patrick.net

Bap33 says

FYI, there are roughly 30,000 laws that restrict a particular sect of the American population - aimed at them exclusively - so, maybe you had another point? Like, maybe you think those who suffer from the mental disorder, or the birth defect, that results in deviant sexual behavior, deserve special treatment?

Name ONE that does not advance a legitimate state interest in doing so.

a high school kid gets a girl pregnant ? did the girl say , yes, I will marry you ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zablocki_v._Redhail

In 1972, Roger Redhail, then in high school, was sued in a paternity action in Milwaukee County, Wisconsin. He admitted he was the father, and the court ordered him to pay child support in the amount of $109 per month until the child reached eighteen years of age, plus court costs. Since Redhail was in high school at the time, he had no way to pay the court costs or child support. It went in arrears, reaching a total of $3,732 by the end of 1974. Meanwhile, Redhail's noncustodial child was a public charge, and received $109 per month as support from the State of Wisconsin.

In 1974, Redhail attempted to obtain a marriage license in Milwaukee County. Due to the aforementioned § 245.10(1), one of the agents of the county clerk denied his application because he did not have a court order allowing him to marry.

Redhail proceeded to file a class action suit against Thomas Zablocki, who was the county clerk of Milwaukee County (and whose official capacity was to issue such licenses) under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, and since the action sought a permanent injunction against the statute, 28 U.S.C. § 2281 required a three-judge court.

Welp, I guess you need to first define what you mean by "legitimate state interest". In the intrest of fair play, I'll agree upfront, ahead of time, right now, to whatever you define "legitimate state interest" to be. Please define it. Make it at an 8th grade level, please.

I have always been saying that heterosexual divorces are infinitely more harmful than homosexual marriages.

(Anything harmful is infinitely more harmful than something that is not harmful.)

very true

how many divorces are from one or the other "turning gay"? lol

and, nobody has any data on gay coupling longevity. I bet their swap-out rate is higher than black dudes and white chicks, as shared above.

Bap33 says

how many divorces are from one or the other "turning gay"? lol

And how many divorces are from one or the other who tried to 'pray away the gay' and failed? Just take a look at all the anti gay christianist preachers and activists who have been outed. I can only imagine how many this situation applies to, maybe even to yourself.

http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne

Bap33 says

how many divorces are from one or the other "turning gay"

I've know a few.

Known disproportionately to the population, lots more between straights.

I suppose it's difficult to have the statistics on gay divorces since same sex marriage is such a new thing.

But how sad and tragic that many gay people marry the opposite sex because of ignoring and suppressing their own god given sexual orientation due to social or religious pressure to do so! This only screws up the other spouse and any children of the marriage. Why encourage this?

Buster says

But how sad and tragic that many gay people marry the opposite sex because of ignoring and suppressing their own god given sexual orientation due to social or religious pressure to do so! This only screws up the other spouse and any children of the marriage. Why encourage this?

Very true indeed. Many a time following one's passion will lead to a better world for all!

This isn't a gay rights issue, its an issue of oppressive, bellegerent political tyranny.

Honest Abe says

This isn't a gay rights issue, its an issue of oppressive, bellegerent political tyranny.

Your correct, this isn't about the gays. It is about tyrannical christianist majority imposing their religious faith in a secular society. Look, I could care less what you feel about gay people, as it is your right to feel and speak whatever you wish. Just quit trampling on my rights simply because they conflict with your ancient belief system.

Bap33 says

Welp, I guess you need to first define what you mean by "legitimate state interest". In the intrest of fair play, I'll agree upfront, ahead of time, right now, to whatever you define "legitimate state interest" to be. Please define it. Make it at an 8th grade level, please.

hmmm .. dang, I was all horny for a beat down.

Honest Abe says

This isn't a gay rights issue, its an issue of oppressive, bellegerent political tyranny.

True. This is why I also stand with Chick-Fil-A.

Is anyone suprized that mass media has kissing queers "protesting" CFA all over the news cast, but didn't carry Becks party in Texas, nor the CFA support day? no? me either.

