patrick.net

OWS did not fail. Liberals think that we live in some magical fairy land of instant radical political gratification. Political reality shifts so slowly in this country that most liberals cannot even perceive what actual victory feels like. In some ways OWS was more successful than the TEA movement.

OWS was successful in precipitating a shift in popular perspective. Prior to OWS, all economic discourse centered around GDP growth. Today, disparity is routinely also discussed. OWS did nothing less than open up a new dimension in how we perceive the economy. The winning Presidential candidate in 2012 made wealth disparity ("strengthening the middle class") a major issue of his campaign. Creating a notion that wealth disparity is a thing that government should be worried about is a huge ideological coup for a country like this.

Furthermore, OWS did nothing more than that. That is a virtue. Contrast that with TEAism, which attempts to coopt and extort the GOP into adopting its agenda by running radicals in primary elections. Without TEAism, there is simply no way the Democrats could possibly have held the Senate for the last four years. Karl Rove just founded an organization to combat the threat TEA poses to the GOP's Senate aspirations through open and organized infighting. Perhaps even more significantly: with real power has come real scrutiny on their batshit extremist ideology. If Mitt Romney hadn't been forced to cover himself in that stinking taint during the Republican primary, he might be President today.

The wheels of politics turn slowly, but wealth disparity is a serious issue in national politics today, and OWS did nothing to sabotage its chances of leading to real policy changes. The only sense in which the movement was a failure is a simple artifact of the fact that liberals don't have the good sense to know when they're winning. Or, at least, not yet losing. See also: pretty much all liberal critiques of Barack Obama's first term.

msilenus says

Today, disparity is routinely also discussed.

Yeah that fucking Grandma collecting a $300 social security check to pay $1800 worth of bills, became the problem thanks to that narrative, that America's richest Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Mayor Bloomberg, directing the eye daggers from them selves to those who have it easier than the OWS participant who just got a Bachelor degree in Liberal Arts, and now demands to make as much money as someone in their prime with a lifetime of experience to guide them.

This was also the undoing of the Unions, so congradufuckinglations, for picking the worlds worse petty fight to pick. Now everyone wants to know what's in your wallet.

Meanwhile, Bloomberg, Gates, and Buffet, wealth quadrupled since Obama came in office. Welp gotta get back to my barricade, I've got OWS rabble at my door wanting to set me ablaze because I still have enough money in the bank to pay this months bills.

Best ways to get laid: Rock Star, Drug Dealer, Religious Leader, Politician, Pimp, Commune Leader, Revolutionary or some combo of the above.

Charlie Manson and his celebrity mass kill provided a nice social enema that at least ended the pretense of utopian sociopathy of the 60's.

Wall Street is now just a self cluster fucking nebula of computer information, ridden by a handfull of insecure money herders. How do you occupy that?

Occupy Wall Street was an extension of protests in Spain.

The problem here, in the United States, is that we weren't as cluster fucked as Europe, now China, Mexico, and South America.

We have bankruptcy, and foreclosure rights the other countries don't have. We don't have the same level of desperation.

You're right to point out the drum circle aspects of that movement here, it was more militant in Europe.

Let me also point out that the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s went nowhere until the Black Panther Party had an armed resistance, and the Chicago Seven gave a voice to what the black community wanted, they wanted power, and they got it.

Revolution takes armed resistance. Our country was founded on that set of principles.

David Losh says

The problem here, in the United States, is that we weren't as cluster fucked
as Europe, now China, Mexico, and South America.

You're killing me. We had protests by morons that carried signs that said "keep your government hands off of my social security". And those idiots were funded by billionaires, yes that's with a B, to shuttle around those morons like rock stars on rock star-type of buses.
OWs was a poorly thought out cry for attention by young and unskilled people that thought if you scream louder and more often, you'll get the results that you want, like a crying baby. It's funny but both of the above did the exact same thing, and the people associated with either group despise the other. Yet, they both tried the same tactics, with the same useless and predictable outcome.

Dumb and dumber comes to mind when I think of those 2 gropus of idiots.

I loathe the Tea Party and OWS equally.

For me, Anonymous is my preferred group. Instead of complaining about government spending while getting medicaid to pay for their motorized wheelchair so they can zoom back into Sizzler and eat all the mashed potatoes, making their diabetes worse, or complaining about teh evil Patriarchy and the necessity for everybody to eat uncooked vegetables, Anonymous actually fights the Power.

