patrick.net

socal2 says

McVeigh got the death penalty, Nichols got life in prison, and Weather Underground radicals got teaching gigs in Chicago (Doyrn, Ayers) and Robert Redford movies white-washing their murderous past.

So, what you are suggesting is that the Weather Underground members -- who you feel committed crimes equivalent to McVeigh and Nichols -- got preferential treatment from our criminal justice system?

leo707 says

So, what you are suggesting is that the Weather Underground members -- who
committed crimes equivalent to McVeigh and Nichols -- got preferential treatment
from our criminal justice system?

They certainly got preferential treatment from our high end universities.

Can you imagine Columbia hiring an abortion clinic bomber who wasn't repentent but served his/her time in jail to teach kids about organizing protests?

Just wouldn't happen in this universe. Hell - you can hardly be a registered Republican and be hired by our large universities.

None of these Weather Underground types are repentent. FFS - Ayers had an Op-ed on 9/11/01 in the NYTimes saying he "didn't do enough" back during his radical days bombing buildings. Dohrn certainly isn't repentent and even had nice things to say about Charles Manson murdering Sharon Tate!
"First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they even shoved a fork into the pig Tate's stomach! Wild!"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardine_Dohrn

Yet this monster was hired as an adjunct professor for Northwestern University School of Law!

The Left is A-OK with political violence as long is it is their people doing it for "good causes". Look at all the OWS morons last year breaking windows and even attempting to bomb bridges in Ohio.
http://news.yahoo.com/ows-tactics-turn-violent-attempted-cleveland-bridge-bombing-210700652.html

socal2 says

Can you imagine Columbia hiring an abortion clinic bomber who wasn't repentent but served his/her time in jail to teach kids about organizing protests?

Just wouldn't happen in this universe. Hell - you can hardly be a registered Republican and be hired by our large universities.

None of these Weather Underground types are repentent. FFS - Ayers had an Op-ed on 9/11/01 in the NYTimes saying he "didn't do enough" back during his radical days bombing buildings. Dohrn certainly isn't repentent and even had nice things to say about Charles Manson murdering Sharon Tate!

"First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they even shoved a fork into the pig Tate's stomach! Wild!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardine_Dohrn

Yet this monster was hired as an adjunct professor for Northwestern University School of Law!

very very good point...

socal2 says

leo707 says

So, what you are suggesting is that the Weather Underground members -- who

committed crimes equivalent to McVeigh and Nichols -- got preferential treatment

from our criminal justice system?

They certainly got preferential treatment from our high end universities.

That was not the question. Did Weather Underground members get preferential treatment from our criminal justice system?

socal2 says

Again, come back when you have ONE EXAMPLE of mainstream Republicans giving convicted murderers or bombers teaching spots at our colleges.

The Republican equivalent that is evolved with illegal bombs and killings is given immunity for testifying for congress, and then rather than take a teaching gig they get a much more lucrative position hosting a show on FOX "news."

leo707 says

That was not the question. Did Weather Underground members get preferential
treatment from our criminal justice system?

Don't believe that either Ayers or Dohrn saw any jail time for bombing government buildings and having their group members murder people.

So you tell me.

leo707 says

That was not the question. Did Weather Underground members get preferential treatment from our criminal justice system?

you think anyone else who committed equal similar crimes would get a teaching position
in a top 10 university ? that is what i call preferential treatment by the left...

socal2 says

leo707 says

That was not the question. Did Weather Underground members get preferential

treatment from our criminal justice system?

Don't believe that either Ayers or Dohrn saw any jail time for bombing government buildings and having their group members murder people.

So you tell me.

Hmmmm...so what you are telling me is that our criminal justice system did not see McVeigh and Ayers as equivalent?

Why would that be???? Remind me again who Ayers murdered?

leo707 says

The Republican equivalent that is evolved with illegal bombs and killings is
given immunity for testifying for congress, and then rather than take a teaching
gig they get a much more lucrative position hosting a show on FOX "news."