Bap33 says

Bap33 says

Welp, I guess you need to first define what you mean by "legitimate state interest". In the intrest of fair play, I'll agree upfront, ahead of time, right now, to whatever you define "legitimate state interest" to be. Please define it. Make it at an 8th grade level, please.

hmmm .. dang, I was all horny for a beat down.

State interest: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/State+Interest

A broad term for any matter of public concern that is addressed by a government in law or policy.

State legislatures pass laws to address matters of public interest and concern. A law that sets speed limits on public highways expresses an interest in protecting public safety. A statute that requires high school students to pass competency examinations before being allowed to graduate advances the state's interest in having an educated citizenry.

Although the state may have a legitimate interest in public safety, public health, or an array of other issues, a law that advances a state interest may also intrude on important constitutional rights. The U.S. Supreme Court has devised standards of review that govern how a state interest will be constitutionally evaluated.

When a law affects a constitutionally protected interest, the law must meet the Rational Basis Test. This test requires that the law be rationally related to a legitimate state interest. For example, a state law that prohibits a person from selling insurance without a license deprives people of their right to make contracts freely. Yet the law will be upheld because it is a rational means of advancing the state interest in protecting persons from fraudulent or unscrupulous insurance agents. Most laws that are challenged on this basis are upheld, as there is usually some type of reasonable relation between the state interest and the way the law seeks to advance that interest.

When a law or policy affects a fundamental constitutional right, such as the right to vote or the right to privacy, the Strict Scrutiny test will be applied. This test requires the state to advance a compelling state interest to justify the law or policy. Strict scrutiny places a heavy burden on the state. For example, in roe v. wade, 410 U.S. 113, 93 S. Ct. 705, 35 L. Ed. 2d 147 (1973), the state interest in protecting unborn children was not compelling enough to overcome a woman's right to privacy. When the state interest is not sufficiently compelling, the law is struck down as unconstitutional.

Unfortunately for the homophobes, anti civil equality laws written exclusively for the gays, don't even pass the easy to achieve Rational Basis Test.

I suggest that Bap 33, Thomas Wong, Honest Abe and others here really listen to a leading CONSERVATIVE lawyer, Ted Olson, (who is responsible for getting Bush II in office) speak on FOX NEWS, regarding the right to marriage, and the unconstitutionality of anti gay marriage laws. I can't say it any better or more plainly than Mr. Olson does in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/0OE-gNhcl6A&feature=related

dude (or miss) you just copy/pasted some crap. You define what it is, in your own words, on an 8th grade level, or quit - give up - and accept the loss sooner vs later. I have an excellant post all prepaired, once you define "legitimate state interest".
8th grade level, please.

Buster says

a leading CONSERVATIVE lawyer,

lol .. says who?

Another interview on the CONSERVATIVE case for gay marriage. Mr. Olson is considered by literally all, except for you, to be a leading conservative lawyer, who defended Reagan and Bush, a founding member of the Federalist Society as well as being the appointed Solicitor General appointed by Bush II, and board of directors of Spectator Magazine. To claim Theodore Olson is NOT a CONSERVATIVE is laughable and shows your complete lack of ignorance.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/DWp79jvy9aA&feature=related

Bap33 says

dude (or miss) you just copy/pasted some crap. You define what it is, in your own words, on an 8th grade level, or quit - give up - and accept the loss sooner vs later. I have an excellant post all prepaired, once you define "legitimate state interest".

8th grade level, please.

Ok, here it is on a 3rd grade level: The Declaration of Independence enshrines three basic rights: the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Buster says

To claim Theodore Olson is NOT a CONSERVATIVE is laughable and shows your complete lack of ignorance.

bwwaaa haaaa haa .... that reads kinda funny

Buster says

Honest Abe says

This isn't a gay rights issue, its an issue of oppressive, bellegerent political tyranny.

Your correct, this isn't about the gays. It is about tyrannical christianist majority imposing their religious faith in a secular society. Look, I could care less what you feel about gay people, as it is your right to feel and speak whatever you wish. Just quit trampling on my rights simply because they conflict with your ancient belief system.