Everybody needs a Low Orbit Ion Cannon.

thunderlips11 says

I loathe the Tea Party and OWS equally.

But for different reasons. The Tea Party is organized and has an agenda, but it's evil. OWS has no goals, no organization, and no criteria for success. Sure, they "believe" in decentralized movements, but not a single one of them understands how distributed algorithms work.

thunderlips11 says

Anonymous actually fights the Power.

Defacing web sites may be a minor nuance and embarrassment, but they hardly motivate change. Denial of service attacks will disrupt business for a short period of time, but any major company will be back online shortly. The loss of revenue will be minimal, especially if purchases are only delayed instead of canceled.

Anonymous's biggest accomplishment was the one time it copied corporate email and released it causing the asshole Aaron Barr to resign as the corporation HBGary Federal was investigated for all its malfeasance. This is good, pretty much the same thing that Wikileaks does except for getting the data itself rather than relying on whistle-blowers, but that's only one instance and HBGary Federal is still in business. So other than ruining one asshole's career -- for which I am grateful -- what has that hacking instance accomplished?

Now if Anonymous could break into real government records, find evidence of illegal or unethical activity, and release it to Wikileaks, that would be much more useful. I'd love to see Anonymous find evidence of prosecutorial misconduct in the Central Park Five jogger rape case. There certainly is plenty of evidence to be found of misconduct before, during, and after the trial.

I've long self-identified as "Hippie, the rare capitalist variant." Therefore, I have been involved with various left-flavored movements and causes through my adult life and seen firsthand how they work.

One of the biggest differences between right and left, disaffected people who feel drawn toward the tea party OR the OWS movement, is this.
Conservatives by definition have a top-down, authoritarian structure, and they do NOT welcome dissent and different opinions. They form group structures which, through selected homogeny, can become strongly united and therefore powerful behind a given cause or mindset. They are great to be involved with, PROVIDED you agree with the dominant consensus reality.
"Liberals" (a term cheapened unto meaninglessness by sloppy misuse like overprinted unbacked currency) on the other hand, often value diversity of opinion SO MUCH that they are unwilling to take action to deal with even obvious crackpots and provacateurs. "Herding cats" is too kind of a description of what it is like trying to keep even a small group of widely varied people with differing, sometimes competing agendas, focused on presenting a uniform, coherent message to the public at large.
There is a time and place to paint your body and skip nearly naked with a flute, or possibly even to shit on a flag, but FFS, SOMEONE needed to tell those people to take it somewhere else when reporters were showing the world the OWS demonstrations, IF they (individually and collectively) had any motivation to win others to the cause.
I agree that the OWS movement was not wasted entirely; some of its memes live on and have gained traction in the mind of main street America. Thanks to the loons and crackpots getting so much attention in the MSM, the only way forward for the movement is to reinvent itself as something newer and better. There are legions of Americans who would benefit greatly from the reforms sought by the original OWS movement; however, if you say "Occupy Wall Street" to them, they tune out and reject you by the second syllable.

thunderlips11 says

‘The Quit India Movement of Gandhi practically died out long before 1947 and there was nothing in the Indian situation at that time, which made it necessary for the British to leave India in a hurry. Why then did they do so?’ In reply Attlee cited several reasons, the most important of which were the INA activities of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, which weakened the very foundation of the British Empire in India, and the RIN Mutiny which made the British realize that the Indian armed forces could no longer be trusted to prop up the British.

who would I have guessed that my forum moniker, RIN, would be a part of history :-)

upisdown says

You're killing me.

You're ignorant.

Dan8267 says

The Tea Party is organized and has an agenda,

Really? Disrupting Congress is an agenda?

Automan Empire says

"Hippie, the rare capitalist variant."

and finally the Hippie reference.

Occupy Wall Street had one message of the 99%. That's it.

Wealth and power was Europe. Old money holding public court, holding all the cards, all the time, for centuries, thousands of years.

Now they have tenuous holdings, more body guards, fewer people paying the mortgages, bad stocks, very bad stocks, and a false set of economies.

Here we had one message of the 99% that are The People. It helped get an African American elected President of the United States of America. We have pot shops on a lot of corners, we have gay marriage, gay rights, a powerful African American Community. It's all because we are the 99%.

