patrick.net

Just because their stock looks cheap doesn't make it a bargain. I would stay away from Bank of America when there exist so many good companies to buy out there.

Stocks often have a low price for a reason. BoA is a dead man walking. Until banks mark their assets to market you can't trust any of the numbers anyway.

BofA is the fast food of banking. Convenient and fast but not as good for you in the long run as alternatives. It has a big bank image coupled with owning a huge portion of troubled properties and home loans.

I wouldn't touch it.

The convenience angle, the fear of not having an ATM you won't be charged for using, is wearing very thin. Most competitive banks these days will wave the ATM fees being charged to get money. Also, cash back at retail, and debit cards overall, are destroying the need for ATMs.

This leaves you with only the benefits of what services BofA provides as a bank. Their online banking isn't as good or as modern as it should be. Their rates are not competitive. Their service is fine but nothing special. They are also a huge institution and not as agile as smaller financial institutions.

Their recent big move was to purchase Countrywide.

"Countrywide presents a rare opportunity for Bank of America to add what we believe is the best domestic mortgage platform at an attractive price and to affirm our position as the nation's premier lender to consumers," Bank of America Chief Executive Ken Lewis said. -- quoted from NPR article

They hold a huge total of distressed property now as Countrywide was a horrible and reckless lender. What BofA is able to do is basically give favoritism to potential buyers of properties that BofA owns, to buyers who get their financing through BofA. Is this a good business model or even that great of a competitive advantage right now?

Finally, you still have a large sentiment against big banks that has been ongoing for some time. (See the moveyourmoney campaign that started well before the BofA debit fee woopsie.)

I'm sure they will survive as an institution, and they may even make money for stock holders when things turn around (3 years? 5 years? 10 years?). Personally, I just don't like what they sell, do, or provide. I vote with my dollar and choose to give it to my credit union instead.

rewrew7 says

The convenience angle, the fear of not having an ATM you won't be charged for using, is wearing very thin. Most competitive banks these days will wave the ATM fees being charged to get money. Also, cash back at retail, and debit cards overall, are destroying the need for ATMs.

This leaves you with only the benefits of what services BofA provides as a bank. Their online banking isn't as good or as modern as it should be. Their rates are not competitive. Their service is fine but nothing special. They are also a huge institution and not as agile as smaller financial institutions.

Not really wearing that thin on me. I don't use debit cards, first off, and don't see any reason why I'd want to over a credit card, except the ATM feature, which is limited usually to $60, so not much use anyway - I like to take out $300-500 at a time and actually wish they'd raise the BofA ATM limit. Last I looked, which admittedly has been a while, bank ATM fees were on the rise, and even if your bank didn't charge a fee for using another bank's ATM, the other bank did.

Agree on services, but doubt any other bank is that much better, for the same level of fees/deposit requirements. (Yes, if you have a lot of money on deposit as a "private client" you can probably get treated better elsewhere.)

No idea on the bank as a stock.

I believe BOA will go down; cut and divided. Buffet is anticipating it, that's why he bought that large amount of preferred shares to get a large chunk of their assets, and probably he can get a deal if he goes for their volatile assets (i.e. foreclosed properties) when they do go down, which have no significant value except for on paper. It should be as big as the Louisiana Purchase. I say Don't Buy. Invest in other areas.

Heres the thing. Paper is plentiful. Very easy to get. TREES are everywhere. Silver and copper well you have to go and get that not so plentiful. See the key here is abundance.

You have a short abundance of silver and copper. PLUS its tough to find. Go look for some. You have no idea of WHERE.

Now go find a fucking tree. SEE. Trees right outside your door. Plus you can grow trees. So there is an unlimited supply of paper.

This is what they did. They made PAPER the only established means of trade. They also made it so they are the ones can legally print that paper.

Shit its easy to figure out from there you can buy the whole fucking earth up from that point. Not only that you can buy everyones. I MEAN EVERYONES LABOR. Its a bad fucking deal. Its not level. Its MT FUJI.

Those slick bastards have to go there is no doubt. I MEAN WHO THE FUCK ARE THEY? Can print all they want and get anything they want. Screw them. Who made them God? I sure didn't. I am fairly certain none of you did.

Now if we make say coinage legal then nothing else. Then the government distributes that thru their labor. It gets into the public. ONE MORE THING. Its not the legal means of trade. Everything else is too. Food, housing everything. They need to put the people that deal in paper in jail as far as I'm concerned.

