patrick.net

It's illegal in CA (all offers must be submitted to the seller).

Also, on almost every HGTV property show the buyers are typically in escrow on one of the properties already. Sometimes they end up touring one of their friend's homes if they can't find a suitable place on the market.

Not sure what a UK site would know about the U.S. market, but most of what they describe is unethical and/or illegal. The rest are just common sense tricks of the trade.

CMY says

It's illegal in CA (all offers must be submitted to the seller).

Wow, it's against the law? I guess those experts are wrong then. I could never see a real estate agent breaking the law to line thier own pocket.

It's against the law in Florida and every other state I know. It's a stupid mainstream press article for the consumption of idoits. "TV investigation exposes shocking tricks..." Give me a break! Talk about weasel words. Bait for the dim witted.

Sure it happens but very few Realtors will risk it as it's too easy to get caught. Every state has a website showing which charges are being brought against who. You can see for yourself rather than believing some loser from Property Virgins (LOL). The most common are not stating criminal history on the application and mishandling of escrow funds.

CMY says

It's illegal in CA (all offers must be submitted to the seller).

Murder, extortion and bribery is illegal too. Yet I don't see our government in jail. Washington DC makes realtors look like upstanding citizens.

CMY says

It's illegal in CA (all offers must be submitted to the seller).

It's completely unprovable, if they just ignore the offer. I had my realtor (my brother) attempt to put in the same offer 6 times. House ended up selling for the exact price I offered (technically only "attempted" to offer) and the seller's agent double dipped. Imagine that. Realtor's (as a whole) are pieces of shit.

Jeremy says

It's completely unprovable, if they just ignore the offer.

Exactly.

You have way way of knowing if the realtor just tears up your offer so as to get a bigger commission from someone else, or to be able to sell the house to a friend for a lower price.

The system just begs realtors to screw both buyers and sellers. The solution is to make every single offer for land public.

Jeremy says

CMY says

It's illegal in CA (all offers must be submitted to the seller).

It's completely unprovable, if they just ignore the offer. I had my realtor (my brother) attempt to put in the same offer 6 times. House ended up selling for the exact price I offered (technically only "attempted" to offer) and the seller's agent double dipped. Imagine that. Realtor's (as a whole) are pieces of shit.

Oh yeah... why 6 attempts at an offer? Because my family already lived in the house!!! I had been renting it through a management company for a year when it went on the market. So not only did I lose out, I had to move!!! Pieces of Shit!!

Sorry to hear that Jeremy, that truly sucks. And unfortunately stories like that are all too common these days. Where representative hides offers or manipulates them for own sake. I've heard from people who lost bids to lower bidders because of double commission too.

And until there is transparency in the process nothing will change, when unethical people think they can get away with something they will. Until than you just have to acknowledge it, and try to work with what you can.

In UK realtors get 1% ( vs 6% in USA ) commission and they have done fine !

EInvestor says

In UK realtors get 1% ( vs 6% in USA ) commission and they have done fine !

Each side gets .5%?! Then they share half of that with their broker? I don't think so. Something's wrong with that picture. That would just pay for your gas and insurance in the US, nevermind health insurance. Why bother? They're probably all on public assistance like the Walmart workers in this country.

In the US each Realtor gets 3% which they have to share with their broker. They have to pay all their expenses as well as health insurance and taxes.

Jeremy says

It's completely unprovable, if they just ignore the offer. I had my realtor (my brother) attempt to put in the same offer 6 times.

Yes it is provable. All the potential buyer has to do is confirm it with the seller then buyer and/or seller can report it to the Board and Department of Business and Professional Regulation and then the trouble starts. It's very easy to get caught if the potential buyer has a grain of intelligence and drive.

At the very least push for something in writing from the Realtor confirming your offer was submitted. Even if it's an email. If you can't get that then you contact the seller directly and tell the Realtor her lack of response is going to cause you to contact the seller directly and call for an investigation. Also contact the Realtor's broker. A Realtor is merely an employee of the broker. The broker is ultimately responsible. Most games Realtors play are being done without the knowledge of the broker.

