patrick.net

robertoaribas says

I guess we have different views of success.

My view: investments that pay me money, and go up in value.

your view:

1. not paying your debts, and blaming it on the banks.

2. getting IRS tax liens filed against yourself

3. suing and getting sued by people, per your own quote.

4. cleaning homes for $30 an hour.

As a final note, I occasionally hire companies to clean my rentals. So someone like you, works for someone like me. I know which side of htat transaction I prefer to be on.

Don't you think this pissing match has run its course?

Bigsby says

Don't you think this pissing match has run its course?

Guess not.

Prices continue to go up and the jealous haters continue to hate. I bet some hater punched his screen when he saw the title of this post, "case shiller up 8.1%". The appraisal estimate on my place increased another 5k in just one week. High end is 115k. Not bad for a 43.5k investment that was made less than 14 months ago. Who wants to kiss the ring? :D

robertoaribas says

2. getting IRS tax liens filed against yourself

OK professor, just to make you happy, I'll go in and make a deal to have the tax lein removed.

The banksters I'm still thinking about, but every one of them has an offer from me on the table. The ones who go to court get less, but I will think about the poor banksters you are so concerned about.

and your last point, hmmmm, let's see, would I be the guy getting paid, or paying?

postbubblesucess says

Prices continue to go up and the jealous haters continue to hate.

We are two weeks away from getting a house on the market, It's a good time to sell before everyone catches on.

Bigsby says

If you take the card and are late on your payments, then how about you take responsibility for it? If the rates are too much for you, then don't get a credit card in the first place.

It's not exactly what I'd call a stretch to suggest that economic volatility and consumer credit are two sides of the same coin, minted by the same tin gods who helped pull the chain on the American economy four years ago. I know if I was in the business of issuing consumer credit at usurious rates, it would sure help a lot if I had some venal lapdogs in the legislative branch that could help me engineer a playing field where such credit would be all but impossible for the middle class to live without.

JodyChunder says

I know if I was in the business of issuing consumer credit at usurious rates, it would sure help a lot if I had some venal lapdogs in the legislative branch that could help me engineer a playing field where such credit would be all but impossible for the middle class to live without.

It's a business model. You know what you are getting into when you sign up. That isn't deception.

Bigsby says

You know what you are getting into when you sign up. That isn't deception.

I know what most people are trying to get OUT of when they sign up: financial hardship. And I don't think it's a happy accident that the same fuckheads who are issuing this usurious credit to the working poor in America are the same financial institutions that helped gut the economy. You call that a business model; I call it engineering desperation.

JodyChunder says

I know you what most people are trying to get OUT of when they sign up: financial hardship. And I don't think it's a happy accident that the same fuckheads who are issuing this usurious credit to the working poor in America are the same financial institutions that helped gut the economy. You call that a business model; I call it engineering desperation.

Pretty much every adult has a credit card. I'd say the majority of them got one because it's convenient. If you spend more than you earn, then somewhere along the line you have to face the consequences of it. Banks do charge too much for credit cards, but they are always going to charge more than normal rates because of the costs involved and the fact a lot of the loaned money is interest free. And again, my point was that it isn't deception when the terms are clearly laid out for you. You might be deceiving yourself, but the bank isn't deceiving you.

Bigsby says

Pretty much every adult has a credit card. I'd say the majority of them got one because it's convenient.

Maybe the kids play differently on your side of the street there where you live, but I'd say the majority of credit card holders I know have them because it is either next-to-impossible to transact these days without one, or because they needed a little help from a fiend.

Bigsby says

And again, my point was that it isn't deception when the terms are clearly laid out for you.

I rate usury and predatory lending far higher on the scrotum pole of evil than deception; but while we're on the subject, there was a documentary a few years back entitled Maxed Out that included some illuminating if decidedly reticent testimony by one of the masterminds who made his living drafting some of the more impenetrable small print for credit card companies like Chase. If it wasn't the text book definition of deception, then it was close enough for jazz.

JodyChunder says

Maybe the kids play differently on your side of the street there where you live, but I'd say the majority of credit card holders I know have them because it is either next-to-impossible to transact these days without one, or because they needed a little help from a fiend.

And hence it is convenient and so people have them.

JodyChunder says

I rate usury and predatory lending far higher on the scrotum pole of evil than deception; but even this idea is not really true. There was a documentary a few years back entitled Maxed Out that included some illuminating if decidedly reticent testimony by one of the masterminds who made his living drafting some of the more impenetrable small print for credit card companies like Chase. If it wasn't the text book definition of deception, then it was close enough for jazz.

