patrick.net

mr green says

The dems have destroyed the state.

prop 13 destroyed the state. that's right! big money has won again!

Yes, the Democrats, Prop 13, Mello Roos, local governments (city of Bell!)... all have destroyed California Dream!

bmwman91 says

The labor groups already have VASTLY more representation in CA government, and we have the results for all to see. This would dial down their influence to a level closer to that of the "nefarious, evil" private enterprise boogeymen that the opponents all love to name-drop.

We have a similar political dynamic here in the Rust Belt. Any attempt to dial back the power of *public sector* unions is seen as an attack on *all unions.*

"You don't want teachers to strike? Well then, you're no different than a Pinkerton thug at the Battle of Homestead!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike

bgamall4 says

You have been brainwashed by Wall Street. Pension funding can be easily fixed by upping the contributions of current workers. Wall Street wants one thing, power to get the money before Calpers, who has the legal right according to the laws of California.

Most of the websites who are actively bashing Calpers have an adgenda or get funded by Wall Street. That also is fact.

Edit: one more thing, most of the publications opposing calpers are for privatization of all government, and that is also Wall Street.

The CalPERs fund only returned 1% last year, thanks to Benanke, equities are pretty much finished as an asset class for pension funds.

Yes, you could ask for more contributions, but you might have better luck getting blood from a rock. Most cities in California already have budget problems with the current contributions, and are having to layoff CURRENT workers just to support those who are already retired. CalPERs is already doomed despite what you, or I, might argue.

That's not "brain washing", that's simple math. CalPERs doesn't sound like a system that is fiscally maintainable, and no one in their right mind would want to keep it around unless they were part of that system, or already retired.

Another middle class taxpayer leaving. First week of November I'm moving my family out of state. I can't imagine inflicting the Los Angeles school system on my kids. My state tax burden will be cut in half. I'm moving to a property that's got 20 times the land and 3x the living space for the same money. My wife and I will no longer be criminals for carrying firearms for self defense. Also, my vote will actually make a difference in elections. I always wanted to live in California, but 15 years after moving here, I'm just done.

Nospam says

Another middle class taxpayer leaving. First week of November I'm moving my family out of state. I can't imagine inflicting the Los Angeles school system on my kids. My state tax burden will be cut in half. I'm moving to a property that's got 20 times the land and 3x the living space for the same money. My wife and I will no longer be criminals for carrying firearms for self defense. Also, my vote will actually make a difference in elections. I always wanted to live in California, but 15 years after moving here, I'm just done.

Best to you and yours. Smart move.

Goran_K says

The CalPERs fund only returned 1% last year, thanks to Benanke, equities are pretty much finished as an asset class for pension funds.

I thought that with their investment mix that they are counting on a typical 7% annual return. What gives?

pfft. CA schools are terrible, or below average as the reports put it. That's not a generalization that's a fact.

Nospam says

Another middle class taxpayer leaving. First week of November I'm moving my family out of state. I can't imagine inflicting the Los Angeles school system on my kids. My state tax burden will be cut in half. I'm moving to a property that's got 20 times the land and 3x the living space for the same money. My wife and I will no longer be criminals for carrying firearms for self defense. Also, my vote will actually make a difference in elections. I always wanted to live in California, but 15 years after moving here, I'm just done.

Enjoy your major quality of life upgrade and all the extra money you will now have to spend. I am suprised you managed to stick it out for 15 years in this dump.

dublin hillz says

I thought that with their investment mix that they are counting on a typical 7% annual return. What gives?

Remember, the CalPERs fund returned 1% NOMINALLY, meaning in real terms, it actually lost a lot money.

Retirement funds, both public and private, are now seriously underfunded because their investments have failed to produce profits.

The problem with CalPErs is that state and local governments are obliged to make up the difference. A safety net if you will. This is why there is a crisis in public retirement funding. Private funds simply go away.