End of the war in Iraq, Afghanistan?

and the tea party brought us grid lock in Congress. Give me a frigging break.

Actually I think OWS was an extreme success. Yes, as you commented; David Losh says

Occupy Wall Street had one message of the 99%. That's it.

Why do you think when Romney stated that he really didn't care about the 'other 47%' people went bat shit crazy? It is simply because, whether or not they consciously supported OWS or not, the message of the reality that they did not belong to the same privileged class as the 1% and of Romney's of the world, and their special breaks for everything. Hell, I credit OWS with 99% of jilting this election into the Obama camp and of course, Romney 1% for making this stupid statement. People are now keenly aware that the rules for the ultra rich are completely different than the rules for the rest of us. The geni is out of the bottle. The conversation has changed. Based on this example alone I would say that OWS were a HUGE success.

The tea party (taxed enough already) has more in common with the outrage that sparked OWS than is commonly acknowledges by the lamestream media. Both groups are outraged at the bailouts and spending taxpayer money to backstop reckless actions by banksters and Wall Street fatcats.

You peasants always fail at everything...

What's new that I haven't heard?

David Losh says

Dan8267 says

The Tea Party is organized and has an agenda,

Really? Disrupting Congress is an agenda?

In all seriousness, yes. Disrupting Congress, especially during a session when the other party is the majority and has the White House, is most certainly a political agenda.

Disrupting Congress worked for Republicans during the Carter administration and it got them Reagan. Disrupting Congress has worked well for the Republicans during the Obama administration as well. It has prevented real health care reform, closing tax loopholes, and raising taxes on the rich, all of which are Tea Party issues.

Yes, the Tea Party has an agenda. Yes, that agenda includes disrupting Congress while the Democrats hold the majority and the White House. Yes, that agenda includes other things like protecting the rich. And yes, the Tea Party is accomplishing its agenda despite huge popular opposition to all their ideas.

It doesn't matter that the Tea Party is composed of morons. What matters is that they are highly vocal, highly organized, highly unified morons, and that is what makes them dangerous. It would be foolish to underestimate the damage they can do. On the bright side, the extremist positions of the Tea Party is nailing the coffin of the Republican Party. They are the death rattle of the GOP.

David Losh says

upisdown
says

You're killing me.

You're ignorant.

I wouldn't say that I'm ignorant of the huge societal progress of the OWS movement, because there weren't any.

David Losh says

Here we had one message of the 99% that are The People. It helped get an
African American elected President of the United States of America. We have pot
shops on a lot of corners, we have gay marriage, gay rights, a powerful African
American Community. It's all because we are the 99%.

Yea, THAT'S WHO elected Obama and WHY. Romney just being Romney, had absolutely nothing to do with it. LOL.

Dan8267 says

Yes, the Tea Party has an agenda. Yes, that agenda includes disrupting
Congress while the Democrats hold the majority and the White House. Yes, that
agenda includes other things like protecting the rich. And yes, the Tea Party is
accomplishing its agenda despite huge popular opposition to all their ideas.

It doesn't matter that the Tea Party is composed of morons. What matters is
that they are highly vocal, highly organized, highly unified morons, and that is
what makes them dangerous. It would be foolish to underestimate the damage they
can do. On the bright side, the extremist positions of the Tea Party is nailing
the coffin of the Republican Party. They are the death rattle of the GOP

They want the staus quo of times past, and that doesn't include a black president, and that's it. But their organization and unity is funded by the same old mechanisms of the republican party. It's not very hard or creative to amp up the yocals in regards to their fear or hatred.

And the tea party is backed with tons of cash from a variety of Republican and Conservative Activist Groups, Foundations, etc.

OWS? Not so much.

Rin says

who would I have guessed that my forum moniker, RIN, would be a part of history :-)

Ha! Didn't notice that until you pointed it out. Good job with the mutiny!

upisdown says

I wouldn't say that I'm ignorant of the huge societal progress of the OWS movement, because there weren't any.

You should read more about political movements, and the accomplishments of small things, like the Black Panther Party which you dismissed.

Like I said Occupy Wall Street was an extension of a more extreme set of protests in Madrid Spain. The hangers on are irrelevant.

