patrick.net

Oxygen says

Why does this unfair issue persist under the guise of fairness to the
child?
It reduces welfare.

Yup, actually CA is better than most in this regard. Once you prove through DNA, that the child is not yours, you stop paying. But many states-eg FL-force you to pay up , even though DNA has proven that the woman lied. Instead of the woman being charged with fraud, you pay up for the reminder of that child's life-until he/she reaches 18 . What fraud-back in the day, such women were tarred and feathered-now the govt under threat of arrest and seizure of your assets forces you to pay such a woman. Then you wonder many men are starting to lose respect for women in general.

These laws brought on by the feminists-ironically under the guise of equality-are the sole cause of this mess. Govt should get out of this and marraige should be a private affair-if you split you move on and forge your own path. But of course, any suggestion asking women to act as equals and stand on their own two feet gets you labelled as a misogynist.

a factor that hasnt been discussed yet is dowries.

as a Chinese American born here, I am also subject to Chinese traditions. so not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family, I also get subjected to American divorce laws.

Oxygen says

a factor that hasnt been discussed yet is dowries.

as a Chinese American born here, I am also subject to Chinese traditions. so not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family, I also get subjected to American divorce laws.

Go gay and neither of those will be a problem for you.

(there's a reason the word for happy now means homosexual)

BayArea says

As a side note, I am really curious about the following. What is the divorce rate assuming the following:

Both Members are devout Catholic ?

Both Members are devout Christian ?

Both Members are devout Muslim ?

Both Members are Atheist ?

Members don't share religious beliefs ?

Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

it appears if neither of you belong to a faith group, your marriage has a better chance of surviving. BTW, the 'non denominational' evangelical divorce rate is reported to be upwards of 34%. Ironic, huh?

Advice for a young man about relationships. First of all my wife and I have differing religious views and it has not been a problem as we never tried to force each other into it, we accepted our differences there.

Things I've learned over years is that relationship is kind of like a full time career job. You go into it knowing nothing, and you learn it as you go with it. And you learn to accept each others little quarks and learn all the unspoken rules.

You get out of it what you put into it. And most important thing is to never quit trying to be the best you can be for your wife and she'll reciprocate.

Make sure you and your potential mate both have same goals for the family future, otherwise your boat will not go anywhere if you are rowing in opposite directions.

BayArea says

To be honest, I am a bit discouraged at just how many people I know who don't seem to be too happy in their marriages. It always seems to be the same story. Things started off great. There was excitement, adventure, strong physical and emotional chemistry. Then 2-3yrs into it, those feels started to fade. Some couples moved on to the next phase of their lives and had some glue, er I mean kids which kept things fresh and exciting.

Relationships are hard work, if you both don't work at it, it will fail.

BayArea says

As a side note, I am really curious about the following. What is the divorce rate assuming the following:

Both Members are devout Catholic ?

Both Members are devout Christian ?

Both Members are devout Muslim ?

Both Members are Atheist ?

Members don't share religious beliefs ?

Arranged marriages have the lowest divorce rate since it is a marriage based on finances, not emotions.

Oxygen says

Arranged marriages have the lowest divorce rate since it is a marriage based on finances, not emotions.

So in an arraigned marriage your partner is less likely to complain if you fool around?

Oxygen says

not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family

Anyone here who actually does that is extremely stupid, and desperate.

my wifes dad gave me a 2 chickens and a mule for taking his daughter off his hands. Seemed fair at the time.

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

Bap33 says

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

See, I KNEW you'd come around ;)

New Renter says

Bap33 says

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

See, I KNEW you'd come around ;)

Yeah, apart from the additional benefits like Social security, medicare, insurance etc. etc. not having the govt in your private business is a Godsend.

You can be together 1 day or 15 years and it is the two of you who decide how you part -not some judge and lawyers or the govt. I think staright and gay marraige should meet half way-we take on their freedom and they get the benefits of straight marraige!

zzyzzx says

BRP001 says

Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada.

Exactly how does one do this?

I am a woman and I want to know how to do this. I get anxious thinking that one day, he could walk away and take half of everything I have worked so hard for.

This happened to a
female executive I know. Her deadbeat husband promised to get a job after the kids were out. He decided it would be best to take a very, very early retirement. She was having none of that, but it cost her dearly.

zzyzzx says

Oxygen says

not only am I required to pay $75k to the wife's family

Anyone here who actually does that is extremely stupid, and desperate.

operative word: required.

also, guess who gets to pay for the wedding

In other news, 86 year old Hugh hefner just married a 26 year old lady.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20655820,00.html?xid=rss-topheadlines

rufita11 says

zzyzzx says

BRP001 says

Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada.