CalPERS is merely the biggest canary in the coal mine. Arguing about whether CalPERs needs to go away is like arguing about a corpse on the road that's been hit with an 18-wheeler, on whether it will walk again. CalPERs died in 2008. What is left is a heavy stinky shell of what it used to be, and it needs to be put into the garbage where it belongs before it makes things worse.

Goran_K says

Retirement funds, both public and private, are now seriously underfunded because their investments have failed to produce profits.

I don't believe in anyone but myself handing my family money and this is a reason I would never go to a so-called advisor for any funds or stocks.

Yes, they have failed to produce profits but certain organized theives have surely known how to push people into such shite, take their cut while many have lost everything.

The term financial advisor to me is so arsehole ridiculous. My take is if that person knows so much about making money they wouldn't be telling others how to do it for a fee, they would do it themselves with their own money.

Reader says

I don't believe in anyone but myself handing my family money and this is a reason I would never go to a so-called advisor for any funds or stocks.

Yes, they have failed to produce profits but certain organized theives have surely known how to push people into such shite, take their cut while many have lost everything.

The term financial advisor to me is so arsehole ridiculous. My take is if that person knows so much about making money they wouldn't be telling others how to do it for a fee, they would do it themselves with their own money.

Well to be fair, some funds are well run, by people interested in making their clients money. This is proven by their year by year performance numbers.

The biggest problem with CalPERs is that it has a public safety net built into it. If CalPERs were simply allowed to prosper or perish on the weight of its accomplishments, then I would have no problem with it, but to put the burden of its failures on tax payers is ridiculous.

Waitingtobuy said: And no, Prop 32 is not the solution. Read up on it...it's a power grab. If it pertained to ALL corporations and ALL unions, I might be for it. It isn't. Super PACS, Wall St firms, hedge funds, and LLCs are all exempt from the law.
Now you're being a bit silly. Nobody is exempted. Citizens United allows ANY entity (union, corporation, person) to contribute to a SuperPAC. Your beef is with the US Supreme Court, not Prop 32 (and BTW, I will join you in protesting Citizens United).
"I've sat in all of those backroom meetings," she says. "That thing, if walls could talk, well think of me as a wall, and I'm talking. I've had it... Ms. Romero believes the only way to bring down the public unions—and "they will be brought down, they must be brought down"—is to go after "what feeds the beast." In other words: payroll deductions." former state senator Gloria Romero of Democrats for Education Reform, Prop 32 supporter.

Goran_K says

The biggest problem with CalPERs

I see, but I know nothing about CalPERs. In general you see I just don't trust anyone handling my money for a fee.

Reader says

The term financial advisor to me is so arsehole ridiculous. My take is if that person knows so much about making money they wouldn't be telling others how to do it for a fee, they would do it themselves with their own money.

That's why I do not have a "financial advisor." :-)

Nospam said: My state tax burden will be cut in half. I'm moving to a property that's got 20 times the land and 3x the living space for the same money.

And property taxes?

EBGuy says

Now you're being a bit silly. Nobody is exempted. Citizens United allows ANY entity (union, corporation, person) to contribute to a SuperPAC. Your beef is with the US Supreme Court, not Prop 32 (and BTW, I will join you in protesting Citizens United).

Actually, this article does a good job of laying out who is exempted from Prop 32. http://www.sbsun.com/pointofview/ci_21635501/proposition-32-is-phony-reform

Corporations are barred from payroll deductions, but they don't use them anyway.

Who is funding the Prop? Are they doing this out of the goodness of their own hearts?

So, the argument against 32 is that unions should have the same corrupt lobbying abilities as crime lords and corporations, and they should continue to have unilateral power of involuntary and unlimited payroll withdrawals over their members to fund whatever they see fit anyway they see fit.

Without corrupt powers of lobbying, the unions can never properly and competitively influence politicians under the table as an end run around taxpayer approval so that they in essence, can control the financial pot by continuing to bribe the politicians.