You are right in saying that people should have the right to feel and speak whatever they wish... which is exactly what the CFA CEO did. So why is the gay community up in arms? the CFA did nothing to trample on their rights. Whether it was politically correct for the CFA CEO to say this in public is another issue.
The big problem are the stupid governors who are screaming bloody murder and threatening to stop any new stores from opening in their states. This is the political tyranny that need to be stopped.

Meccos says

The big problem are the stupid governors who are screaming bloody murder and threatening to stop any new stores from opening in their states. This is the political tyranny that need to be stopped.

I was not aware of this. It is highly unlikely that this company could be banned from opening a store anywhere unless they were not compliant with local laws and regulations. I am for once in agreement with you in this one instance and not in favor of banning CFA from any city. I would not want them in my neighborhood but I would not want KFC either as I think they serve crummy food and have ugly buildings. Actually, I think the CFA owner did gays a favor by further expressing his vitriol against the gay community in a public forum.

But really, who is bashing whom here? The gays simply want equal civil rights. We simply want to be left alone. You can't go around being a bully and not expect the bullied to react. After a while it becomes second nature. Stop with the madness. If you search your life you will discover that all of your discord with the gay community actually has nothing to do with us whatsoever. The discord lies within you. Bashing gays is only an outlet to transfer your own ill feelings about yourself onto another. Realistically, you know damn well that the fact that I am married has not a scintilla of impact on your life.

CFA is not a victim here. Nor are you. May I suggest you take a deep hard look at why you think that others, perfect strangers that you don't even know are out to get you and destroy your life? No, only you can do that to yourself. I suspect you are doing a fine job of that without any help from me.

Back to politicians screaming. Please, that's what the profession does. It is their job, at least for the last couple of decades. But lets get real. It is talk, posturing, free speech. Nothing will come of it. Just more blather to drown out the facts that the 1% has virtually manipulated everyone into fighting among themselves over manufactured 'problems' to create a distraction to get the attention away from their abject theft of the country.

Do you really believe for one second that any of the leaders of the GOP give a rats ass about gays? No. They could give a shit. Hell, half their friends are probably gay and many of them probably are gay themselves. They scream about the gays to get their base pumped up, distracted, jacked up on hate and ignorance. Like I said it works. It has with you. And I have wasted my time bickering with you over it. They have won. Others, some famous, and others infamous have stoked the base flames of bigotry and hate, often with quite murderous results. In the end, it merely served their own selfish purpose and intents.

But in the end, I have to fight on until I receive my equal civil rights. I will soon. You will simply then move on to the next manufactured battle that your leaders instruct you to fight. As for me, I will be done. Because I see through all the bullshit in the public square for what it is. And I simply do not care anymore. Once I get mine, which is just around the corner, I am taking my prize and going home. You already have yours, so you may want to also think very hard on why you need to have someone one rung down from you. Why you fight so hard and waste your limited time on earth on issues that simply don't matter to you. You may also think about why your leaders can so easily manipulate you, to get you all riled up for issues that don't even impact your life. I can only suspect that you must feel pretty low to be motivated to do this. In the end the missing links and feelings of poor self worth and inadequacy are all in you. No matter how hard you try to feel better about yourself by putting others down, you will always know the truth deep down, that it is you who is and feels less than. This will never go away until you confront this fact.

Buster says

The gays simply want equal civil rights. We simply want to be left alone. You can't go around being a bully and not expect the bullied to react.

wow ... a message directly from Backwards Universe. Up is down, good is evil, odd is normal.

Buster. I agree with you that everyone should just be left alone. I have no issues with gay marriage. Just as a gay person has a right to gay marriage, someone has the right to say they are against gay marriage. THe problem here is the protests and governors who come out on TV and state they will do whatever is in their power to prevent CFA from expanding in their states.

The ONLY thing the CEO of CFA did was state he did not believe in gay marriages. He did not ban gays from working there nor did he not refuse to serve gay people. Yet the gay community make such a stink about this. The gay community has been working so hard to have the freedom to do as they wish, yet they were so easy to trample on this CEO's right to free speech. This was total hypocrisy. It was stupid for the CEO to make such a statement on such a touchy social issue, but it was his EVERY RIGHT to do so.