Exactly how does one do this?

I am a woman and I want to know how to do this. I get anxious thinking that one day, he could walk away and take half of everything I have worked so hard for.

This happened to a

female executive I know. Her deadbeat husband promised to get a job after the kids were out. He decided it would be best to take a very, very early retirement. She was having none of that, but it cost her dearly.

There is no guaranteed way. If you can, don't get married and have a life union with your own contract(s) which you still need, just not being married is not enough. If you must get married, then you need an ironclad prenup and likely also a postnup. But parts of those can be tossed out when push comes to shove. Lastly, if you have friends you can trust you can distribute your money in business entities (better if they are foreign) not managed (owned) by you, but with some sort of guarantee that you get regular distributions from them, like from a trust or such. Probably best to pay a really good and expensive lawyer/accountant who has lots of experience with this.

The problem with most marriages in America is that they are owned by the state. When the state is absent from a marriage, a couple can live happily ever after.
The trick is finding a minister that is not a ward of the state.
Or, if you believe in God, just find a witness to document your wedding vows.
You may be limited in commerce, but the freedom is worth it.

carrieon says

The trick is finding a minister that is not a ward of the state.

wife stops working. then she becomes ex-wife and receives alimony and child support. she finds another man, has a Jewish wedding called ketubah ("commitment ceremony"), but not a legal American wedding. Since she is not remarried in the eyes of the American system, her alimony does not cease. The other man is living off the ex-husbands alimony and child support payments. he also gets the pussy for free and none of the legal responsibilities.

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/08/prominent-investor-gets-screwed-by-ex-wifes-lawyering-skills/

Oxygen says

also, guess who gets to pay for the wedding

I assume that you mean that the man does as well.

Oxygen-You must be from the wrong province in China. Apparantely in Fujian province, it is the girl that pays the dowry. Here a father pays a $150 million dollar dowry for his daughter- 150 million USD!!!

http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/150-million-dowry-chinese-businessman-8217-daughter-183400982.html

Bap33 says

my wifes dad gave me a 2 chickens and a mule for taking his daughter off his hands. Seemed fair at the time.

Funniest thing Bap has ever said on this site.

Gotta give props where props are due.

Bap33 says

Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

Sounds like a good date night.

Isn't that exactly what you call "deviant behavior"?

New Renter says

Bap33 says

this thread does make that whole go-gay thing seem more logical. It I hooked up with a rich dude, life is good ... well, other than date night. Date night would be a pain in the ass, and really suck.

See, I KNEW you'd come around ;)

Damn, you beat me to it!

zzyzzx says

Straight out of the Bible. Exodus 21:7-11 NLT

Just keep in mind, women can fall off the cliff every month.

Lol, rampant feminism, loud mouths, mostly terrible money management, all the laws favor them, not something I need around. Notice when countries debt problems started, feminism was really taking off. People will get it one day, but not yet. When Russia changed it's alimony/support laws the men went drinking. I laugh when people say relationship is work, I just think, so much for teamwork, last I checked hooking two horses up to the plow should make the job easier on the one, not so, instead you double the load and the man pulls it. Reminds me of all my girlfriends who only call on me when they want something, otherwise they are out chasing the bad boys around town, to funny. Who is always pushing for marriage?, yup the girl, she knows it's a contract and she's going to win when she breaks it.

"For the guys that are married now or have been married, I'm wondering what your experience has been and if you could give a newly engaged man (hypothetical to me since I am not engaged) any piece of advise or wisdom, what would it be?"

1. Read Athol Kay's books. You'll immediately understand why Charlie Sheen spent a small fortune on Call Girls.

2. If a woman you're dating and having sex with gives you the "why buy the cow if you get the milk for free" line, run, don't walk away. The women who spew that moronic line don't give two s**ts about f**king, and view "the deed" as a chore, and when necessary a method of control.

3. If you really feel like she's "the one," try to hard-sell her on living together for a couple years before getting married. The neurotics and otherwise low self-esteem/dysfunctional gals will balk at this because they know their facade is unmaintainable 24/7 when you cohabitate--(you'll see the "real her")

4. Get a few books on prenups and then stick to your guns.

5. MOST IMPORTANT!! If you don't have YOUR OWN LIFEPLAN FOR YOURSELF constructed, strategized and galvonized--and aren't seriously moving forward in it, you've got no business planning a future with a woman, period. Get your plan nailed-down first--THEN find a woman with an at least somewhat parallel plan. NEVER, EVER build your plan around a woman. Women want a man WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHERE HE'S GOING, although they will periodically "test" us to see if they can knock us off our path. Again, secretly they want us to say stay on our path and not take any of their s**t, although of course they will deny this with their last breath.