Jeremy says

had my realtor (my brother) attempt to put in the same offer 6 times. House ended up selling for the exact price I offered (technically only "attempted" to offer) and the seller's agent double dipped.

How do you know the sellers agent double dipped?

You have way way of knowing if the realtor just tears up your offer so as to get a bigger commission from someone else,

In reality a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The Realtor is going to tell the seller to accept the offer that is most likely going to get financing and sell. They're looking not just for the highest offer. More importantly they're looking for the BEST offer. If your offer is being ignored you can bet it's not the best offer. With wider use of buyers using the Internet to contact Realtors same-agent sales account for a very small percentage of sales.

It's just that certain agents love the double-dip so they push for it and in the end lose sales because of their greed, but they're very few in numbers. Really all they have to do is ask and most sellers will give them a chance to sell it "in office" first. In fact it's often used in the sales pitch as a benefit of listing with a large office. "We might just have it sold before it even hits the MLS."

ELC says

EInvestor says

In UK realtors get 1% ( vs 6% in USA ) commission and they have done fine !

Each side gets .5%?! Then they share half of that with their broker? I don't think so. Something's wrong with that picture. That would just pay for your gas and insurance in the US, nevermind health insurance. Why bother? They're probably all on public assistance like the Walmart workers in this country.

In the US each Realtor gets 3% which they have to share with their broker. They have to pay all their expenses as well as health insurance and taxes.

In the UK, I am pretty sure there is no buyers agent and the agents don't necessarily even show a property, the homeowner does.

It sounds like they are much more rational in the UK then. Maybe everyone there can see the whopping conflict of interest that a "free" buyer's agent always has with the buyer.

The very idea that an agent paid by the seller will work in the buyer's interest is comical.

C Boy says

In the UK, I am pretty sure there is no buyers agent and the agents don't necessarily even show a property, the homeowner does.

Then you can't even compare their system to ours. They're only getting a fraction of the services. A buyer's agent who brings a buyer is more important than a listing agent. In the US you can list your property in the MLS for $200 and pretend you know how to negotiate a deal and think your saving 3%. But there's no getting rid of the buyer's agent if you have half a brain. If you think that's wise you might as well just use Craiglist or some virtually useless FSBO website like www.postlets.com. Then let your house rot for a year or two and finally sell it for 15% less than you could have if you got a full service listing. But look at the bright side. You saved 6%.

ELC says

C Boy says

In the UK, I am pretty sure there is no buyers agent and the agents don't necessarily even show a property, the homeowner does.

Then you can't even compare their system to ours. They're only getting a fraction of the services. A buyer's agent who brings a buyer is more important than a listing agent. In the US you can list your property in the MLS for $200 and pretend you know how to negotiate a deal and think your saving 3%. But there's no getting rid of the buyer's agent if you have half a brain. If you think that's wise you might as well just use Craiglist or some virtually useless FSBO website like www.postlets.com. Then let your house rot for a year or two and finally sell it for 15% less than you could have if you got a full service listing. But look at the bright side. You saved 6%.

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word "service".

UK

What is the percentage that buyer/seller lost on a transaction?

In Spain, for instance, you pay 10% tax for a new house and 7% for a used one.
No wonder most people pay part of it in cash.

zzyzzx says

Hey, give credit when you steal my material.

C Boy says

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word "service".

In my presentation book I would have a list of things that can go wrong in both sides of a transaction. I had about 20 things on the buyers side and about 25 on the sellers side and the list was growing. Sometimes a transaction goes smooth and the Realtor makes out like a bandit, but more often than not whatever can go wrong does go wrong. That's when the smugness gets wiped off the face of someone who buys without a buyer's agent, sells FSBO or hires a limited-service Realtor. If you think Realtors are dumb you have no idea how dumb a member of the public with little or no experience is. The ones that think they're bright enough to handle everything are in a class by themselves. Sometimes the wife has to just sit back and admit to herself, "I'm married to an idiot."

