patrick.net

I don't like the fact that government makes income taxes at 35%, but capital gains only at 15%. Seems like a one way street.

PockyClipsNow says

'middle class' is democrat code word for 'governement and union employees'. eff them.

We're all middle class. And I've never worked for the government or under a union. Have you?

im a ron paul nut job so i reject the R and D parties

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

tatupu70 says

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

If you don't understand this is a description of our out of control, big-brother liberal government you are part of the problem!

sheltielover1 says

tatupu70 says

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

If you don't understand this is a description of our out of control, big-brother liberal government you are part of the problem!

Well, they ARE part of the problem.

I want to see what happens when Republicans take the Senate and White House in November, leaving the largest state in the nation completely without majority representation in either the executive or legislative branches of the Federal government. Most Californians don't yet understand what that will mean but they're about to find out.

sack says

But the dividends have already been taxed once as corporate tax, taxing it again is probably netting the government more than your 35% (which I doubt many of us are paying). And you discount the fact that investments is what finances others to be "productive".

You do not get taxed at your income and then get taxed again for moving your money from checking account to savings account do you?

The corporation doesn't immediately give you a dividend when they realize profit. They don't come to you and ask for money when they lose money, do they?

Dividends are taxed because you're receiving a profit at that time. It's not double taxation because it just don't matter that the corporate profits have already been taxed. That's just absolutely irrelevant. You're taxed when the money becomes yours. It's pretty simple.

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

I don't understand where all this hatred of California comes from. California is hardly the crazy liberal utopia people think it is. It voted for a Republican president from 1968 to 1992. Since 1975 CA has had two Democratic Governors, (Jerry Brown from 75 to 83, Davis from 99 to 03, and Brown from 11 to present). People claim that Schwatzenegger won because he's so recognizable, but it also helped that he was just a Republican (and pro-choice), not a batshit insane Republican.

Gay marriage was legalized through lawsuit, not vote, after it was outlawed by way of prop 8. Medical marijuana was legalized but statewide decriminalization failed. We have prop 13. We passed 3 strikes. We passed prop 187, which was later ruled unconstitutional, but that doesn't change the fact that it passed in the first place.

Fact of the matter is that CA is not liberal crunchy granola utopia. It's got some pockets of that, but it's also got some strong conservative strongholds. The major difference is that a lot of the conservatives in the state aren't the extreme rightwing nutjobs that characterize the current Republican party.

Overall, CA is pretty moderate.

rootvg says

I want to see what happens when Republicans take the Senate and White House in November, leaving the largest state in the nation completely without majority representation in either the executive or legislative branches of the Federal government. Most Californians don't yet understand what that will mean but they're about to find out.

Oh, many Californians understand what that would mean, just many Republicans do not.

*hint* - reread the OP pic

tatupu70 says

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

This must be what david1 was referring to.

WTF HAS HAPPENED TO MY REAL ESTATE SITE! lol

I want MORE AND MORE of the GOP race.

I want every channel dedicated to this internecine civil war 24x7.

I want blood and gore on the floor.

I want billionaires spending their entire fortune to inflate Super PACs to obscene levels. Frankly right now they aren't spending nearly enough, maximize the Citizens United effect and just make it official that Richie Rich decides who sits in the White House, and it's best if it's one of their own.

Set that money free into the economy instead of cluttering up your swimming pool. Put people to work selling the GOP as the One True Path to America Ascendant. Yeah that would be great stimulus. Just create an entire class whose job is year-round election worker.

jerrypap says

My biggest challenge every step of the way has all been related to onerous and typically nonsensical government restrictions - regulations, taxes, and a thousand other government policies that sometimes make it near impossible to get ANYTHING done.

I'm coming to the conclusion that much government regulation is the way that the 1% prevents you from competing with them.

All in the name of the public interest, of course. See this for some examples:

http://www.gresham.ac.uk/print/1789

leoj707 says

rootvg says

I want to see what happens when Republicans take the Senate and White House in November, leaving the largest state in the nation completely without majority representation in either the executive or legislative branches of the Federal government. Most Californians don't yet understand what that will mean but they're about to find out.

Oh, many Californians understand what that would mean, just many Republicans do not.