See many people are mad about. Is that its a small cabal of people. USURY people. Don't forget to put USURY people in. Clever part of that is they add in all of the choosen and it turns into a biblical epic. Clever. I'm not fooled. Its a small cabal of some really clever usury people who have delt in this thing for quite sometime. Ask any of the people in Israel that have to get a home loan. Which is most of them. Who have some really bad interest rates.

So sweep prejudice and intolerance aside. I'm not a GD fool. Now it becomes a small group of some really clever swindelers. That likes to toss the kitchen sink and and everything else and lets everyone fight over it religious style. Screw them.

This is a coop government by the people for the people. Its tough for everyone to get together as we weed through the debt slaves and the bonded labor. As they scream at us hey we have to make our house payment today. Its tough when debt merchants have all the entertainment that people like or are directed to. Where they get some really helpful suggestions on what to say and do.

These occupy people have balls. Next time you look at them. Try thinking hey they are trying to get us out of all of this. What the swindelers have perpetrated on everyday people. Buying up all of their labor WITH PAPER sucking down the entire population turning it into their labor. Taking nations governments putting them in debt WITH PAPER. Sucking down all the the things of nature WITH PAPER. Stop and think about them out there on the street. Then you just might figure out. Hey these guys really care about you. That they don't want you to be a debt slave. Who cares? Looks to me like they do. Who wants to put an end to the private corporation of the Federal Reserve? Why they do!

ArtimusMaxtor says

Heres the thing. Paper is plentiful. Very easy to get. TREES are everywhere....

Thanks for focusing and staying on topic and not rambling incoherently. If you on medication, you should consider adjusting your dosage, if you not on medication, perhaps you should consider getting some.

I think the TBTF thing is over, I would like to think the gov would not be that stupid again but who knows...anything can happen. I think there is a growing interest in these bailouts. The people are pissed about it, I don't think a bailout of BOA will happen unless there is a way for the gov to do it without putting the taxpayers on the hook. With that said, if there is a way, I do think they will be bailed out.

A little insider info, not sure if its relevant or not...My friends husband works for this company out here in Jersey and this company handles all of the planning and remodeling for 30 branches who were recently scheduled to have renovations. They canceled the plans to renovate on 30 branches. Now if you go into many of the branches it does look as if they were planning to remodel or renovate. It just hasn't happened yet.

We all know they MUST be insolvent since the acquired two huge failures. The question is, will they be bailed out and will the people have a say?

I think the whole stock market is rigged. If the US wasn't supporting it ... Dow 4000. B of A may survive and climb in price with US support. Look at AIG. But without that support they're all gone. And by the way the markets don't know the future (this includes gold) as the cnbc freaks keep telling us. In 2007 as this recession intensified, markets were at their all-time highs... pretty dumb market. It girates on the whims of gamblers and bandwagon riders trying to squeeze out a daily buck.

It's a zombie bank that's TBTF, according to our politicians. I won't short it, but I won't buy it either.

"Does anyone think it's a good buy, or it is doomed to go bankrupt?"

Surely you must be kidding!

Yes, I am, and stop calling me Shirley.

Seriously, you can't be seriously asking that question. The answer is 'B'. Same for most every other major "TBTF" bank worldwide.

melissarascio says

I think the TBTF thing is over, I would like to think the gov would not be that stupid again but who knows...anything can happen. I think there is a growing interest in these bailouts. The people are pissed about it, I don't think a bailout of BOA will happen unless there is a way for the gov to do it without putting the taxpayers on the hook. With that said, if there is a way, I do think they will be bailed out.

They'll find a way to bail them out always. It doesn't have to be through direct cash injection, there is a myriad of ways to do a bail out and for an average person it won't be obvious at all.

I really do think they will be bailed out, which is why I am calling this a gamble. Because I am gambling here, not investing.

All of the banks that went belly up. All of those assets were aquired. In many cases by subsidiaries of the Super banks. Deal is they don't let assets go that easy. It's fractional reserve lending. They are not interested in paper. That they have.

The assets they DO want. Not to mention loans on other assets they want to capture that to. We are talking auto loans also things like that also anything with an asset attached. Check the FDIC list. See who bought what. If your not savvy in this and do not understand who owns what as far as subsidiaries. You could have a tough time understanding.

Chase, Citi, Morgan all of those will never lose in this. Members of the Federal reserve.

BOA is not and really could. Before it fails it might take a long time to map everything out for whoever is getting it. Could happen.