Oliver North? For real?

You really think trying to sell arms to Iran to free American hostages held in Lebanon is the equivalent of blowing up government buildings, targeting judges and murdering American citizens?

Do you even know anything about the Weather Undergound and all of the violence they perpetrated? Both Ayers and Dohrn signed a "declaration of war" against the US!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

socal2 says

leo707 says

The Republican equivalent that is evolved with illegal bombs and killings is

given immunity for testifying for congress, and then rather than take a teaching

gig they get a much more lucrative position hosting a show on FOX "news."

Oliver North? For real?

You really think trying to sell arms to Iran to free American hostages held in Lebanon is the equivalent of blowing up government buildings, targeting judges and murdering American citizens?

Do you even know anything about the Weather Undergound and all of the violence they perpetrated? Both Ayers and Dohrn signed a "declaration of war" against the US!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

For real?

You don't know anything about the Contra part of that whole deal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_%28guerrillas%29#Human_rights_violations

Then again North must be in your "hero" category, not "terrorist."

leo707 says

Why would that be???? Remind me again who Ayers murdered?

The leaders of an organized crime family or terrorist cells are equally guilty of murders.
Bill Ayers was a co-founder and leader of WU ... therefore he is guilty of crimes of the organization he lead.

and no Bin Laden didnt kill anyone directly either, but was a co founder of al-Qaeda terrorist organization that killed tens of thousands and therefore Bin Laden is guilty of terrorism and murder.

leo707 says

For real?

You don't know anything about the Contra part of that whole deal?

There's also that whole Constitution thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boland_Amendment

socal2 says

murdering American citizens?

You keep saying that, even though others keep reminding you that the Weather Underground didn't murder anyone. Maybe you should write in some random made-up murders and add them to your only source, Wikipedia. Maybe someone else will add accusations of conspiring with a giant spectral entity that may or may not have been Satan. You could get a real rally going, if you accept Wikipedia as a source.

This is what I don't understand about Faux News "conservatives." Why must you insist on ignorance? Why, even when you are invited to comment on the ugliness of the left, do you fail to find actual examples? You could have done better with Waco, where the Clinton administration incinerated a bunch of people (including children) in their own home. What is it about Faux News that makes you focus on false examples, things that can only be taken on faith because they aren't actually true? Is it some kind of loyalty test? Do you agree to make false allegations as part of your cable subscription? Is there a contest to dream up the most outlandish accusations, and you're hoping for a prize? I really don't understand, what drives you to insist on falsehoods when you could easily find valid criticisms if you merely looked beyond Wikipedia and Faux News?

CL says

There's also that whole Constitution thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boland_Amendment

no.. not constitutional.. it was part of the Defense Appropriations Act of 1982 and 1983 and ran out end of 1985. Funding the contras afterwards would have been legal.

curious2 says

You keep saying that, even though others keep reminding you that the Weather Underground didn't murder anyone.

since when was it not criminal by a outlawed communist terror group to set bombs to explode at government offices ?

example...

On May 19, 1972, Ho Chi Minh’s birthday, the Weather Underground placed a bomb in the women’s bathroom in the Air Force wing of the Pentagon. The damage caused flooding that destroyed computer tapes holding classified information. Other radical groups worldwide applauded the bombing, illustrated by German youths protesting against American military systems in Frankfurt. This was "in retaliation for the U.S. bombing raid in Hanoi."

curious2 says

What is it about Faux News that makes you focus on false examples, things that can only be taken on faith because they aren't actually true? Is it some kind of loyalty test? Do you agree to make false allegations as part of your cable subscription? Is there a contest to dream up the most outlandish accusations, and you're hoping for a prize? I really don't understand, what drives you to insist on falsehoods when you could easily find valid criticisms if you merely looked beyond Wikipedia and Faux News?