ELC says

If you think Realtors are dumb you have no idea how dumb a member of the public with little or no experience is. The ones that think they're bright enough to handle everything are in a class by themselves.

probably engineers and accountants

ELC says

C Boy says

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word "service".

In my presentation book I would have a list of things that can go wrong in both sides of a transaction. I had about 20 things on the buyers side and about 25 on the sellers side and the list was growing. Sometimes a transaction goes smooth and the Realtor makes out like a bandit, but more often than not whatever can go wrong does go wrong. That's when the smugness gets wiped off the face of someone who buys without a buyer's agent, sells FSBO or hires a limited-service Realtor. If you think Realtors are dumb you have no idea how dumb a member of the public with little or no experience is. The ones that think they're bright enough to handle everything are in a class by themselves. Sometimes the wife has to just sit back and admit to herself, "I'm married to an idiot."

Wow! I had no idea you learned so much in the required 4 weeks of classroom education.

ja says

UK

What is the percentage that buyer/seller lost on a transaction?

In Spain, for instance, you pay 10% tax for a new house and 7% for a used one.

No wonder most people pay part of it in cash.

Much like the US, only the little people pay taxes.

C Boy says

Wow! I had no idea you learned so much in the required 4 weeks of classroom education.

4 weeks and over 1000 listings.

Oxygen says

If you think Realtors are dumb you have no idea how dumb a member of the public with little or no experience is. The ones that think they're bright enough to handle everything are in a class by themselves.

probably engineers and accountants

In my experience the ones that wanted to do it FSBO were under or unemployed. There's always the reason that sounds the best. Then there's the real reason. In reality most were going broke, were nearly underwater and desperately needed to put that 6% in their pocket. The idea that they could do it themself was the reason that sounded better. Employed engineers and accountants don't have the time to play that game. They're usually selling for other reasons.

"In other words, an agent would conceal a higher offer on a house from the seller to keep the entire commission to herself."

Yep. Offer the listing agent whatever it is you want to pay.

ELC says

In my experience the ones that wanted to do it FSBO were under or unemployed

I wouldn't doubt this, but given the monumental inventory shortage right now, an FSBO could probably be sold in about 10 days just by posting on Redfin and running a couple open houses on the weekend. That means right now a busy professional could easily sell their own home if they were smart enough to know the current market and hire a RE lawyer for the transaction.

Philistine says

I wouldn't doubt this, but given the monumental inventory shortage right now, an FSBO could probably be sold in about 10 days just by posting on Redfin and running a couple open houses on the weekend. That means right now a busy professional could easily sell their own home if they were smart enough to know the current market and hire a RE lawyer for the transaction.

It's not working for me like that in South Florida. The only response we've been getting is from the MLS. An occational inquiry for a rental might come through another source.

Mick Russom says

"In other words, an agent would conceal a higher offer on a house from the seller to keep the entire commission to herself."

Yep. Offer the listing agent whatever it is you want to pay.

In the real world an agent won't put it in the MLS until they contact their own potential buyers. Concealing offers happens in the paranoid mind of a poorly qualified buyer much more often than it happens in reality.

As I said in a previous post, an agent who has a potential buyer will tell the seller they may have it sold before it hits the MLS. Sellers always liked to hear that even though most I felt didn't believe it because it sounded too good to be true.

Mick Russom says

"In other words, an agent would conceal a higher offer on a house from the seller to keep the entire commission to herself."

Yep. Offer the listing agent whatever it is you want to pay.

And mail a summary of your offer on a postcard to the SELLER himself and not to the seller's agent, as insurance. It's cheap and effective, and you've got the address if the seller lives in the house.

ELC says

It's not working for me like that in South Florida

Yikes, South Florida . . . forget it. RE there is a lost cause.