patrick.net

“I'm obviously in the wrong place. I've been reading this blog for years now... I guess engaging in a discussion was a mistake.” Absolutely not! I welcome your tail of REAL ESTATE SUCCESS. Good to counter all the negative nancies around here who apparently paid for a round the world trip on the bitter bus. LOL. As always when faced with a big financial decision put aside all negative possibilities and engage in POSITIVE FINANCIAL FANTASIES!!! Good energy will mold reality. Soon you will be tycooning big time.

@patrick,

The new look does not tell which threads are new or I have read it.

No, Scam. Everything I said was true. I bought a home in 2002 and was fortunate enough to sell much higher in 2005, before things went south. I made enough to pay off the mortgage, a home equity line of credit and some nasty student loans. I don't see those days returning anytime soon, and I learned my lesson about buying (and leveraging) more than I ought to have. I shared here openly in the hopes it would help anyone debating about whether or not to buy a home. Apparently, you get off on attacking people not as open-minded and intelligent as you are. I hope you feel better soon.

The last thing I'll say is this: emotion (or hubris) ought to play no part in the decision to buy (or sell) a home.

bubblesitter says

The new look does not tell which threads are new or I have read it.

Oops. OK, that should be fixed now.

Should I add the "unread" image and the "new" blinky to the home page forum too?

bubblesitter says

The new look does not tell which threads are new or I have read it.

Ditto. I like that feature.

Can you see the new/unread thread graphics now?

Can you see the new/unread thread graphics now?

It's fine now. Thanks.

What a joke. :-)

Scam, what do you think about purchasing land and building your dream house the way you like it?

Is it also a bad investment?

KILLERJANE says

I could disagree because paying cash for a property frees up your income and you are actually paying sticker price. Financial stress is reduced. You always have a place to live in hard times without the added mortgage payment pressure of losing your home. Try it, you'll like it !

Depends on what interest rates are really. From firsthand recent experience I can tell you that with todays interest rates, putting an additional 50k down on a home barely makes a noticeable difference in overall payments.

But besides the point, if you're about to buy a house, in my opinion you should already have a sizable amount of not only cash, but retirement savings as well.

I didn't misrepresent anything. If you feel the need to accuse, then prove it. Quote me as saying that people should buy because they'll make tons of money.

I'm guessing you've had some bad experiences with housing in the past. Don't take it out on others, and learn some civility while you're at it. Clearly the "Insult Another User, Get Suspended" rule is only for a select few. Use your loose leash wisely for a change...

You can pay 200,000 cash or 350,000 over thirty long years, said the king to the peasant. I prefer to be the king at a young age.

Can you see the new/unread thread graphics now?

I can see the feature in some threads, but not others. Weird.

For me, one income, not a good idea, in my state, property taxes change the dynamic for me. But, lol, someone did just call and ask about the house I'm selling, and the first question they asked was how much are the property taxes, and they are about $3000/yr. for a 900 sq. foot home.

KILLERJANE says

You can pay 200,000 cash or 350,000 over thirty long years, said the king to the peasant. I prefer to be the king at a young age.

Like you, I don't like paying interest. It's money down the drain. But so is rent.

The rent vs. buy decision ultimately comes down to minimizing the "money down the drain." You could call it minimizing the "crapper index."

“You can pay 200,000 cash or 350,000 over thirty long years, said the king to the peasant. I prefer to be the king at a young age.” CHACHING you said a mouthful there lady jane, also you would be the queen no??? Any way, you know that if you don’t pay over thirty years you’re going to stiff the banker out of a lot of interest? That’s not very nice. They got your back, they have all the useless old people’s money and they pay them .3% interest so they have to eat cat food meanwhilst they loan it out at 10, 20, 50 times that interest so we can buy houses. You have to pay your respects to such a solid scheme!!!!

You can call me the King of England if you want, Scam. Show me the proof. What exactly am I lying about???

My wife is the cupcake. And only I get to call her that...

Austin TX says

You can call me the King of England if you want, Scam. Show me the proof. What exactly am I lying about???
My wife is the cupcake. And only I get to call her that...

I wouldn't worry too much about what "Housing is a Scam" says. He/She is a notorious troll that many people have on Ignore. Scam just goes around accusing people of being lying Realtors. And he/she changes his/her name constantly in an attempt to avoid detection.

Patrick, is there a way to fix the problem of banned folks changing their names constantly?

Shutdown, formerly Scam... I'm not a realtor, builder, banker, mobster or Genghis Kahn. I'm just a person, like you. You should remember that when you post not just here, but anywhere. If you did, perhaps you could keep the same name for more than thirty minutes.

Our brief exchange here reminds me that I have to pick up my four-year old nephew from daycare soon... Best of luck to you.

