patrick.net

madhaus says

Burbed traffic is definitely down compared to 2008. We always appreciate it when Patrick links to one of our articles.

2008 was the peak for distinct IP addresses per day visiting the Patrick.net website as well, at about 18,000 per day. Now it's about 12,000 per day on the website, but the email subscribers to the links went from nothing to about 9,000 per day. So overall a gain, but a shift away from reading the links on the web to getting them by email. The number of comments per day on the forum has also grown strongly for the last 3 years, after going back and forth at first:

The site is usually 1st in Google for lots of terms like "housing market news" or "housing crash" but has a high bounce rate, like 53%, so 53% of people who get there from Google immediately go somewhere else. Not sure why. Maybe because it's too much text.

On the other hand, the people who poke around the site usually stay. The site has a very high loyalty, with the majority of readers visiting every day.

Of course I'd like to improve all that.

Well the first 3 years of this site half the posts were preoccupied with 'are we in a housing bubble?/ if so when/how far will prices crash'.

Well if you live in flyover things are probably near bottom.

The policitcs is interesting because the dem/repubs all want to 'make housing only go up' and make us all debt slaves to banks. Yes even the democrats! Obama is the bailout king version #2 - and has said 'we need to put a floor under house prices' even BEFORE he was elected.

Of course the main difference between Obama and Bush is ....nothing. Still fighting the same wars and the Feds still raid the pot houses in CA. WTF has changed?

I'm not a SEO or specialist but to me the reason why RE sites still attract people is because real estate and housing is as much an emotional, social issue as a financial one. The symbolism behind owning a house has more meaning than the house itself and when we can't have one or easily buy one then the gut reaction is that its unfair. This is especially true in the Bay Area where despite the higher salaries professionals who "should" be able to buy a house can't or won't because suddenly doing so starts to lose rationality. Its also because a lot of people here feel that they "should" be able to buy a house yet they can't and want to know why- an answer they will probably never fully receive.

Many of these sites I feel are used as people to either justify their thoughts, plans, or reasons for buying, not buying, or otherwise. Its a sort of reassurance. It boils down to the same basic questions:

" Houses are expensive here.... should I buy?" or- I'm frustrated that I can't afford or can't rationalize buying a house here but that's ok because I'm a rational person and thus I am smarter for not doing so."

The other reason that RE sites are a draw still is also because during the bubble there was a perhaps irrational and highly believed line of thought that there would be a crash and instantly we would all be able to scoop up houses we rightly deserved at prices we could easily afford because we had all been soooo smart for staying out of the whole mess. Yet that didn't happen and for all practical matters the Bay Area is as expensive as ever, prices barely budged in any of the central locations and people are still happy as clams to plunk down half a mil for a POS. Not much has changed and this probably makes a lot of those who were counting on the crash to bring down prices disappointed. As long as places like the Bay Area have irrationally priced housing sites like these will probably do just fine.

but has a high bounce rate, like 53%, so 53% of people who get there from Google immediately go somewhere else. Not sure why. Maybe because it's too much text.

Say, what if I put some new piece of cheesecake on the home page each day? Just to get attention from the men at least, and lower the bounce rate. Actually, I've read that women also prefer to look at good-looking women:

I could include a disclaimer like "She has nothing whatsoever to do with this site. She is there just to catch your attention."

You should feature 'hottie realtor of the day'.
THEN IS REAL ESTATE RELATED! lol

The drawback is you will have to look at 350 fify seven year old ladies to find one hottie.

here is the link

http://www.realtor.com/realestateagents/?source=web

edvard2 says

I'm not a SEO or specialist but to me the reason why RE sites still attract people is because real estate and housing is as much an emotional, social issue as a financial one.

I think everything you said in that comment is true. But even if prices in the Bay Area are still way too high, interesting things are going to continue to happen, like the lowering of the jumbo loan limit, and that inevitable major earthquake.

PockyClipsNow says

You should feature 'hottie realtor of the day'.

THEN IS REAL ESTATE RELATED! lol

The drawback is you will have to look at 350 fify seven year old ladies to find one hottie.

here is the link

http://www.realtor.com/realestateagents/?source=web

Hey, they don't have a "search realtors by hotness" option! That's definitely an unserved market.

LOL. Good idea Patrick.

larrypatrickmaloney says

If Patrick doesn't mend his ways, this site will not remain a haven for real estate watchers, and will pass away

Larry,
sounds like you need to make your own website.

It isn't conservatism or liberalism that is screwing everything up. It's corporatism.