I agree Meccos. He had every right to exercise his free speech rights and so did the people who responded to his remarks.

Free speech however does not exist in a vacuum. A quick reminder from Newton; To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

Or in second grade terminology: The anti gay christianists can dish it out but they can't take it. They need to grow some.

In other words, quit being such VICTIMS and grow up.

Meccos says

It was stupid for the CEO to make such a statement on such a touchy social issue,

wha? Judging what should be said? wow. That is the evil seed from which a mighty oak is grown. An oak from which a club shall be created. And then it is handed to some idiot that says the crap that makes anti-freedom devinats "feel better" and in control, and he will use that club, handed to him by the likes of you'uns, to beat humanity's freedom from the face of the earth - again - and "Dark Ages 2.0" will be in play. If you check, you will see that sodomites are not really happy during dark ages.

Your bedroom highjynx are only allowed because you are in a safe, secure, free society. Quit trying to make America the big gay hope. Just enjoy your deviant birth defect to it's fullest.

in other words, you should realize it is the Conservative Christian America that allows you to be who you are by securing your freedom and safety to practice your perversion on others suffering from the birth defect that causes dexiant sexual behavior. The America you and your kind are trying to create will not secure the freedom and safety of anyone that does not worship at the alter of Baal. Aint gonna happen fellas.

LOL. No, you should thank your lucky stars that ancient myths such as religion of the world are tolerated under our laws. The very concept of our country was to protect religious and other minorities not tolerated in state religion counties such as the old British Empire. Remember our forefathers escaped to the new world so that they could worship and live as they pleased, away from the dictates of a state religion that you yourself are trying to impose on everyone regardless of their faith.

I should also state here for the record that there are many christian churches who do marry gay people so the anti gay laws you support are also denying their free expression of their religion.

Hell, our laws even make religions such as Scientology and Mormonism safe in the public square, as they should be. But even Mormonism has such bizarre beliefs of the planet star Kolob, spirit travelers, Celistial Sex, the garden of eden in Jackson County, MO and Xenu and the Galatic Confederacy and Thetans. I mean, I suspect that you are going to freely vote for one of these believers.

No, the religious of the US should thank their lucky stars and support diversity of thought or they would be one of the first groups locked up for their crazy beliefs.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/DZ_448pz2MI

As for me, I would much prefer the more practical approach of Canada.

Bap33 says

The America you and your kind are trying to create will not secure the freedom and safety of anyone that does not worship at the alter of Baal. Aint gonna happen fellas.

Yea, I suppose you are correct. If Romney gets voted in we will all be transported to the Star Kolob to worship at the feet of Elohim with his many sex slave wives.

no miss, I am voting against Lord Barry. My possible "for" vote was removed when Herman Cain and Michelle B was forced out.

Are you voting for the Obama that is against, or for, the unnatural sodomoite coupling being recognized by the Gov?

Buster says

I agree Meccos. He had every right to exercise his free speech rights and so did the people who responded to his remarks.

Free speech however does not exist in a vacuum. A quick reminder from Newton; To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction.

Or in second grade terminology: The anti gay christianists can dish it out but they can't take it. They need to grow some.

Surely everyone can exercise their rights to stop going to CFA after this remark. That is their right to respond to the comments made by the CEO. HOWEVER the governors from several states who threaten to stop CFA from expanding in their states is a complete abuse of power and is not acceptable. This was my main point...

Meccos says

You are right in saying that people should have the right to feel and speak whatever they wish... which is exactly what the CFA CEO did. So why is the gay community up in arms? the CFA did nothing to trample on their rights.

The gay community isn't up in arms that CFA's CEO exercised free speech. Gays as well as many straight Americans who believe in equal rights are exercising their freedom of speech to boycott CFA because that business does trample on other people's rights by financially supporting anti-equality organizations. Money you spend at CFA on crappy food goes to organizations that lobby for bigotry in legislation.

