patrick.net

marcus says

I don't have much else to say on this. I still haven't figured out the answer to what interests me at this point about this behavior of the atheist who is religious about their non religiousness.

As for definitions of God, or ontological arguments which I don't think I ever even tried to make, but the history of famous philosophers and Mathematicians who enjoyed these is impressive. Who knows, maybe a few of these could hold a candle to your awesome intellect.

(I shouldn't have brought this up, because here comes another 20,000 words.)

He's already very effectively addressed those points and yet you trot them out again. Why?

Bigsby says

Do you think that means that person is then not allowed to express their views?

Of course not.

Bigsby says

Why exactly is an atheist supposed to tow a particular line that you prescribe for them?

They aren't. I wouldn't say a religious christian is supposed to not prosthelytize either. But that won't prevent me from expressing preference and greater respect for those who keep their beliefs somewhat to themself. This is my view, that I'm free to express.

And I guess I would add, that I think it's very possible to be an atheist, without it becoming your religion. This is just another way of my saying what this thread says, and what this thread says.

I think the fact that you are still trotting out the extraordinarily tired 'atheism is a religion' line after all that has been said speaks volumes.

I get that you have nothing to say here. I never said and do not believe that atheism is a religion. Quite the contrary.

marcus says

I get that you have nothing to say here. I never said and do not believe that atheism is a religion. Quite the contrary.

I rather think you have nothing to say outside of repeating the same tired lines. And good grief, if you don't believe atheism can be a religion, then why are you saying (repeatedly) such things as:

marcus says

it's very possible to be an atheist, without it becoming your religion.

I hope English isn't your first language.

marcus says

I hope English isn't your first language.

Perhaps you'd like to point out what was so wrong with what I said seeing as you are such a grammarian.

marcus says

How I see athiests who wish to prosthelytize

And how they see Marcus:

Based on Marcus' comments, I can easily picture him saying an elephant must be bigger than the moon, because the elephant feels bigger, even looks bigger. On the other hand, Marcus' use of a different browser to stalk people he pretends to Ignore, and his endless attempts to debate Dan, and his profanity-laden tantrums based on false accusations, make it simply impossible for me to picture him teaching math.

Bigsby says

Perhaps you'd like to point out what was so wrong with what I said seeing as you are such a grammarian.

I'd call it semantics rather than grammar.

1)
marcus says

I think it's very possible to be an atheist, without it becoming your religion.

2)
Bigsby says

I think the fact that you are still trotting out the extraordinarily tired 'atheism is a religion'

3)
marcus says

I never said and do not believe that atheism is a religion.

4)
Bigsby says

good grief, if you don't believe atheism can be a religion, then why are you saying (repeatedly) such things as:

marcus says

it's very possible to be an atheist, without it becoming your religion.

If you don't see it, don't worry about it. Too much detail perhaps. I've been working 12 hour days recently, so if it's tiredness, or the effect of a cocktail, I can relate.

marcus says

I'd call it semantics rather than grammar.

Except it's not an issue of semantics. It's an issue of you clearly contradicting yourself but pretending that you aren't. If you state that atheism isn't a religion, then you can't come out with the argument that certain atheists are making it their religion. If it's not a religion, then how can they be? The simple answer is they aren't.

marcus says

If you don't see it, don't worry about it. Too much detail perhaps. I've been working 12 hour days recently, so if it's tiredness, or the effect of a cocktail, I can relate.

I rather think it's you who can't see what a convoluted nonsense of an argument it is that you are making. Maybe it's your 12 hour days that explain the lack of logic shown in what you are saying.

robertoaribas says

If atheists don't proselytize, how can they be sure they'll get into a heaven they don't believe in?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/v-bWz74h518

Dan8267 says

If Marcus wants to have an honest, adult debate with me on this topic, let's do it.

Well, I guess this isn't going to happen based on Marcus's childish remarks.

I take the time to explain, sincerely and honestly, every fine point related to Marcus's questions and the subject matter of religion. Instead of rising to an adult level and accepting, questioning, or challenging the actual arguments I made, Marcus once again resorts to baseless personal attacks.

Well, Marcus, you are entitled to your opinions about me, but as such opinions have no basis in reality, the rest of us are entitled to thinking your opinions really reflect your pathetically small mind rather than the persons you bitch about.

Bigsby says

He's already very effectively addressed those points and yet you trot them out again. Why?

It's like Fox News. If you cannot make a good argument, you simply repeat lies and hope the audience is dumb enough to accept the lies if they are repeated enough times. Unfortunately, some people are dumb enough to believe ridiculous lies if they are repeated enough times. How else do you explain Republicans carrying almost half the popular vote?

curious2 says

... make it simply impossible for me to picture him teaching math.

I often, too, questioned Marcus's claim that he is a math teacher. He makes every logical fallacy known to man, avoids reasoning, thinking, and objectivity wherever he sees it, contradicts himself continuously, and avoids even indirectly addressing the subject at hand. He obviously discourages questioning beliefs. He's the antithesis of everything a teacher, particularly a mathematics teacher, should be.

Any good teacher encourages students to question everything.

marcus says

I get that you have nothing to say here. I never said and do not believe that atheism is a religion. Quite the contrary.

This is a perfect example of Marcus contradicting himself. This very thread accuses atheists of "proselytizing". And just a few moments ago Marcus says

I still haven't figured out the answer to what interests me at this point about this behavior of the atheist who is religious about their non religiousness.