DOC

That and men need an alternative. The dems are so pro feminist, that just being a man is a crime for them. Obama is a genius at pandering to them to get the votes. The repubs are batsh*t crazy and want women like they were in the 50s.

Most of us just want equality. We fully accept women as equals-just want them to act as equal and be responsible for their own lives. If they make choices-wether that be working or staying at home and living the high life-then they and they alone face the responsibility. We need someone logical and sensible to epouse for us .

Dr Strangelove says

3. If you really feel like she's "the one," try to hard-sell her on living together for a couple years before getting married. The neurotics and otherwise low self-esteem/dysfunctional gals will balk at this because they know their facade is unmaintainable 24/7 when you cohabitate--(you'll see the "real her")

That's a good and important one - can only recommend it ;)

The men on here are seriously damaged, lonely people.

Kevin says

The men on here are seriously damaged, lonely people.

Or hen pecked sissies who have no clue about what a man is supposed to be.

lostand confused says

Kevin says

The men on here are seriously damaged, lonely people.

Or hen pecked sissies who have no clue about what a man is supposed to be.

Or lost and confused ;)

Married 29 years as on 12/31/2012. It is as much or as little as you make of it. Try to take less than you give.

Kevin says

The men on here are seriously damaged, lonely people.

Aren't you yourself a man "on here"?

61.1% of [Japanese] men said they did not want their partners to have a secret savings account. On the other hand, 64.7% of [Japanese] women said they planned on making a secret savings account.

http://www.japancrush.com/2012/stories/women-still-want-control-of-family-finances-reveals-survey.html

New Renter says

Kevin says

The men on here are seriously damaged, lonely people.

Aren't you yourself a man "on here"?

I'm the exception that proves the rule.

Kevin says

The men on here are seriously damaged, lonely people.

Married for 20 years, Dec 26th.

There does seem to be a lot of single guys or at least not married guys commenting here.
Never take marriage advice from a divorcee or unmarried dude.
I was working abroad one year, and my wife was really putting me through the emotional wringer over it. Rather than tell me that she was uncomfortable with my working out of the country or that she missed me, she instead deflected her feelings by picking a fight and threatening a divorce. I was talking with a guy that I had a few drinks with at the exec lounge, that I had seen around and gotten friendly with. Because he was the only other American. He was a business man there to expand his companies markets. A fat balding sad and lonely looking soul.
He was giving me advice...

"If you want her to come around, then don't call her..."
"Don't call her for a few days, that will straighten her out."

I asked him if he was married. He said "no I'm divorced, but I've been married three times. "

I bought a plane ticket and flew back that night. I didn't want to end up being that guy.

Wow, the response has been overwhelming and thanks to everyone for sharing.

There does seem to be quite a bit of negative (even bitter) sentiment on marriage here. Much of that certainly depends on what your experience has been. If you feel like you've been burned, it's understandable that your outlook will be that of caution and/or resentment and I appreciate the feedback. Regardless of where you stand on this issue, it sounds like the law is generally not in favor of the bread winner which is more often that not, the man. Do you guys remember the flack that Steve Young (former 49ers QB) for never agreeing to marry his partner despite being together for years and having kids together? It's a bit more clear now.

One concept that is interesting to me (it was mentioned above with Korea) is that as women's equality continues to catch up with their male counterpart, the divorce rate goes up. We often portray traditional roles as a positive thing that helped keep marriage together, but that also begs the question... Did marriages have a higher rate of staying together in those traditional roles because the women didn't have as many options? That's hard to dispute. But one thing is for sure, teams work best when there is a leader and a strong supporting cast. When people know their unique roles, accept them, and respect other member's roles, things generally work well. If you have two members that constantly think they are the alpha, they are the leader, they do this or that better, it's going to result in problems.

Here are some key points that stand out. Always expect less than you give and be ok with it. Don't be ok with 90/10, but be ok with 60/40 because a 50/50 expectation will naturally sway to one side too frequently. Next, we all agree that sex generally slows down. As a result, you must be friends with your wife. I will say that is a fine line because I did have a relationship fail once because we became better friends than lovers. And that caused all sorts of unexpected relationship problems. I loved spending time with her and we always had a blast, but I lost some of my romantic interest in her. Third, it's the man's job to keep things romantic!