Yeah, I see this happen often. Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth about absurd bullshit when there are actual real documented good examples to complain about.

curious2 says

You keep saying that, even though others keep reminding you that the Weather Underground didn't murder anyone. Maybe you should write in some random made-up murders and add them to your only source,

had their been one death or injury then you would never heard of the WU, very much like
that of Symbionese Liberation Army which did bank robberies and killed 2 people.

only after the killings, execution style, and repeated rapes of Patricia Hearst, which was
brought out to the public trials did SLA and WU lose their shine.

guess they were more thugs and criminals than some revolutionaries people wanted to believe in.

both grew from the same poisonous weed.

thomaswong.1986 says

since when was it not criminal by a outlawed communist terror group to set bombs to explode at government offices ?

Dan can identify the fake argument you used there, I think he'd call it substitution. SoCal accused them of murder, which I reminded him was false, so you feign indignation and ask since when were their actions not criminal. Schoolchildren have been putting pipe bombs in school bathrooms, or at least talking about doing that, probably for as long as there have been pipe bombs and school bathrooms. If they don't kill anyone, it isn't murder. That doesn't mean it isn't criminal, it just means it isn't murder.

curious2 says

Schoolchildren have been putting pipe bombs in school bathrooms, or at least talking about doing that, probably for as long as there have been pipe bombs and school bathrooms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions

you can read the who list.. of bombings and killings...

yes, you hate wiki, but anything that disputes your claims gets equal contempt.

February 16: A bomb is detonated at the Golden Gate Park branch of the San Francisco Police Department, killing one officer and injuring a number of other policemen (one seriously). No organization claims credit for either bombing. (See San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Police_Department_Park_Station_bombing

March 6 – WUO members Theodore Gold, Diana Oughton, and Terry Robbins are killed in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion,[2][8] when a nailbomb they were constructing detonates. The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey

March 30 – Chicago police discover a WUO "bomb factory" on Chicago’s north side

April 1 - Based on a tip Chicago Police find 59 sticks of dynamite, ammunition, and nitro glyerine in an apartment traced to WUO members.[12] The discover of the WUO weapons cache ends WUO activity in this city.

June 6 – In a letter, the WUO claims credit for bombing of the San Francisco Hall of Justice, although no explosion has occurred. Months later, workmen locate an unexploded bomb

June 9 - The New York City Police headquarters is bombed by Jane Alpert and accomplices. Weathermen state this is in response to "police repression."[13][14] The bomb made with ten sticks of dynamite exploded in the NYC Police Headquarters. The explosion was preceded by a warning about six minutes prior to the detonation and subsequently by a WUO claim of responsibility

thomaswong.1986 says

you can read the who list.. of bombings and killings...

yes, you hate wiki, but anything that disputes your claims gets equal contempt.

I don't hate Wikipedia, it has the candor to acknowledge it isn't a source. Only you and SoCal seem to claim it as one, a claim that it denies.

Update - since you edited your post to add a quote about a San Francisco incident - as your own "source" acknowledges, nobody was ever even charged, let alone indicted or convicted, because there was no reliable evidence. If you have any evidence related to the incident, please report it to the SFPD or the FBI. If you don't, then don't accuse people of murder without evidence.

Second update, since you're spamming your own post with quotes from Wikipedia. In addition to quoting Wikipedia, you're trying to use substitution again. None of those incidents even allegedly involved murder.

curious2 says

I don't hate Wikipedia, it has the candor to acknowledge it isn't a source.

choke on it!

curious2 says

Update - since you edited your post to add a quote about a San Francisco incident - as your own "source" acknowledges, nobody was ever even charged, let alone indicted or convicted, because there was no reliable evidence.

According to the San Francisco Chronicle, "Investigators in the early '70s said the bombing likely was the work of the Weather Underground,

were you expecting a school girl with pipe bombs being responsibe for all this ?

thomaswong.1986 says

choke on it!

Choke on what, your ignorance? The air is clean here, no matter how you try to pollute it.

thomaswong.1986 says

likely

So they investigated and did they find sufficient evidence to support the charge? No. Eventually the absence of evidence becomes evidence of absence. They kept investigating "the usual suspects," while the real perpetrators got away. Maybe it was the guy who went after Texas prosecutors recently.