*hint* - reread the OP pic

This happened during the early days of Bush 43. Republicans decided carrying California was no longer necessary (Florida, Texas, Georgia and the Carolinas became big enough, Electorally speaking) and they thumbed their noses at us. It's gonna happen again.

Re: illegal aliens.
The millions of illiterates working here drives entry level and blue collar wages down.
None of them will ever create any innovation or improvement of production or anything leading to an economic benefit. They are the modern equivalent of slaves, who only benefit the employers/slave owners.
In Mexico, just 33% of adults have finished high school. The percentage is lower among illegal aliens coming to the USA.
They only create profit for the employer/slave owner. The fancy restaurant in Manhattan serving pasta with octupus and bone marrow for $38/plate can afford to pay higher wages to kitchen staff. But, they push the slaves to produce ever more plates ever faster, making the fancy restaurants vastly more profitable.
All of the guys I know who hire illegal aliens cheat everywhere they can themselves in their own businesses and affairs.
I live where there are tons in all types of employment.
If they could vote, they would be Democrats. They get tons of freebies here.

Vicente says

I want MORE AND MORE of the GOP race.

You deserve a pin...

PockyClipsNow says

I won't be donating to patrick.net again until this becomes a REAL ESTATE ONLY site.

Pnet should set up as LLC non-profit 501c..

thunderlips11 says

Let's say an elite Neurosurgeon performs many brain surgeries, and teaches dozens of med students, saves a hundred lives. Over the course of two years, he makes about a million dollars in salary.

If a NS invests cash and property say $100K and builds a $1M business (investment) and sells his/her interest.. his gain is long term capital gains at 15%. His previous income earned is already taxed as personal income tax rates 35%..

Income is one thing capital assets are another..

Yes, taxed at ordinary income...

thunderlips11 says

He is taxed at 35%
Let's say a Hedge Fund invests $300,000 to buy a mansion. Two years later, for market reasons mostly beyond his control, the mansion is sold for 1M.
He's taxed at 15%.

The rental income before its sold, gets allocated to the partners and taxed at 35% ordinary income... later if they sell.. the gains allocated to each partner and recognized as a gain it may be loss. either way.. THEY BOUGHT an CAPITAL Asset.

thomas.wong1986 says
No he gives up his wealth, by paying cash for an interest in ownership.. it may or may not have any gain and mayhave losses.

No, he doesn't "give up" his wealth. He passively invests money with the hope of a big return taken from the work of other people.
But anyway, he also gets to deduct 100% of his losses from his gains. You forgot that part.
..

On capital stock its limited to $3000 per year not 100% against gains and carry over residual losses in future years .. not much to crow about. yes,, they GIVE UP THEIR wealth because they pay in CASH... Talk to the VCs and their investors who lost their shirt on Sylandra or any other failed start up or public company.. and there are many.

My biggest challenge every step of the way has all been related to onerous and typically nonsensical government restrictions - regulations, taxes, and a thousand other government policies that sometimes make it near impossible to get ANYTHING done.

I'm coming to the conclusion that much government regulation is the way that the 1% prevents you from competing with them.

All in the name of the public interest, of course. See this for some examples:

Very interesting. There seems to be a lot of truth to your statement above.

sack says

But the dividends have already been taxed once as corporate tax, taxing it again is probably netting the government more than your 35% (which I doubt many of us are paying).

This is pure pro-rich meme horseshit.

The non rich wage earners get their income quadruple mega taxed by this logic. After all they pay a sales tax, gas tax, state tax, property tax, federal income tax, etc. all on the same salary.

Yes, Your right. 50% of the poor do not pay any direct income tax. But the poor pay a lot of indirect taxes. Many of the poor have cell phones, And line phones. A lot of taxes are paid there. Many of the poor have cable TV, And Dish TV. A lot of taxes are paid there. A lot of poor people drink and smoke, A lot of taxes are paid. A lot of poor people own cars. The poor people pay for car insurance tires gas and traffic tickets,A Lot of taxes are paid there. One of the reasons why people are Poor, Is that they spend All their money every month. The Poor people in this country help to support the Govt. And the Rich....

rootvg says

There's something else going on here that no one's talking about, which is the level of change technology has forced on workplaces and the incredible level of technological illiteracy that's out there especially among the younger Baby Boom set and then in less well off, less well educated parts of the country.