JG1 says

I don't use debit cards, first off, and don't see any reason why I'd want to over a credit card, except the ATM feature, which is limited usually to $60, so not much use anyway - I like to take out $300-500 at a time and actually wish they'd raise the BofA ATM limit.

Well, of course, if you're going to a strip joint, you need to take out that much. But for all other uses, being able to take out $60 when you go grocery shopping once a week is plenty. As such ATMs aren't really necessary.

Side note: Even though some banks will not charge you for using a "foreign" ATM, the bank/company that owns the ATM will certainly charge you. So it's never a good deal. Best to stick to using you local supermarket as an ATM.

TechGromit says

Does anyone think it's a good buy, or it is doomed to go bankrupt?

I don't think the government will let BoA go bankrupt. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the gvt let the common stock go to zero while protecting preferred stock or whatever is the financial interest of the executives and founders. [Note: I don't know off the top of my head if BoA has preferred stock, but I bet it has some "ownership" compensation separate from common stock.]

Perhaps the gvt will allow BoA to be sold off to another giant bank at pennies on the dollar over common shareholder's objections for "the greater financial security of our nation". You can never be sure with these too-big-too-fail banks. The laws do not apply to them and the gvt is willing to change the law at the drop of a hat to make special case exceptions for such large corporations.

FortWayne says

They'll find a way to bail them out always.

I agree, but remember that the "them" is the executives, not the stock holders. Even when BoA gets another bailout, it might not save the common stock owners. Uncle Sam does not care about a commoner's financial portfolio. Only the ultra-rich with political connections are protected.

I plan to buy some at the end of december assuming the price stays low then hold for a year. I bought citi back when it was $3.95/sh and it traded sideways for about 4 mos so I pulled out. Then the stock went to $30/sh and I beat my wife. She kinda had it comin though.

These TBTF banks always find a way to come back. The system will not let them fail because they control the system. The Fed Res is their betch. That's why Ron Paul gets no media love. could you imagine if we really did audit the Fed. I mean a true open up the books audit and not a "please hand us the files you have so we may take a look". I mean a raid on the Fed Res with no warning.

Got my eye on Alcoa as well

smp9 says

Then the stock went to $30/sh and I beat my wife. She kinda had it comin though.

I would not buy BOA stock.

JG1 says

Not really wearing that thin on me. I don't use debit cards, first off, and don't see any reason why I'd want to over a credit card, except the ATM feature, which is limited usually to $60, so not much use anyway - I like to take out $300-500 at a time and actually wish they'd raise the BofA ATM limit. Last I looked, which admittedly has been a while, bank ATM fees were on the rise, and even if your bank didn't charge a fee for using another bank's ATM, the other bank did.

Agree on services, but doubt any other bank is that much better, for the same level of fees/deposit requirements. (Yes, if you have a lot of money on deposit as a "private client" you can probably get treated better elsewhere.)

No idea on the bank as a stock.

I will hazard you are in the minority here as far as financial practice. In my experience most people do not carry large sums of cash on them. I'm not sure how you use the withdrawn sum, but do you find your average transaction size is about 20-40 dollars? That's right within the 60-80 dollar limit of cash back at retail and typically I carry at most, 80 dollars on my person max. With a CC, Debit card, and a small sum of cash you can field just about any normal daily transaction you hit, and I believe this is likely the norm.

Again, in my experience, having almost no cash on hand seems to especially be true of the current batch of 20 somethings, the millennials. They are very comfortable with digits in a computer being their money, and typically their wallets are empty except for plastic of some sort (my typical week of group lunches with younger co-wrokers attests to this when the bill comes to the table).

My prediction is similar to Blockbuster, and brick and mortar book stores, physical locations are soon going to haunt BofA as a weakness. Modern digital banking doesn't require large scale physical branch presence. Couple this with the current housing market which they are entrenched in, and the big banks are bad sentiment, and they are not a very appealing institution to invest in, in my mind.

If you doubt the service and rates, even for small accounts, are better elsewhere you should really check out your local credit union or alternatives to the larger banks. My experience has been that they very much appreciate their customers, give great interest, and very low fees. They value individual accounts more because they have less of them. No need to move your money for any political reasons, you can move your money for plain money money reasons! :)

Actually the stock market is interesting in that it paralled Oil in many respects. In Jimmy Carters day it was at 800 pts. No one cared to much I guess.

I consider it a swindel for one reason. You have no asset. Nothing. Not even a pen from a bank. Thats enough to make me stay away from it. It goes to 0 im screwed there is nothing backing it.