April 1 - Based on a tip Chicago Police find 59 sticks of dynamite, ammunition, and nitro glyerine in an apartment traced to WUO members.[12] The discover of the WUO weapons cache ends WUO activity in this city.

curious2 says

Maybe it was the guy who went after Texas prosecutors recently.

maybe it was the CIA and FBI...

July 25 - The United States Army base at The Presidio in San Francisco is bombed on the 11th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution.[13] [NYT, 7/27/70] On the same day, a branch of the Bank of America is bombed in New York.[14]

July 28 - Bank of America HQ in NYC is bombed around 3:50 AM. WUO claims responsibility.

thomaswong.1986 says

maybe it was the CIA and FBI...

Well, since you mentioned them, at least those organizations were actually involved in killing people.

October 8 - Bombing of Marin County courthouse. WUO states this is in retaliation for the killings of Jonathan Jackson,

October 10 - A Queens traffic-court building is bombed. WUO claims this is to express support for the New York prison riots.

October 11 - A Courthouse in Long Island City, NY is bombed. An estimated 8 to 10 sticks of dynamite are used. A warning was given around 10 min. prior to the 1:23 AM blast by the WUO

October 14 - The Harvard Center for International Affairs is bombed by The Proud Eagle Tribe of Weather (later renamed the Women's Brigade of the Weather Underground).[18] WUO claims this is to protest the war in Vietnam. [NYT, 10/14/70, p. 30] The bombing was in reaction to Angela Davis' arrest and was the first action undertaken by an all-women's unit of WUO

December 5th - Five Weatherman are captured for trying to bomb First National City Bank of NY and other buildings on the anniversary of the death of Fred Hampton. These individuals subsequently plead guilty.

March 1 - The United States Capitol is bombed. WUO states this is to protest the invasion of Laos. President Richard M. Nixon denounces the bombing as a "shocking act of violence that will outrage all Americans." [NYT, 3/2/71]

October 15 - The bombing of William Bundy's office in the MIT research center. [NYT, 10/16/71]

May 18 - The bombing of the 103rd Police Precinct in New York. WUO states this is in response to the killing of 10-year-old black youth Clifford Glover by police.

September 28 - ITT headquarters buildings in New York and Rome, Italy are bombed. WUO states this is in response to ITT's alleged role in the Chilean coup earlier that month

May 31 - The Office of the California Attorney General is bombed. WUO states this is in response to the killing of six members of the Symbionese Liberation Army.

curious2 says

thomaswong.1986 says

maybe it was the CIA and FBI...

Well, since you mentioned them, at least those organizations were actually involved in killing people.

what you really mean is WU, was responsible but never admitted to it.

and who else was running around the nation bombing state and federal buildings..

week after week after week for several years... who were the members found and pled guilty to having dynamite and nitro.

thomaswong.1986 says

what you really mean is

That is definitely not what I meant, as you should know since it's the opposite of what I wrote.

But you are illustrating something about how Democrats have held power lately. Although as Dan said neither side has a monopoly on ugliness, the critics of the left are disproportionately likely to be nuts. For example, spamming a thread with quotes from Wikipedia, or FortHood's fear of black people taking over his TV, and his insistence that gasoline prices are higher now than during the Bush/Cheney administration. You guys make the left look reasonable by comparison.

curious2 says

That makes the left look reasonable by comparison

with bombings across several years, month after month, week after week.
average citizen unwilling to travel to govt facilities for services for fear of a WU bomb.

yea.. fear and terror is about the only look you get ! But WU certainly came in 2nd
when you look at what Bin Laden did to NYC. Be proud of your side !

Here is a timely Daily Beast piece on the subject.

"How 60's Radicals Ended Up Teaching our Kids"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/10/how-1960s-radicals-ended-up-teaching-your-kids.html

There is just no chance that any "ugly person" on the poltical Right with these kind of criminal records would be allowed within mile of teaching our kids at our major universities.

socal2 says

Here is a timely Daily Beast piece on the subject.