Someone above mentioned something about having your wild oats sown before getting married. That's a slippery slope. Statistics show that the less sexual partners an individual has had in their life, the less likely they are to divorce. I personally don't believe in the, "I got that out of my system and now ready to get married" mentality. If you felt the need to "get that out of my system" then you have that in your system.

Also, I always considered guys like Charlie Sheen to be a socially deviant monster. Then I got into my 30s, read more and more responses like the ones here, and don't judge him anymore, lol.

And jebus, the Hulk Hogan situation. Don't even get me started. OJ actually comes to mind... As Chris Rock mentioned in the stand-up bit that included Ron Goldman being spotted driving around Nicole's Ferrari around town that OJ bought her..., "I'm not saying what OJ did was right, but I understand." Hats off to Hulk for keeping a level head and never doing anything drastic (kidding about the Chris Rock part).

BRP001 says

You don’t know someone or how much someone might hurt you until they’ve been presented with considerable temptation (the kind that’s worthy of betrayal). Trust only to the extent that you can survive betrayal’s cost.

That's tough... The problem with this is that someone's position on this can change at anytime. Year 5 of the marriage, they would never succumb to temptation of any kind, just no way right? But year 10, their resentment has grown, their unhappy with this or that, and now that same temptation might have a different outcome. It's F'd up. Don't neglect your spouse folks.

The sense of entitlement is a very strong thing. It's amazing how your mind can sway towards, "I deserve to get the house since he treated me poorly" or "I'm entitled to get 70% of the assets since I gave him 10 years of my life" or "I am entitled to walk away from my mortgage because the banks are responsible for the housing crisis" or "Ya, I murdered my ex wife but she was toying with my emotions, stealing my money, letting her new boy-toy drive my Ferrari around town for everyone to see and I should go free as a result." We are professionals at giving into feelings of entitlement, especially when the laws (such as marriage/divorce) support them.

Bap33 says

If only the dad's were able to make sure the funds went ONLY to child support.

Agreed. The current system just BEGS for abuse... If this could be done, guys wouldn't be as fearful to get married.

propitup1 says

I don't think I understand Americans anymore,

I think Americans have lost or forgotten the importance of loyalty. Loyalty to their wife , to their husband, and to the family unit. I would even venture to say that Americans don't even feel the need to be loyal to their own country or people anymore.

The problem is that the gov creates incentives to walk on that loyalty. F you government.

mell says

The hookup culture is not a new phenomenon, it is just a different manifestation of humans natural polyamory because it is now more accepted. This bullshit about how marriages were great and sanct in the (insert your favorite decade here) is just complete hogwash.

100% agree. The only difference between hook-up culture today and (insert your favorite decade here) is that it's more electronically documented than it's ever been.

And do women really file 70% of the divorces in the USA? REALLY? Even with them being the partner with the "clock?" If so, that's absolutely nuts and is as glaring a revelation regarding who the law favors as you can possibly have!

Buster says

Religion % have been divorced

Jews 30%

Born-again Christians 27%

Other Christians 24%

Atheists, Agnostics 21%

If you notice, the divorce rate is 50% and all the % above are below 50%. Does that mean that marriages having partners with differing religious beliefs represent a divorce rate that is significantly higher than 50%?

rufita11 says

zzyzzx says

BRP001 says

Unfortunately for her, all of my investments were locked up tight and untouchable. She got nada.

Exactly how does one do this?

I am a woman and I want to know how to do this. I get anxious thinking that one day, he could walk away and take half of everything I have worked so hard for.

This happened to a

female executive I know. Her deadbeat husband promised to get a job after the kids were out. He decided it would be best to take a very, very early retirement. She was having none of that, but it cost her dearly.

Depends on the state and depends on when you implement the asset protection. What I did won't work in all states. You have to talk to a good lawyer that specializes in estates and trusts to find out what protections you can use in your state. Any jointly owned assets are open to distribution in court. I'm unusual in that I had trusts setup for asset protection to avoid loss from law suits before marriage. There were no joint assets either. Also, I did not comingle accounts. There were no children either, which makes a big difference in some cases.

Kevin says

New Renter says

Kevin says

The men on here are seriously damaged, lonely people.

Aren't you yourself a man "on here"?

I'm the exception that proves the rule.

Me too! What a coincidence!