I don't know what you do about that. Maybe you can't do anything.

If you accept that technology will keep improving and doing more and more work with less and less people then you have to accept and plan for a future where there are few if any low/no skill jobs and even the middle skill level jobs have been greatly diminished.

Ideally this could be done through social welfare programs that would guarantee a certain minimum standard of living + shortening the work day and work week so that more people would be able to get work at all to get "nice things". Their free time could be spent with their families, hobbies, or leisure activities.

If this sounds crazy, remember this: early last century the 60 hour work week was the norm and wages were far lower. Today the work week is 40 hours AND the wages are higher. The 40 hour work week has held steady for going on 100 years yet productivity has increased greatly since then, particularly around the 1970's. That is one of the reasons why may have seen me harping on wealth disparity and wages from time to time. The productivity gains that should have been more fairly distributed amongst the general population have instead been going to the rich.

Many people have incredible ideological bias against this sort of thing to put it mildly, and arguments in a public setting are usually framed in the manner of "I AINT' SUPPORTIN' NO WELFARE QUEENS!!!" or even "DUDE JETSONS WAS A CARTOON AND THIS IS REALITY STFU!!!". On top of this the rich have turned themselves into a rentier class so that they may get bigger and bigger pieces of the wealth over time. So right now its looking like we won't see any of that happen in our lifetimes. That may change but I doubt it.

If anything I'd say that we're headed towards a full blown 3rd world fascist state if the political and the economic trends of the last few decades are anything to go by.

That's the thing. In a perfect economy there would be NO jobs.

What people need are goods and services, not "jobs." If everything was automated, no one would need to "work."

That's doesn't mean we'd just sit around on the couch all day. We'd just do stuff that was fun. We'd make artwork and sell it to each other, explore the world, play golf, watch sports, etc.

clambo says

So Patrick says I am the guy on the left. If you know a person on Sec. 8, food stamps, SSI, who is NOT a Democrat, give me his email and I will paypal him a few dollars as a reward.

Go to any rural town in Middle America and say hi to the first person you meet. Odds are you'll owe him a few dollars.

thomas.wong1986 says

On capital stock its limited to $3000 per year not 100% against gains and carry over residual losses in future years

You can write of $3000 per year if you don't have any gains, but it is not limited to $3000 per year.

That is, if you have $100,000 in losses in year 1, you write off $3000 in year 1. If in year 2, you have $150,000 in gains, you only pay 15% of $53,000 in taxes for year 2.

Voting Democrat = Voting Replublican, there is no difference! both parties are corrupt, both parties will sell you out for personal gain! All our representatives have 1 thing in common! they are all rich, and people like pelosi, bush, obama uses insider information for personal gain! Our system will crash because people are more focused on pointing the finger @ Republicans or Democrats, rather than the main problem. Democrats (in CA) are puppets to the public sector unions! Republicans are more interested in saying anything to keep them in power, but doing nothing at all! Everyone in the wellfare system should be put to work in order to get paid! if they can't walk give them an office job, if they can give them a job with cal trans cleaning up the freeways! Put them to work! But no, they stay at home watching their big screens, using their cell phones while collecting their checks!
Obama is killing this country, and the next president will do exactly the same! we are just voting on who we think will crash our system the slowest! Sad times we are living in, but it can and will get worse!

AlfonsoM says

Republicans are more interested in saying anything to keep them in power, but doing nothing at all! Everyone in the wellfare system should be put to work in order to get paid! if they can't walk give them an office job, if they can give them a job with cal trans cleaning up the freeways! Put them to work!

OK, I can see the point of making people work for unemployment checks, but only half time so they still have time to look for a job. So I created a thread about that idea:

http://patrick.net/?p=1210453

Welfare is not the same though. I think it's technically called "Aid to families with dependent children" or something like that, and having those children around means the person getting the check would probably have to pay more for childcare than they would get from working. So in a sense, people on welfare are already working -- in child care for their own children.

So in a sense, people on welfare are already working -- in child care for their own children.