OMG Realtors are Liars! Everyone is a liar! Everyone is lying to me all the time! It's all a conspiracy against me! I'm totally paranoid!

Austin TX says

Our brief exchange here reminds me that I have to pick up my four-year old nephew from daycare soon... Best of luck to you.

That's insulting to 4-year-olds. ;-)

wthrfrk80 says

Patrick, is there a way to fix the problem of banned folks changing their names constantly?

Actually, if you're banned, you're banned by IP address. Name changes don't get around that.

The one guy who changes his name all the time isn't banned. In fact, the only IP addresses that are banned right now are spammers (mostly Russian for some reason), and one guy who just keeps personally insulting me every time I let him back on.

If you "ignore" a user though, he will be ignored no matter what he changes his name to.

Shutdown... I don't believe there are too many realtors following Patrick's blog. If they are, I'd be inclined to work with them over the unfortunate situations I've had with dishonest, disinterested realtors in the past. Furthermore, nobody--as far as I can tell--is out to get you, deceive you, or profit from your future, ill-informed decisions.

You're among compassionate people here. Why don't you talk about what happened to cause you to distrust EVERYONE? And why not consider refraining from terms like "real-ta__" in the future? It's offensive on all levels...and does little to communicate your real concerns.

Why so quick to judge people? He said he was not a realtor, his exchanges seemed fair, balanced, and honest. He even said home prices are going to decline going forward.

With all due (and not so due) respect... this is about you. Otherwise, I'd likely be engaging someone with a legitimate argument or concern, or talking about things like when rates will go back up, what that may do to home values, shadow inventories, etc... Instead, I'm addressing one person with two screen names about phantom misrepresentations you have yet to clarify.

I'll admit at first your comments, insults and name calling angered me, but now I find them sad. Somewhere in your medicine cabinet is a bottle with more pills than it ought to have. I suggest you log out and locate it.

wthrfrk80 says

Patrick, is there a way to fix the problem of banned folks changing their names constantly?

Actually, if you're banned, you're banned by IP address. Name changes don't get around that.

The one guy who changes his name all the time isn't banned. In fact, the only IP addresses that are banned right now are spammers (mostly Russian for some reason), and one guy who just keeps personally insulting me every time I let him back on.

If you "ignore" a user though, he will be ignored no matter what he changes his name to.

.. so why isn't he banned? Every other post seems like he's insulting another user.

Ignore works nice

zesta says

.. so why isn't he banned? Every other post seems like he's insulting another user.

Yes, he's annoying. I have a hard time banning anyone though (except spammers - I absolutely LOVE banning them).

Why not use the ignore feature, or dislike his comments?

I'm going to have some anti-troll feature which lets you filter by dislike/like ratio soon.

I think voluntary, low-tech "ignore" works wonders. It's just that new commenters like me will experience a learning curve to identify those for whom low-tech ignore is the only option. It's not in my nature to ignore people--online or in real life. Anything "automated" that might mitigate this necessity would only enhance the social media thing you've got going on here.

Until then, I'll try to expedite the learning curve. :-)

I guess it just gets confusing to read the comments when you Ignore someone. It's like everyone is talking about a ghost response that you can't see. That's why it's hard to choose that option in the thread.
Oh well.. (click), and the silence is deafening.

Back to your regularly scheduled marketing.

zesta says

.. so why isn't he banned? Every other post seems like he's insulting another user.

Yes, he's annoying. I have a hard time banning anyone though (except spammers - I absolutely LOVE banning them).

Why not use the ignore feature, or dislike his comments?

I'm going to have some anti-troll feature which lets you filter by dislike/like ratio soon.

Everytime I post I see the disclaimer: "Insult Another User, Get Suspended" It seems pretty black and white to me.

It's not that the insults bother me, in fact I don't think I've been insulted on this board (yet). This board is excellent because there are some great users which lead to in-depth discussions and analysis. However "trolling" or insults often lead to the discussions completely derailed. I really believe the board loses some people and thoughts that would normally add to the discussion, but choose not to when they see elementary school banter.

Austin TX, I believe what you said as I live in DC area and witnessed few people making a fortune with real estate. They're those people who bought couple houses arround 2000~2002, sold them later arround 2005~6 with chunky profit. Boy, wasn't it crazy back in 2005, especially in arlington county? In fact, pretty much anyone who bought before 2002 in DC area still is a winner, still can sell for profit as DC housing market is still quite strong hovering at 2003 to 2006 level depending on the location. There never been a buyer's market in the better part of DC area only with an exception of late 2008 and early 2009. Unfortunately, I was piss poor back then. Not taking a ninja loan while I can is why I am still renting I guess. Renters like me in DC area lost. Rent went up, regardless of what's happening in the other part of US. DC's rent control law is laughable, and Virginia has no rent control.