And then he claims that he never said atheism is a religion. Oh, I'm sure he'll make up some semantic bullshit about how there is a difference between "atheists being religious about atheism" and "atheism being a religion", but it's all still bullshit and contradiction.

Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position.

marcus says

I've been working 12 hour days recently, so if it's tiredness, or the effect of a cocktail, I can relate.

I just got done with literally a 12-hour work day, one of several in a row. Yet, I still can discuss a matter coherently. Don't blame tiredness for your lack of articulation. Have you've been tired every time you posted in the past year?

Dan, you really oughta sit yourself down with The Good Book.

I can see a lot of Atheists griping about religions being evil but I bet not a single one has researched with curiosity, any religion from the religion's point of view (the scriptures and religious books). All their info about various religions is from either TV or the internet. My suggestion would be to first spend some time and research, study, and understand the various religions, compare them, and when you're actually qualified to comment,..comment!

marcus says

(I shouldn't have brought this up (ontological arguments), because here comes another 20,000 words.)

Have you ever heard a teacher complain that a paper, report, or argument was "too long", especially if it was only 15,000 characters (about two pages of text)? There's no way Marcus is a real teacher. Maybe the kind of teacher that sits in "teacher jail" because it's impossible to fire him, but no one wants him near kids.

JodyChunder says

Dan, you really oughta sit yourself down with The Good Book.

I have.

Dan8267 says

Any good teacher encourages students to question everything.

Oh, questioning. Is that what you're doing ? Sounds more like you have all the answers.

Waitup says

I can see a lot of Atheists griping about religions being evil but I bet not a single one has researched with curiosity, any religion from the religion's point of view (the scriptures and religious books). All their info about various religions is from either TV or the internet. My suggestion would be to first spend some time and research, study, and understand the various religions, compare them, and when you're actually qualified to comment,..comment!

You do realize that most atheists grew up in religious communities, including myself, right?

I have first hand experience with religion having attended parochial schools. Hell, I had to take a Church History class in high school. I am fully aware of the mythology, doctrines, customs, rituals, history, theology, and practice of Christianity. Perhaps far more so than most Christians, which is exactly why I'm an atheist.

I have also studied history, and yes, that matters. For over two thousand years, the "great" religion of Christianity has promoted slavery, torture, rape, murder, and the oppression or destruction of all opposition. In big and in small ways, it still does. From reproductive rights to preventing the spread of AIDS in Africa, the Catholic Church, Christianity at large, and religion in general, continues to harm the world.

My opinion is not based on "pre-judging" religion, but rather "judging" it based on its history. And there is nothing wrong with doing that. At least I'm not burning people to death or drowning them like the religious did to atheists, gays, and pagans until recent history when modern men stopped them from doing just that.

You know what.. Fuck all of you for not calling Dan out on being the arrogant prick he is.

marcus says

Dan8267 says

Any good teacher encourages students to question everything.

Oh, questioning. Is that what you're doing ? Sounds more like you have all the answers.

Bitch and moan all you want, you have yet to actually attack any argument I've made.

Hell, Marcus, if you can provide a valid, mathematical proof that the square root of two can be expressed as the ratio of two integers, I'll admit I'm wrong about everything and that my world view makes no sense. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for you, or anyone else, to do that.

marcus says

You know what.. Fuck all of you for not calling Dan out on being the arrogant prick he is.

Even if I am an arrogant prick, I'm still right and you're still wrong.

marcus says

By the way, just a small comment/observation. I hope your code is a little more concise and a little more elegant than your comments above.

Waitup says

I can see a lot of Atheists griping about religions being evil but I bet not a single one has researched with curiosity, any religion from the religion's point of view (the scriptures and religious books). All their info about various religions is from either TV or the internet. My suggestion would be to first spend some time and research, study, and understand the various religions, compare them, and when you're actually qualified to comment,..comment!

Don't be absurd. I know much more about Judaism and Christianity that the vast majority of not only the lay members, but many of the ministers know. I've read the bible several times, went to religious sunday school as a kid, even learned a little Hebrew, and have read plenty of books on the Bible, from everybody from Bart Ehrman to John Crossan to Issac Asimov and Richard Price.

Did you know there is no evidence, none, that the Hebrews were ever enslaved in Egypt in vast numbers, and that the Hebrew occupation of Israel was continuous? Or that the Pyramids were built by corvee labor of Egyptians, and not slaves? Not my opinion, a fact. We know that Egyptian Peasants even competed with each other in teams about who could move the most stone the fastest because we have records. Not Ancient Astronauts, Not Psychic Powers, and Not Moses and his People.

The majority of Americans get their information about both Religion and History about the Ancient Hebrews, the Early and Late Roman Empire, from movies like Ben Hur, The Ten Commandments, and the Greatest Story Ever Told, as well as shitty tabloid "History" Channel shows about Noah's Ark and Empty Tombs.

Here's a better idea: The series "The Bible Unearthed", produced by an Israeli-French team and featuring two of the world's leading archeologists working on Ancient Israel, actual PhDs, not Matchbook University Ministers and Relic Hucksters featured on Discovery Channel shows. What we know about Ancient Israel from archeology is a very, very different story than is hawked by the Priests of Judah in the OT. I've never seen it on US Television, and never will, because Christians would demand the advertisers stop the program.

But nothing in it is controversial, it represents mainstream Archeology.