Go and get a pay day loan and tell me what interest rates they are charging without a free month thrown in. Again, credit card charges are excessive but they aren't deceptive (at least if you actually take the time to read the conditions). If you take out a credit card in the UK, then the charge is 17.9% APR for say a LloydsTSB card - a major bank. It may not be a low rate, but it is hardly usury.
Now, I have a problem with their practices for keeping 'good' customers on the hook by extending their credit or offering them additional cards, most particularly when they clearly know the income and the debt and the two don't line up, but somewhere along the line an individual has to take responsibility for their financial decisions. Clear cases of wrong-headed credit extensions are covered under UK regulations and in such cases, British citizens can have the debts cleared. I don't know the system in the US. Perhaps you could tell me.

Bigsby says

And hence it is convenient and so people have them.

Well, sure, if by convenient you mean it's convenient not to be dispossessed by a setback or series of setbacks; setbacks likely directly linked to, or at least exacerbated by the very same too-big- to-fail banks that issue these cards in the first place. What I'm attempting to illustrate here is that credit cards are accepted by most people as a basic necessity today, but marketed as a convenience. It's convenient not to starve, yes. But never mind all that. Try renting a car without one (or ATM card with Visa/MC logo). I'm not even sure it can be done. If it can, it's probably more than inconvenient. I also know certain retail concerns won't even deal with cash transactions at all.

Bigsby says

...somewhere along the line an individual has to take responsibility for their financial decisions.

Of course, I agree -- I'm merely challenging the popular perception that credit card abuse is mostly the result of reckless consumers who should be reading the small print closer and better living within their means. I think it's more to do with desperation.

JodyChunder says

I think it's more to do with desperation.

For some I'm sure. For others, it's just reckless expenditure on things they neither need nor can afford.

with print as fine as the eye can't see, I doubt it....

Bigsby says

JodyChunder says

I know if I was in the business of issuing consumer credit at usurious rates, it would sure help a lot if I had some venal lapdogs in the legislative branch that could help me engineer a playing field where such credit would be all but impossible for the middle class to live without.

It's a business model. You know what you are getting into when you sign up. That isn't deception.

SoftShell says

with print as fine as the eye can't see, I doubt it....

It's a credit card. It's not exactly the most complex of arrangements.

Actually, if you equip yourself with a magnifying glass and lawyer, it can be broken down plain and simple. So I guess you are right after all......

Bigsby says

SoftShell says

with print as fine as the eye can't see, I doubt it....

It's a credit card. It's not exactly the most complex of arrangements.

SoftShell says

Actually, if you equip yourself with a magnifying glass and lawyer, it can be broken down plain and simple. So I guess you are right after all......

Have you found the use of one problematic?

for you high fallutin ritzy fucks it's no problem. For the commoner, a lawyer at $ 500/hr is untenable. Especially if you need a credit card to pay....
Bigsby says

SoftShell says

Actually, if you equip yourself with a magnifying glass and lawyer, it can be broken down plain and simple. So I guess you are right after all......

Have you found the use of one problematic?

JodyChunder says

I think it's more to do with desperation.

I agree with that, but in our case it isn't.

Bigsby says

It's a credit card. It's not exactly the most complex of arrangements.

Before 2007 I never thought about credit cards. My wives have, my second, and current wife, but I have had my Sears Card, and Nordstrom, and Home Depot.

My second wife poured over the statements, got deals on travel, which I found ridiculous, and would argue with the issuer about fees she would find.

My current wife had twelve "special deal" cards from a variety of venders we have for the business.

The problem started with my Home Dopie card. I paid it off with the sale of a house.

I had closed the Citi Bank account when it was paid, but never checked the account again.

Evidently we had paid it off on a Tuesday before the cut off date of the due date on the account so there was an account balance of like $6.

Citi Bank has a policy of not sending statements on a closed account. I discovered the penalties, and interest when some collection department called.

We were selling properties to pay off debt. The funny thing was, and it is really kind of funny, is that when you close a credit card account it is your responsibilty to ensure it is closed, and stays closed.

Did you know that? That when you close an account the issuer doesn't have to close the account, or send you a statement? It's your responsibility to check your credit report to make sure you have that account closed.

It just became a game that I didn't want to play, or was inclined to pay.

We don't need credit cards. We make enough to pay everything we need, and always have.

So, for the banksters I have agreed to pay what is owed according to my accounting which deducts interest, and penalties. I agree they can keep what they got up to certain point but that's it.

Banks don't like my terms, some times, but most have taken payments with no interest.

Cool story bro.

SoftShell says

for you high fallutin ritzy fucks it's no problem. For the commoner, a lawyer at $ 500/hr is untenable. Especially if you need a credit card to pay....

Bigsby says

SoftShell says

Actually, if you equip yourself with a magnifying glass and lawyer, it can be broken down plain and simple. So I guess you are right after all......

Have you found the use of one problematic?

I was talking about a credit card.