patrick.net

I'm Independent, but the Current incarnation of Liberals running around wearing the Democrat hat, will have me voting Republican if that's the only choice.

Even Perry as bad of a choice he sounds, he's not Obama.

Kind of like Obama wasn't Bush.

It would be nice if the Democrat party would own up to the huge steaming pile of Shit that is in the oval office right now and actively work to replace him with a suitable candidate.
Though honestly, I can't think of one single Liberal I would support right now. They are all a gaggle of Jackals.

Truthplease says

Never before has the debt ceiling been tied to the budget or debt.

Never before? Are you serious? As just one simple example, perhaps you should look up the debt limit vote in 2006 and read what Sen. Obama had to say when he voted against it. His words were absolutely true then, and apply even more now. So if you want to the "truth please," you'll at the very least accept that your "never before" assumption is simply false. And by definition, the debt ceiling is tied to the debt. That is why there is a vote on it every time.

We have budgets that have been passed that need to be paid and were passed by congress.

Yes, and the partisan voting patterns on both sides is pretty clear to see.

When George Bush doubled the national Debt from 5.7 to 11 trillion, where were the Republican's outcry then?

A valid question then, which is why conservatives were not particularly happy with Bush's quite un-conservative fiscal policies, nor Republican support of them, and part of why Republicans were trounced in 2006 and 2008.

Not a valid question now, because the new breed of Republican, i.e., the anti-spending "Tea Party" type, was not in office back then. If they fail to live up to their promises, as Democrats including Obama are trying to force them to do (e.g., via the alleged "Jobs Act") then your question may be valid in the future.

You're in a tough spot. You want the truth and you don't like the Republicans for many real reasons (and some not-real ones like the "never before" comment), yet you can't claim by any basis at all that the Dems are any better.

Paralithodes says

So if you want to the "truth please," you'll at the very least accept that your "never before" assumption is simply false. And by definition, the debt ceiling is tied to the debt. That is why there is a vote on it every time.

I will have to do some more research on that. The simple man arguement in me just doesn't understand this. If you vote for a budget and that budget has to increase the debt ceiling, why are they grandstanding on the debt ceiling?

Paralithodes says

yet you can't claim by any basis at all that the Dems are any better.

Yes, that is my problem right now. The right is much too radicalized for me to be comfortable with. The Dems are a pill much easier to swallow. I may have to go independent on this vote. Obama promised a lot but doesn't seem to have the fortitude to follow through. GITMO, Troop Levels, I would have expected some Bankers indicted, people need to be fired, etc...