"How 60's Radicals Ended Up Teaching our Kids"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/10/how-1960s-radicals-ended-up-teaching-your-kids.html

There is just no chance that any "ugly person" on the poltical Right with these kind of criminal records would be allowed within mile of teaching our kids at our major universities.

It seems that the Daily Beast has the same moral lacking as you in being able to see the difference between what the Weather Underground did (which I don't condone), and someone who -- in violation of the Constitution of the United States of America -- funnels untold piles of cash and support a group known to be one of the worst human rights violators in the world.

I am sorry, but I don't see the equivalence between 70s radicals who actually did the time that the American justice system demanded of them and someone who took part in some of the most horrible war crimes imaginable. If your panties are in such a bunch over Weather Underground I don't see how you can justify that it is OK for Oliver North to have such a prestigious (and lucrative position) over at Faux News.

Why would someone from the political Right who has wiped the Constitution with his/her ass, and financed acts that make the Weather Underground seem like girl scouts, take a crappy teaching gig? There are much more lucrative and prestigious jobs available to them.

socal2 says

You really think trying to sell arms to Iran to free American hostages held
in Lebanon is the equivalent of blowing up government buildings, targeting
judges and murdering American citizens?

Not just wrong, but totally f'n wrong. The arms dealing was done before, during, and after the hostage scenario, and was also done while Iran was labeled a terrorist supporting government.
You should learn what really freed those hostages, because it wasn't what you think.

Ollie was trying to free American Hostages.

Weather Underground was killing Americans citizens.

One Cable news stations does not = Ivy League Schools.

If you are incapable of appreciating the difference, I can't help you.

socal2 says

Ollie was trying to free American Hostages.

Wrong. He was trying to fund the Contras because congress shut off the money supply for it.
And, ironically those hostages sued Iran and won because of legislation that was passed for that, and the forfeiture of assets was done by Bush 2, who said that terrorists shouldn't be prosecuted but tortured and run through his beloved kangeroo court.
I'll ask my friend who was one of the (severely tortured) hostages if you prefer. Or you can choose to become smarter and research the topic yourself.

upisdown says

Not just wrong, but totally f'n wrong. The arms dealing was done before,
during, and after the hostage scenario, and was also done while Iran was labeled
a terrorist supporting government.
You should learn what really freed those
hostages, because it wasn't what you think.

I also don't mind arming people to fight Marxists in South America.

The Weather Underground were Marxist trying to kill Capitalists in America.

socal2 says

I also don't mind arming people to fight Marxists in South America.

Oh, so butchering, raping, terrorizing, and torturing civilians is A-OK in your book, just as long as the perpetrators share your political views?

Interesting...at least it is nice to know what moral ground you are working from.

socal2 says

The Weather Underground were Marxist trying to kill Capitalists in America.

As, discussed earlier in this thread this is not a proven point, and in-fact -- at least some of the people you are complaining about -- went out of their way to avoid killing anyone capitalist or not.

socal2 says

One Cable news stations does not = Ivy League Schools.

If you are incapable of appreciating the difference, I can't help you.

You must be joking if you think that any one of the Weather Underground members would not immediately quit their ivy league teaching job if they were offered a television show with the pay, exposure and prestige as offered to Oliver North. Yes, you are correct in that they are not at all equivalent.

socal2 says

I also don't mind arming people to fight Marxists in South America.

The Weather Underground were Marxist trying to kill Capitalists in
America.

Yea, another fucked up and beyond insane theory of a right winger. Breaking numerous laws, which could have AND SHOULD HAVE led to the impeachment of both the president and vice president, trials and convictions, just to carry out their assinine ideological based agenda, against their ideological enemy, that in reality wasn't.
You McCarthy types wouldn't know a commie or marxist if you ever saw or met one, because anybody not like you is supposedly one of those.