Parenting is definitely a full-time job. That's why I have no problem paying higher taxes than people with children.

"March 21 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama’s largest campaign donors last month included employees of Wells Fargo & Co., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., according to an analysis of Federal Election Commission records."

Bankers are equal opportunity

God Bless America.

Welfare is not the same though. I think it's technically called "Aid to families with dependent children"

That's Life long help! I know several illegal alien families who get wellfare, one of these families needed more money, so their 17 year old daughter got pregnant twice from 2 different men! just for the increase in government aid! I understand giving help when they need it, but life long help is breaking this state (CA). Every year more and more people get fanancial aid of some type! My wife was asked if she wanted to apply for (WIC)? she never asked for it? she never even knew what WIC was? They also told her that they can manipulate the numbers so she will qualify? Sad now they are trying to make people more dependant of the government! which means more tax money from all of us! SICK! SYSTEM!

Nomograph says

Total bullshit.

The crap people spew out here is nothing short of amazing.

Yeah, my guess is that this is entirely fabricated.

Ha! This has image has been spreading around Facebook this week. I'm glad to see it made its way here. The truth hurts, doesn't it?

And I'm not saying that the Democratic Party is without fault. They are also owned by the 1%.

I just think this image nails the Republican Party.

I think there's a lot of truth to that image.

But to be fair, a lot of Democrats are saying to the guy on the left, "why don't you stupid fucks vote for smart guys like us?"

That's stupid too, no? Most businesses don't call their customers stupid.

Wow, I had lunch with a couple of ambitious and financially literate friends yesterday and laid out the scenario in the graphic for them.

They said "Yes! That's exactly how it is. Screw those morons. Let them vote to keep themselves poor! Why do you care?"

I said if we continue to anally rape idiots like that, eventually there will be some revolution.

They replied that they would easily be able to escape the revolution, and again urged me to just take advantage of their prejudices and anger to lower my own tax rate, make them into my slaves, etc etc. They went on to explain how Steve Jobs just borrowed against his own stock options, because he knew that when he died his heirs would get to reset the cost basis of those options to the current market value, because the 1% has so thoroughly corrupted our tax laws, ha ha. And that the 99% would never figure it out, because they are simply too stupid and angry, and just don't understand the basic math that will prevent them from ever joining the 1%.

I'm definitely convinced that that graphic is truth.

They went on to explain how Steve Jobs just borrowed against his own stock options, because he knew that when he died his heirs would get to reset the cost basis of those options to the current market value, because the 1% has so thoroughly corrupted our tax laws, ha ha. And that the 99% would never figure it out, because they are simply too stupid and angry, and just don't understand the basic math that will prevent them from ever joining the 1%.

Right off, since when would strangers you spoke with know what Steve Jobs and his lawyers did in private ? Sounds like all conspiracy talk..

Second, he had no stock options, he gave it all back. So he couldnt assign or transfer it. If he did have options and assigned/tranfered/sold his right, Apple Board of Directors would have to approved of it and it would be disclosure item with the SEC and since it would go to his trust..

Lastly, Steve Jobs (Grantor) and heirs (beneficiary) dont have control over his estate assets, its under the control of the Trustee who values the assets, files the tax return, and distributes the income and assets.

" I had lunch with a couple of ambitious and financially literate friends yesterday "

ambitious .. yes.. literate... no ...

Is that what people on University coffee shop do all.. how to con the guy on the street... yea... real great area (Fortress - Palo Alto) to raise your kids !

AlfonsoM says

I know several illegal alien families who get wellfare, one of these families needed more money, so their 17 year old daughter got pregnant twice from 2 different men! just for the increase in government aid!

Every institution or program can and will be abused to an extent, after all not all people are good.

If however the institution or program on balance, despite some who will abuse it for personal gain, is beneficial to the whole of society in terms of money spent, social effects, and morality then it should still be supported right?

If you want to argue the opposite then fine, I guess we should get rid of the police and military and hospitals, hell all governments too right?

They replied that they would easily be able to escape the revolution, and again urged me to just take advantage of their prejudices and anger to lower my own tax rate, make them into my slaves, etc etc.

Those "friends" are real scumbags.