From http://www.policymic.com/articles/12219/all-the-anti-gay-companies-you-fund-when-you-spend-5-25-on-a-chick-fil-a-sandwich

If we’re going to talk about Chick-fil-A, let’s talk seriously about why President Dan Cathy is being criticized for being anti-gay. This is about more than just rhetoric: it’s about money. In 2010, the most recent year records are available; Cathy gave almost $2 million to anti-gay organizations through the WinShape Foundation, Chick-fil-A’s charitable arm.

So let me put this in terms that republican voters can understand.

Image there is a restaurant called NoChicks-fil-A's that is run by PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Now image that PETA takes the profits from NoChicks-fil-A's and uses it lobby, directly or indirectly, to eradicate all hunting in the United States.

Some of the laws that get pass because of that lobbying take away hunting licenses and limits the guns and ammo that people can buy. Of course, the ultimate goal of the lobbying funded by NoChicks-fil-A's is to get a federal ban on hunting through the Defense of Mammals Act (DOMA), and a repeal of the second amendment and a ban on all guns and rifles.

Needless to say, this would piss you guys off. You might even boycott NoChicks-fil-A's and try to get municipalities and states to block expansion of this restaurant. In other words, you would do everything the opponents of Chicks-fil-A's are doing now because you guys are gay on guns and hunting.

And you'll all be shouting that you have to protect your Constitutional rights. And that is exactly what the other side is doing right now.

You can stop right there. I'm good with that...

Dan8267 says

So let me put this in terms that republican voters can understand.

Image there is a restaurant called NoChicks-fil-A's that is run by PETA, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Now image that PETA takes the profits from NoChicks-fil-A's and uses it lobby, directly or indirectly, to eradicate all hunting in the United States.

Dan8267 says

The gay community isn't up in arms that CFA's CEO exercised free speech.

wrong. oposite is correct.

peta ... worse than the sierra club as far as hipocrits go. Since hunting feeds people, controls population and disease of animals, and keeps pest populations in check, I just dont equate it to forcing the public to accept the gov sanctioned abuse of special needs people at the hands of perverts and the mentally ill. That is sick. Hunting is a healthy sport, does great things, the tags pay for programs, and just may keep one alive in hard times.

How you doing Dan? Catch the race today from Pocono?

Dan8267 says

Money you spend at CFA on crappy food goes to organizations that lobby for bigotry in legislation.

Hey first of all, CFA food is not crappy. Its much better than McDs.

Now i didnt read your entire post cuz it was boring me but I did catch this...Dan8267 says

You might even boycott NoChicks-fil-A's and try to get municipalities and states to block expansion of this restaurant.

Boycotting CFA is fine, everyone has the right to do so, but for someone in political power such as those governors who publically state they will do EVERYTHING in their powers to keep CFA out of their state is a complete misuse of their power and not be tolerated. Its a dangerous slippery slope...

Dan8267 says

So let me put this in terms that republican voters can understand.

ALso what is it with you liberals hatred of the republicans? How do you know Im a repub? Because you disagree with what I say and since you are a liberal, then by default I am and repub? HAHAH sorry not a repub...

Typical liberal...

I hope you got the sarcasm...

ditto.

Meccos says

Dan8267 says

So let me put this in terms that republican voters can understand.

ALso what is it with you liberals hatred of the republicans? How do you know Im a repub? Because you disagree with what I say and since you are a liberal, then by default I am and repub? HAHAH sorry not a repub...

Typical liberal...

I hope you got the sarcasm...

Bap33 says

peta ...

You're missing the point. You're suppose to read what I wrote and realize that scenario is basically to you what the status quo is the gay community.

Meccos says

Hey first of all, CFA food is not crappy. Its much better than McDs.

That endorsement reminds me of the old MAD TV skit, "ten percent less anal leakage".

Meccos says

Dan8267 says

So let me put this in terms that republican voters can understand.

ALso what is it with you liberals hatred of the republicans?

I was referring to all the republicans here complaining about the gay community denouncing CFA. Not everything revolves around you.

However, if you must know. The thing that "is it with us liberals hatred of the republicans" is that you can't type a coherent, sensible sentence. I've met lolcats with better communications skills.

Nevertheless, I can tell, Mecoss, that you are a republican despite your denial because you use the word "liberal" as if it had shit on it. Only republicans do that.