I can get into banks and who handles the transactions and everything else its all bullshit to me. Its basically compensation. Take a good look at it. It's compensation to a certain select. Even the people of occupy are screaming this in the city street.

smp9 says

I beat my wife. She kinda had it comin though.

:)

BAC will probably do a reverse split to cut down on the high day trading volume. This is what Citi did also & for the same reason. Since the split was 1 for 10 the $30 price now is really $3. So the poster that had the old stock at $3.95 is still under water. There are a lot of better risks than CIti or BAC.

rewrew7 says

The convenience angle, the fear of not having an ATM you won't be charged for using, is wearing very thin.

It has been thin for a while. There are credit unions that have better ATM networks than BofA.

JG1 says

I like to take out $300-500 at a time and actually wish they'd raise the BofA ATM limit.

Isn't the BofA ATM limit $500/daily? It was when I had an account there a few years ago.

rewrew7 says

If you doubt the service and rates, even for small accounts, are better elsewhere you should really check out your local credit union or alternatives to the larger banks. My experience has been that they very much appreciate their customers, give great interest, and very low fees. They value individual accounts more because they have less of them. No need to move your money for any political reasons, you can move your money for plain money money reasons! :)

Same experience here. The credits unions I use have been faster at rolling out other convenience features like online deposit as well. The political reasons are also good reasons for leaving big banksters, but the customer service and monetary benefits are great reasons too.

Stocks are so manipulated that even recovering companies shares take forever to go up...

I would stay away from BOFA

ArtimusMaxtor says

So sweep prejudice and intolerance aside. I'm not a GD fool. Now it becomes a small group of some really clever swindelers. That likes to toss the kitchen sink and and everything else and lets everyone fight over it religious style. Screw them.

Have you tried decaf?

repo4sale says

DON'T LISTEN TO POOR PEOPLE! ONLY RICH INVESTORS!!

I only listen to people who type in all caps.

www.straightmoneyanalysis.com says to put your money in a Credit Union, or the likes. Look at what happened to Gerald Celente. The poor guy bought a contract that was supposed to be delivered on and instead they stole hundreds of thousands of dollars and he never got to take possession of his gold/silver. I heard today that there is no law that says that a bank can't take your money. now that's scary. I wonder if the FDIC insures against bankster theft? My Wells Fargo Account is being transferred to the CU.

By the way, B of A sucks.

I guess a good follow up question would be - if you buy now, are you going to bail if it hits 10, or what is your time horizon for it?

I'm in with a stop loss at $3. On the other end, I'm not totally sure - I'm fine with doubling up by mid-2014.

I've heard that BAC is essentially insolvent but I've never looked at the financials on them, which I would guess are a mess.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says

Hahahaha! What can you do? Do? Hahahahaha! You can fucking die, asshole, and take your satanic goddamn bank to hell with you!

This warmed the cockles of my heart.

I have noticed the branch managers at banks/CU's are more friendly these days than usual. They seem to be trolling for kool-aid drinkers. When they find out you are not one to pile on debt they cease to be your newfound friend.

I think BAC IS a great buy!! You would be stupid not to invest. Today 1-24-12 the stock is around 6.25 a share already up 20 percent from your five dollars. It does pay a dividend as well. But we should patient, If you got the wind knocked out of you, you probably get up slower too..

Be smart says

I think BAC IS a great buy!!
...
But we should patient, If you got the wind knocked out of you, you probably get up slower too..

I want to kick the shit out of them. lol
Joking aside. Uncle Ben's plan to squeeze old folks out of parking $ in T-bills and bonds is working.
geezers like IBM,Mcd,Intel,Msft,Bac...
(Edit: sorry, BAC pays little dividend, I won't touch it. )
High yield and familiar - low risk.
IBM dividend history:

Been workin out for me. I bought on 12/30 and I'm up 30%. Alcoa is another I bought on same date and it's up 16% so far.

Roman says

I believe BOA will go down; cut and divided. Buffet is anticipating it, that's why he bought that large amount of preferred shares

The key there is preferred shares, not common shares. The commoners will get fucked as always.

Dan8267 says

Side note: Even though some banks will not charge you for using a "foreign" ATM, the bank/company that owns the ATM will certainly charge you.

Some banks are now reimbursing you for other banks ATM fees - my bank covers up to $15 dollars in fees per month (more than I use in a month) so I don't care what ATM I use.