Without these special corrupting, lobbying powers, the process is just so much more inefficient. It would force the poor unions to actually argue the merits before the taxpayers when otherwise they can simply buy the politicians. It is terrible that taxpayers and voters would actually remove that power to influence and corrupt the politicians from our selfless teachers and government workers, who are only corrupting the pols for the good of the taxpayer, even if the taxpayer does not know or acknowledge this selfless act.

The only slight difference is that corporations are TAXPAYERS and the unions are TAXSUCKEES who are bankrupting our cities, counties and state. The TAXSUCKEES simply want the power to corrupt on an equal footing with the TAXPAYERS, they don't care a bit if the corporations rob us blind in some other venue, honor amongst thieves and all that.

Those are some great selling points for voting against 32, I vote for equal opportunity corruption, no on 32! So glad the unions are taking the high road again!

I have another couple years in the Bay Area before I move to somewhere with affordable housing. As a non-native of this area I have to say that I won't miss it a bit but I am greatful to have rented here. There is no other place I could have saved up so much money so fast by renting and saving. It's because of the Bay Area that I will be able to have such a high quality of living when I move away.

drew_eckhardt says

40% of all high-tech venture spending in America goes into the San Francisco Bay Area so being here maximizes one's chances of doing interesting things for a company with a viable business plan at the right point in its life cycle with a big enough equity share to stop needing to work for money.

Apart from having great sports medicine doctors to put you back together nothing matters more - not beaches, not taxes, not home prices.

As bonuses the weather makes for pleasant bicycling year round and the ethnic food is good.

Wasnt this true back in the 60s 70s 80s and up to the mid 90s ? Except home prices were lower and govt policies fostered growth.

Strategic Renter, did you rent "Falling Down" before coming out?

Strategic Renter says

The middle class is leaving California

also true:
California is leaving the middle class.

Californians are leaving the middle class.

If you and your family need change in California, you must vote the democrats out of office and out of power. You must starve their networks of money and influence from the top down.

Otherwise, our youth all going to be living in cramped 200sqft closets mortgaged for $500k+, while the Joe Bidens, Nancy Pelosis, Barbara Boxers, Elizabeth Warrens and Diane Feinsteins of the world look down, smiling, on us little people from their fraudulently-priced, taxpayer-supported $2m shacks.

The democrats' policies against young people are not ones of stupidity or ignorance. They are of intentional theft, intentional fraud, and intentional malice. The DNC must be destroyed.

Cliches are so passe.

B.A.C.A.H. says

also true:
California is leaving the middle class.

Californians are leaving the middle class.

So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

Reader says

So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

"As goes California, so goes the nation."

Or something like that.

freak80 says

Reader says

So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

"As goes California, so goes the nation."

Or something like that.

No, I think what goes on in Wackoville the rest of the Nation now will watch and learn. The last ten to fifteen years I think has altered perception.

lostand confused says

Cliches are so passe.

And in my view so is California.

Reader says

lostand confused says

Cliches are so passe.

And in my view so is California.

California is a cliche.

E-man says

Could it be that you couldn't make it here?

That's a rather rude statement. It's probably a smart move for a state that is moving towards the direction where only the rich and poors can afford to stay. One would need to make so much, for e.g., in bay area, to be classified as middle class compared to other states. Common conversation for a typical income of 250K in bay area are always housing prices, stock markets, else where, like East Coast, anything but constant preoccupation with money. At one point, ones really need to think if you live to make money or you make money to live.

SparrowBell says

At one point, ones really need to think if you live to make money or you make money to live.

EVERYONE on Patrick.net should read THAT line! Because there are plenty of money loving hungry greedy bastards on here who either live in a dream world or just to me live to fuck people over.

Either way, it all comes back ten-fold so I pity each of them.

And furthermore regarding that "make it here?" remark. There is no "making it" pal if "making it" means living amongst 99% of a population that is welfare and spending 500K or worse 800K to live in a shack. THAT is just plain stupidity in my book.

We've been in North Bay, north of San Fran, for 10 years now.

We still like it - moderate tempts, water and hills nearby, no mosquitos, etc.