It's like the peace, and love idiots of the 1960s, they did nothing, but they did present a message of revolution.

Dan8267 says

What matters is that they are highly vocal, highly organized, highly unified morons, and that is what makes them dangerous.

I go along with that. They are also presenting a message of fiscal responsibility that seems to be taking hold.

David Losh says

I go along with that. They are also presenting a message of fiscal responsibility that seems to be taking hold.

If the Tea Party gave a rat's ass about fiscal responsibility, they would be for cutting warfare spending by 90%. Instead they are for increasing warfare spending.

We had to spend a lot on warfare during the Cold War in order to drive the Soviet Union into bankruptcy. Well, job done. Once the Soviet threat was eliminated, any rational person would cut warfare spending dramatically. But that's not what happened.

Greedy corporations and government teat suckers didn't want their revenue and cushy government jobs to go away. As a result, we kept increasing warfare spending every year. In order to justify this non-sense, the war industry had to invent new bad guys, and in order to do that, they had to make the world a much less safe place.

Yet, the Tea Party still wants more government waste on unnecessary wars that hurt our national security. The Tea Party is not, and has never been, fiscally responsible by any sane definition.

Unless Warfare spending is cut at least 90%, our country will collapse for the exact same reason the Soviet Union did, utter bankruptcy and economic failure.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

If change is to come to America, it can only arrive at our shore after all the bankers' faces are eaten live and wriggling from their skulls and their empty eyes skull fucked in the name of Freedom.

Are you with me, America?

Sorry, my dick is too big to fit into the beady little eye sockets of bankers. Perhaps another orifice?

Dan8267 says

The Tea Party is not, and has never been, fiscally responsible by any sane definition.

It's like the OWS movement, the movement was transitory, but the message got heard.

I agree about the military, the military agrees about the military budget.

When the Tea Party and Occupy found they had a lot of common ground, the oligarchy started supporting homo-pedo as a way to divide them again, and it worked.

/

Tea Party became MAGA.

Occupy Wall Street became AntiFa, Bend the Arc, and DEI hires for corporate America (ranging from Lockheed Martin to JP Morgan) besides the typical career path like campaign staff for RFK junior and Birdbrain Biden.

/

https://barsoom.substack.com/p/political-conflict-in-the-age-of

Benz doesn’t mention it, but Occupy Wall Street was probably the establishment’s first ‘oh shit’ moment regarding the politically disruptive potential of social media. It came out of nowhere, within no time at all it was everywhere, and it brought together a broad spectrum of malcontents across traditional ideological boundaries. Occupy is left-coded now, so people forget that in its gestational phase tankies and anarcho-syndicalists were marching alongside End-the-Fed Ron Paulists and techno-libertarians, all of them united against the extractive criminality of Wall Street and its cozy, too-big-to-fail relationship with FedGov. The Regime put the uprising down in short order, and then opportunistically hijacked the movement’s cultural momentum to inject Woke into the everyone’s veins. That said, it should not be ruled out that Occupy was not spontaneous: it’s possible that it was a 5GW op from the beginning, intended to harness popular outrage against the bailouts following the real estate implosions, and direct it towards popularization of the race communism that took over the West over the past decade.

MisdemeanorRebel says

Yep. Basically Mykeru's law. The moment the public saw pictures of camps dominated by Drum circles, Anarcho-Feminist Teach Ins, Hackey Sack kicking, and signs supporting the Revolutionary Committee for the Spartacus League, they lost all interest.

That's why the "news" media showed those pictures, exclusively.

If they didn't exist naturally, they would have been hired by the intelligence agencies for photo shoots of them being there. Every movement is infiltrated and our "news" system is part of that infiltration.

Don't you realize our media is just propaganda? "Donald Trump is a threat to our democracy!" "300,000 dead from coronavirus, stay home and stay safe. Get your vaccine". "Putin invaded Ukraine for no reason at all" "Assad is gassing his own people" Qaddafi is about to cause a humanitarian crisis". "Hunter Biden's laptop is Russian disinformation".

It's been this way forever. They tried to stop the anti-war movement of Vietnam by associating it with a bunch of stinking, drug addled hippies. They weren't trying to help, but sentiment against that stupid war was so large, it was embraced instead. Nobody really liked the hippies, saw them as stupid worthless kids, mostly low level criminals and scum - still the war was worse.