patrick.net

Man. Me and you sound like twins or something because I too am into audio, working on cars, and tinkering in the garage. The thing is that I didn't have to buy to have these things. I rent a large 4 Bdrm house in the East Bay for about $1,750 with another housemate who's seldom home. We have a garage, a long driveway ( room for 4-5 cars) and a sizable yard. The thing about your audio comments is that buying a house doesn't mean you're going to be able to suddenly crank up the volume: You're going to have neighbors and they're likely going to get pissed if they hear thudding bass all day. I also have a sort of cut-off time when I stop working on cars if it involves things like grinders, air wrenches, and other loud things... which means most of the time I quit by 9:00PM. I'm also careful to make sure that if I'm working with things like carb cleaner, oil, or whatnot that I do a careful job of cleaning those things up. I have a fairly large stereo out in the garage too. But I seldom crank the thing up that loud and I turn it off by 7-8PM.

Basically we rent what you would like to buy and as far as I'm concerned if you plan on staying in a major metro area that as crammed with people as the Bay Area, you'll have limitations as far as what you can realistically do. I say this because I grew up in a rural area where we NEVER gave a second thought about working on things in the shop until 2:00AM. I felt like I had a lot more freedom in that kind of environment: You can own a big chunk of land far from the neighbors for cheap, build whatever you want, when you want, and basically have a little piece of paradise to yourself. Out here I feel that even if you own a home, you really don't "own" it per say because 10-20 feet away is another house right up next to yours and as such you have to constantly remain reasonably quite and courteous for the sake of your neighbors.

This is one of the many reasons we're probably moving out of here once we've saved a big enough stack of cash to buy our own chunk of land somewhere else- maybe 10-20 minutes out of some 2nd tier smaller metro like Nashville, Austin, or whatnot.

Good points. I can definitely see how living around here can put serious limitations on projects. When I was using my parents' garage for projects (I still can if I drive there, but I feel bad making a mess in there), I had similar rules about power tools & noise.

If I did have my own garage around here, part of the plan would be to strip it to the studs & install some heavy acoustic damping materials on all sides & in the rafters. With some time, money & effort you can definitely build yourself an acoustically isolated space. It will be a bit expensive, but it is an option if you own (or the landlord is OK with you doing it).

For now, I am considering a membership at The Sawdust Shop in Sunnyvale. You pay monthly dues and get to use a fully equipped shop with more tools than any individual would ever fit into a garage. Another option I have considered is renting a U-Store type space & using it as a workshop. A number of them around here have small bathrooms & a little office...if I could get a few people in on one, it would be a great alternative. Those places are usually pretty far from houses, so noise would be less of an issue too.

In mid 20s, married, with a dog. Have been renting since graduating college. Would like a yard and privacy and ability to update without having to change things back the way they were. Rates are super low and rent is increasing yearly (even though I fight it). It's a PITA to keep moving each year to find a cheaper place to rent from.

I live in central Florida area.

When I have been a renter at various points, I have done many of those things. It's easy enough to have a yard or detached walls as a renter -- just rent a house. I think the exception would be landscaping-type things (e.g. I'd plant some fruit-bearing trees, for example). However, it's possible to do such things in planter boxes, as friends of mine have done.

To ryan7013's point, it's not impossible to be a longer-term renter. When I have rented, I have signed leases longer than 1 year, and certainly even stayed somewhere more than 1 year even as month-to-month for a significant period of time.

I've been fairly lucky with my renting and working on cars situation. My previous place didn't have a garage. But it had a couple of parking spaces and believe it or not I restored a 55' Ford over the course of a summer in one of the spots- no garage of nothing. The Landlord was fine with it as long as I kept it cleaned up. The same goes for my current landlord. In fact I sometimes help him fix his cars. I still work on most of my cars outside in the driveway because there's more ventilation and room.

Now- to directly answer your question about "Why I want to buy", well it basically comes down to a few things- some of which I will unashamedly admit to.

1: I hate debt and so does my Wife. So the idea is to buy a house outright for cash. Hence the plan to move away from here. Doing so would enact a plan in which suddenly jobs and careers would become less important and the requirement to make a high income becomes unnecessary. With no house or car payments ( I keep cars forever) We would have very little in terms of monthly expenses. The house in this sense would basically provide the means to cut out a major monthly expense. My target max price is between 150-200k.

2: Yes... I sort of like the idea of owning a house. Sort of a nice "Cozy" feeling. That said- and going back to No.1, buying one here in the Bay Area would scare the crap out of me. The prices means having a relentlessly due payment, one that would be due every month and one that would likely be a lot more than what I am paying in rent. But owning- as in I actually own the house- is a nice idea.

3: I collect a lot of junk. I like the idea of having a permanent place to display it. In the back of my head I have this fear that someday when we move- its going to be a nightmare because over the past 8 years we've amassed a LOT of junk. Moving that will be a big undertaking. It would be nice knowing that since we own the house, all the stuff in it is somewhat permanent.

If I live in a place where it's cheaper to buy than rent, it is nice to have the personal space and avoid the hassle of moving. Also having the personal space means that you can design and maintain your livable space like you want without any landlord restrictions.

I do not like getting into huge debt which is why I hate 30 yr mortgages. With a 10 or 15 yr mortgage, if I have the ability to service the debt in a meaningful fashion - then that debt is productive and helps me get to the future where I don't have to pay rent at all. When I try to see if the mortgage on a 10-15yr loan covers the rent, I don't find any houses that are desirable LOL. The whole real estate market is tilted towards ensuring you get into long-term debt.

austrian...just because you get a 30 year mortgage doesn't mean you have to take 30 years to pay it off...

Hey Edvard2 - good idea I am 20 minutes outside of Nashville now - 2 houses (1 rental) on 8 acres. Have lived in apartments and houses in bay area and LA for 20+ years so I feel I have a good comparison.

Primarily when married with kids it is more about day to day conveniences of life and financial. Buying settles you in to a commute, school zone, predictable places to get your stuff done. Predictable payments, enjoyment of the home when you can adjust it to suit you and know the investment is yours. I think it is age related too...mid 40's you just don't want to have to keep starting over anymore. That might be boring to a single person in their 20's.

I did earlier on get the benefit of trying on different lifestyles that came with moving just about every 2-5 years though it does come at a price. Every time you move the old furniture and decorations don't quite fit and you end up spending a lot to get the place to your taste from house to apartment to house again.

It's cool to think back on how fun it was to live in an apartment in Marina del Rey but in the 1990's renting a 2 bdrm apt was $1250 - you can imagine what it is now...over $2k. Lifestyle factors are more important than the money though I think.