But the taxes here are absurd - from extra dollop of tax on every gallon of gas to ~1.25% per year on full valuation of properties (in the nations most expensive housing market so collections are monstrous) to income taxes now topping the 10.8% bracket. We paid almost 8% in state income taxes last year...that tax alone could rent a modest place in Florida (where we have lotsa' family) and elsewhere. Florida has 0% income tax, too.

I try not to calculate how many actual dollars we've paid in income taxes these 10 years. We've lived in Washington DC and metro NY previously so we're no strangers to high taxes and relatively high living costs...but California takes it to a whole new plain.

For now, we're happy here all in all. But I'm thinking there's somewhere else in our future to come as this is kinda' madness spending this much in such a poorly governed state.

jsmarket says

.that tax alone could rent a modest place in Florida (where we have lotsa' family) and elsewhere. Florida has 0% income tax, too.

But I know from my family in FL you may not pay some of the same but you WILL be hit with outragious electric bills you must run AC 24/7. Food and gas are higher than Manhattan. Schools are a mess. And real estate is still grossly with a capital G overpriced. SO in my opinion don't buy the bullshite. FL is not what it was in 1965.

bgamall4 says

Again, what is your stake in seeing Calpers destroyed?

It is already "destroyed" because it is a failed, and ridiculous system that puts tax payers on the hook for any investment failures. I had no part in that at all, it was simply "self fulfilling" if you will.

freak80 says

bmwman91 says

The labor groups already have VASTLY more representation in CA government, and we have the results for all to see. This would dial down their influence to a level closer to that of the "nefarious, evil" private enterprise boogeymen that the opponents all love to name-drop.

We have a similar political dynamic here in the Rust Belt. Any attempt to dial back the power of *public sector* unions is seen as an attack on *all unions.*

"You don't want teachers to strike? Well then, you're no different than a Pinkerton thug at the Battle of Homestead!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike

The big problem back home is that EVERYTHING is viewed through that 100 year (or more) old frame of reference. Every year is 1932, every Democratic president is FDR and every labor action is the big sit down strike of 1936-1937. It's even that way among the younger folks because they've become so dependent on the old folks for jobs and survival that whatever the old fart becomes gospel whether it's actually true or not.

I'm SO glad I moved out of there.

My wife and I are both professionals. We were paying well north of $1000/month in state income taxes. We left California in 2006 for Texas. I think the taxes really impact the middle and upper middle classes. The rich can afford it. But, if you and your wife are making $90,000 to $200,000 the taxes are very painful. They force you to give up a lot of things. These are the people leaving.

bgamall4 says

You are still not disclosing your interest in having Calpers fail. What is your Wall Street connection? I guarantee you have one.

I used to work at Goldman Sachs. :)

bgamall4 says

Don't let the door hit you in the rear. I know folks who make in the200k range and they are doing pretty well.

Lol

You're squabbling with someone about California taxes using a "my friend said..." argument?!?

THAT'S a sound position.

anon12366 says

The democrats' policies against young people are not ones of stupidity or ignorance. They are of intentional theft, intentional fraud, and intentional malice. The DNC must be destroyed.

Finally somebody that gets it.
While the republicans are vile in their own right, their agendas only negatively effect the current moment. All of their ailments are easily treatable by one single vote.

It is the Democrats that do a far more insidious destruction on Democracy. They are the ones that want to carve out factions and assign life time roles to different segments of the population.

You'll never see the Liberals trying to run the Shit on Haitian or Jamaican communities they try run rough shod over the American black constituents.
They have American black constituents convinced they are worthless and it is fine if they are lawless, because it's the White republican fault.
Then they leave them with... "Don't change, never change, the checks in the mail." Meanwhile Haitian and Jamaican families are working on buying their third and fourth home, while the father works three jobs, and the wife works two jobs. With in another ten years, they'll own a fleet of taxis, or a monopoly on Caribbean AM radio in their market.

Our poor poor Black Americans it's got to be the skin, but how do Islanders skirt this impediment?