they did that on purpose though take that shot. Not only that. That is one big long mirror. I'm just wondering how the mirror can go that deep there must be one on the other side also. Cause the reflection goes way, way back into the mall. Very clever. That part doesn't make sense to me maybe you can see it. Truth is they wanted to give that impression. Guess it pays to pay attention. Too BACAH look at the angle where the mirror ends. The crowd stays double and just keeps going.

A video you will like:

http://youtu.be/YgSPaXgAdzE

That is a mirror. Always filthy too. I know that mall.

Tried to give the impression clearly. Also angle of mirror and depth.

Headline: Black Friday retail sales hit record, says report.

When you look at first glance you can't see. I blew the photo up for some reason, then I noticed. Nothing Like this was going on around me and I live near a large city. In fact traffic was sparse. I live only 9 miles from the most popular mall in the town. No traffic on really traveled roads that go to the mall.

I have to question the acumen of people that shop with so much job loss. Not only that the same for the credit card companies that will have to suck up the losses of the people that do lose their jobs and default. The whole thing really makes no sense to me. You would think one would be saving for a potential emergency. With so much foreclosure. Shelter would be a priority also. Stores may not have such a priorty. Survival also. Once the merchandise is sold. They don't have any more worries. Given the incestious relationship between credit cards, credit, stores, not able to make house payments etc. Seems a very disorganized way to do things. Not only that. It's a very OR would be a very irresponsible way for the majority of people to behave given the status of the current situation. Just does not make sense otherwise.

One more thing. There are many Asian in the picture above. China is taking a chance also. Something that the forecasters are obviously not making them very aware of. Especially the whoop-de-doo people like Fox. Not only that they appear. I said appear trying to make things happen in an otherwise not so good situation. What that means is China is joining in right along with them. China should watch out someone may just be cooking the books. Their books got cooked, marinated and well done the last time around.

Lotta people just want to enjoy there savings or there hard fought credit raiting (people do not consider this, but a good FICO score is something you EARN and should there for be enjoyed like any other earnings) but yeah I think some people need to consider the junk they are investing in and look to something that pays you to sit around do nothing rather than working all ones life for cheap trinkets for XMAS time.

Also remember Art that foreclosures are a blessing more than they are not. They are what the pros call econo drivers. This is real.

Here's an LA home (3964 Black Bird Way, Calabasas, CA 91302) that sold in February 1998 for $450,000, then in June 2006 only 8 years later for an astonomical $1,095,000! You say that the bubble has burst, but the current ower is trying to sell it today for $950,000! So please tell me how the bubble has burst in LA. I still believe that in many places in the USA, it still has a long way to fall. If you buy into the unnatural bubble in real estate that took place from 1998 to 2005/6 then I can see where you're coming from. If you study the history of real estate prices in the 20th century, you'll recognize that the bubble was an anomaly: http://www.dailywealth.com/825/A-Surprising-Look-at-100-Years-of-Home-Prices

.

02/05/1998

Sold

$425,000

--

bgamall4 says

don't think that LA or SF have burst. But there are a lot of folks buying from foreign lands right now, so who knows if it will burst as much as we think?

with all respect that is lies. American citizens and war contract workers are forming trusts as i type this. there is serious $$$ here. believe me I know. I am involved somewhat

they make the big bucks. my son in law made 420 thousand dollars last year serving as a software man in Iraq

i'm very happy renting my hole in the wall right now and squirreling away my hard-earned cash money, but there is going to come a time when i'm going to want to buy - whether or not the subsidies are modified or eliminated. i plan on buying in a year or two, and, if i can, possibly paying in all cash.

someone said it best in a different thread - "either you're a slave to rent, or you're a slave to property taxes."

Zachary says

Here's an LA home (3964 Black Bird Way, Calabasas, CA 91302) that sold in February 1998 for $450,000, then in June 2006 only 8 years later for an astonomical $1,095,000! You say that the bubble has burst, but the current ower is trying to sell it today for $950,000! So please tell me how the bubble has burst in LA. I still believe that in many places in the USA, it still has a long way to fall.

if his house sits in an area with good schools, and all his neighboors house prices are around that range, there is no way that house will come down to just $500K or so.

but if that house sit in an average area with so so schools, then your argument have some merit.

chip_designer says

his house sits in an area with good schools, and all his neighboors house prices are around that range, there is no way that house will come down to just $500K or so.