That's what DC area is about, but I bet people in better part of SF and NY had seen similar stuff. Others may think differently.

If you have the skills buying a house to remodel is like picking up a second job. The truth is that wealth is often created by working more hours. remodeling is a bitch but you are your own boss and can control the hours. If you do a buy/rent calculation and it comes out as a push but you sincerely have skills with tools, I say buy and kiss all your other hobbies goodbye.

Austin TX says

I didn't misrepresent anything. If you feel the need to accuse, then prove it. Quote me as saying that people should buy because they'll make tons of money.

I'm guessing you've had some bad experiences with housing in the past. Don't take it out on others, and learn some civility while you're at it. Clearly the "Insult Another User, Get Suspended" rule is only for a select few. Use your loose leash wisely for a change...

Don't waste your energy. He's clearly on a wind up. "ALL finished items depreciate ALWAYS." Of course they do. You just need to look at paintings by Monet, Renoir, Van Gogh... to see how true his statement is. I would love to be suffering the 'depreciation' that STL envisages would have inevitably occurred from say my great grandfather purchasing a Cézanne in the 1890s.

Bigsby says

Don't waste your energy. He's clearly on a wind up. "ALL finished items depreciate ALWAYS." Of course they do. You just need to look at paintings by Monet, Renoir, Van Gogh... to see how true his statement is. I would love to be suffering the 'depreciation' that STL envisages would have inevitably occurred from say my great grandfather purchasing a Cézanne in the 1890s.

Unless you house was built by a Frank Lloyd Wright, it depreciates absent inflationary economic policies that push unbacked money and credit through the system to interest sensitive assets, along with other house-ownership coddling policies that short-circuit the market's natural pricing self-governance. Just like most art on the walls of most all households is worth a fraction of what they paid.

Same for a car, unless it's a rare 57 chevy, or a RR, or something of high collector demand. ETC.

seaside says

I live in DC area and witnessed few people making a fortune with real estate. They're those people who bought couple houses arround 2000~2002, sold them later arround 2005~6 with chunky profit. Boy, wasn't it crazy back in 2005, especially in arlington county? In fact, pretty much anyone who bought before 2002 in DC area still is a winner, still can sell for profit as DC housing market is still quite strong hovering at 2003 to 2006 level depending on the location. There never been a buyer's market in the better part of DC area only with an exception of late 2008 and early 2009. Unfortunately, I was piss poor back then. Not taking a ninja loan while I can is why I am still renting I guess. Renters like me in DC area lost. Rent went u

I saw the same thing happening.

Leopold B Scotch says

Unless you house was built by a Frank Lloyd Wright, it depreciates absent inflationary economic policies that push unbacked money and credit through the system to interest sensitive assets, along with other house-ownership coddling policies that short-circuit the market's natural pricing self-governance. Just like most art on the walls of most all households is worth a fraction of what they paid.

Same for a car, unless it's a rare 57 chevy, or a RR, or something of high collector demand. ETC.

And who's arguing with that? But, and it's a rather big but, that is not what STL said. He can make his points in a reasoned and informed way like you do or he can do what he's been doing so far. It's his choice, though I'm pretty sure I know which path he's going to (continue to) take.

edvard2 says

I would disagree with this for a number of reasons. Basically because if you compare real estate to overall stocks in the long run stocks outperform real estate by a fairly good margin. In many circles its suggested to take as long as possible to pay off a house. In doing so you're taking the money you're not spending on a mortgage payment and putting it into investments that will over the long run give you more return. Likewise if you pay for a house with cash, your cash is then tied up to again- an investment that isn't going to perform as well and in many ways puts the money at more of a risk come something awful- like if you lost the house for some reason.

edvard2 says

But besides the point, if you're about to buy a house, in my opinion you should already have a sizable amount of not only cash, but retirement savings as well.

I think we have some "similar thought". The idea is to have lots of savings first, then buy a house. When you have more than enough cash to pay for house, you can choose to pay a portion of the price in cash, the rest in loans. But you know you have enough cash available to wipe it clean if you choose to.

Eventually, a paid for house relieve you from financial stress, and you can go about your life peacefully.

@edvard and the like of savings, retirement funds

Cash? What? It is just paper! Fiat. The country has major problems. Cash is paper with only the value we and the rest of the planet value it at. Recently I have read of other countries trading for oil in a basket of other currencies.

I would rather have clean water, food, shelter.

Cash? Think about what that really is.

What happened to the retirement funds 3, 4 years ago cAn happen again. I talk to some retirees who work at home depot because of a loss of retirement funds.

KILLERJANE says

Cash? Think about what that really is.

It's what you must get AFTER money, but BEFORE ho's...