no way it will yuou are rite. lot of investment money comin g in from returning veterans and contract workers. they will buy these places up and rent them back to the less fortunre

chip_designer says

but if that house sit in an average area with so so schools, then your argument have some merit.

course home school is more more poplar so this mite not always apply

At the end of the day we each have the right to make our own decisions and have to live with the results of what we do. While a landlord can evict you, so can the bank who really owns your house until it's paid off in full. If you don't believe me, pay your mortgage off 99% and then stop paying and see what happens to YOUR home! Cash flow is the key regardless to which path you take. Then there are the 25% off all US homeowners who are underwater, paying on the American dream of hme ownership while the mortgage is larger than the value of their home. Given the shape of the world's economy in the US, Europe, and Asia and the increasing bank exposure to the unregulated derivatives market (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/five-banks-account-96-250-trillion-outstanding-derivative-exposure-morgan-stanley-sitting-fx-de), IMHO that hard times are coming over the next few years. With banks collapsing, government debt exploding, and inflation rising, the prognosis for real estate is dismall. Prices will continue to fall. The National Real Estate Association will have to stop marketing their misinformation and accept the fact that real estate values continue to fall across the nation: http://www.npr.org/2011/12/21/144066058/housing-market-weaker-than-previously-thought?source=patrick.net
Finally, if you own investment properties with rentl income that cover your expenses that's a beautiful thing. Happy Holidays to all: Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah!

Kriggle dot com, where prices are 100% higher than reality.

Ooh. I don't actually know what that advertiser is selling...

When people look at prices in 1990’s thru 2000’s they should realize that the prices should double every ten years. This is a common rule to keep up with inflation. Also, housing is becoming affordable again. I am not saying that housing will not go down, but I don’t see a large shift in prices. I believe there maybe a 2-3% downward trend, and then a drag on the bottom. Government has stabilized the market and now companies are growing. The unemployed will be force to take any wage possible because benefits are exhausted. I am betting we have Russia, China, and US start competing for raw materials by the end of 2012 and prices will start rising again. Housing will be hyper inflated because rents are going to spike again in a few years

That's a great idea! You guys all stop buying homes so I wont have to bid against you when I'm buying mine!! :)

Happy Day!

ReasonNotFaith says

That's a great idea! You guys all stop buying homes so I wont have to bid against you when I'm buying mine!! :)

Happy Day!

hey another real estate investment wizz here on Patrick! $$$$$$$$$$4

yeah get rid of all of those things. And get rid of the mortgage deductions too. At least until I buy my house. Then bring them all back!

futuresmc says

What happens when more than half of the housing in the US is rental?

Wasn't that the case in the US for quite some time before a certain year? I mean, I'm pretty sure that was the case before (1940, or something) and so figuring out what would happen should be possible by learning history.

Mr B says

When people look at prices in 1990’s thru 2000’s they should realize that the prices should double every ten years.

That cannot be true. That would be a compound rate of 7.2%, which is way higher than the Case Shiller compound rate of 3.5% over the last 20 years (which includes the bubble of course).

Also, prices are still falling in richer neighborhoods. So don't count on any appreciation at all in the next decade.

bgamall4 says

I don't think people should bid for houses at all. I think a lot of it is a scam and I think it drives prices up artificially. It is bad for the consumer.

I agree. It's not even good for the seller if they're upgrading. They'll lose more on their next house than they gain on the smaller one they're selling, when the same scam is played on them.

The blind-bidding scam is good for people who are downsizing, or selling for the last time though. And it's good for banks and realtors.

all I have to say is "I told you so" to all of the RE-pukes that were all over my butt in 2004-05-06-07 when I was put my opinion on PatNet that there would be a reset to 1999 prices, with a REDUCTION for repairs, and an INCREASE of 1% per year (Merced County rate). So far, I'm pretty close.

Also, the sales numbers were pumped up in the post burst time --- lets not forget how many of the sales since 07 are already going into forclosure #2 (again, Merced County). Most homes sold at the still-too-high amount relied on USDA 0% down, or some other buyer assistance program (me included - due to repairs needed).

THe REgang has rigged this thing in their favor. It sucks. So far, in my uneducated little mind, I see the first step being the end of the NAR/RE gang. THere is no logical reason for an RE agent to exist. They have made themselves needed out of thin air. F that, no more REgangsters needed. We don't use an agent to buy anything else. Car, food, clothes, .. no agent, no extra fees, no bull crap.

Here's one to make you all barf -

http://money.cnn.com/video/pf/2011/12/21/pf_ate_real_estate_outlook_2012.cnnmoney/