I'm with Larry on this one. This blog started off so well circa 2006, which is when I started reading. Over the past number of years the leftist, nonsense propaganda that has crept in has been disgusting, and offensive at times. I'm not right wing republican either so don't start throwing those darts either. It's been really sad. So I've since taken to just subscribing to the blogs that provide useful, nonpartisan, real estate information. Patrick, you always talk about keeping you're site alive with donations. I would happily give had you not introduced so much political garbage into your site. I am a physician and we spend much of our training these days being "culturally/politically/religiously sensitive". You would catch, maintain, and retain a mucher wider base if you kept the focus of your site on what it started out as. Many of my friends that I initially turned on to your site have since stopped reading for the same reasons. Its obviously your site that you can do what you want with, and that is still part of what makes the US "ok". Just some suggestions. Take care.

PasadenaNative says

Don't give in Patrick, I'm about as Left as one can get and I don't see this as a Lefty page by a long shot. All of us citizens who are educated and rational must bear the brunt of the Idiocracy....

I am educated (MD with 5 years of post medical school education for a total of 13 years after high school, I'm sure that's more than you) and am not part of any idocracy. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're part an "idocracy", unless, of course, that is how you define it, which you may.

Common Sense Citizen says

Over the past number of years the leftist, nonsense propaganda that has crept in has been disgusting, and offensive at times.

Gee, how did you miss all the rightist nonsense propaganda? There are just as many right wingnuts posting as left wingnuts. Use the ignore.

bob2356 says

Common Sense Citizen says

Over the past number of years the leftist, nonsense propaganda that has crept in has been disgusting, and offensive at times.

Gee, how did you miss all the rightist nonsense propaganda? There are just as many right wingnuts posting as left wingnuts. Use the ignore.

I'm talking about the links on the right side of the page, not the forum stuff.

Common Sense Citizen says

the leftist, nonsense propaganda that has crept in has been disgusting, and offensive at times. I'm not right wing republican either

No one but a right wing republican ever says things like "leftist, nonsense propoganda".

Like Larry, you feel compelled to defend a ruling class that could not care less about you, because you hope to join them one day. And that hope blinds you to the fact that they are IN YOUR WAY.

Your income is probably mostly a high salary as a doctor, right? So you pay the maximum income tax. Their income is far higher and does not require your skills, and does not even require doing anything useful at all. They could be a blithering idiot with a giant trust fund. Their income is just from mere ownership and monopolization of land and other assets. And their tax rates are much lower!

How are you going to join them when:

A: your time is far more limited because you actually do something useful all day
B: your income from that productive work is lower than theirs
C: your taxes are higher than theirs

You will always lose ground to them until we have fair taxes. Meaning low taxes on productive work and high taxes on non-productive ownership and rent-seeking.

Like Larry, you feel compelled to defend a ruling class that could not care less about you, because you hope to join them one day. And that hope blinds you to the fact that they are IN YOUR WAY.

Nope, absolutely not. I'm not hoping to join those that I detest. I despise gwb, I despise wall street, and I despise partisan politics in general. So you're wrong there. I'm actually totally fine with taxing the megabillionaires that are siphoning more and more money from the working class.

Your income is probably mostly a high salary as a doctor, right?

No there too, if you must know, I am decidedly middle class (maybe) in orange county, and currently my wife and I rent a 950 sq foot apartment. My family's household income growing up was $35k, and I put myself through all stages of my education......living at home and driving a 40 year old vw beetle.

So yeah there is a part of me that is all about personal responsibility and getting things done yourself, but I would be remiss to not see what has gone on with crony capitalism over the last few decades.

So you pay the maximum income tax. Their income is far higher and does not require your skills, and does does not even require doing anything useful at all.

Yes!!!!! I couldn't agree more which is what I noted above!!! Tax those that make millions more.......especially the finance bozos that provide zero use to us. Then we get to athletes and celebrities but I guess that's another argument entirely.

Their income is just from mere ownership and monopolization of land and other assets. And their tax rates are much lower!
How are you going to join them when:
A: your time is far more limited because you actually do something useful all day
B: your income from that productive work is lower than theirs
C: your taxes are higher than theirs

I do not expect to join them ever, and all of your points are valid.

You will never catch them until we have fair taxes. Meaning low taxes on productive work and high taxes on non-productive ownership and rent-seeking.

I don't disagree with much of what you say, but some of the one sided links You post were pretty egregious. Like I said, I have read your site since 2006 and it has been great, but I have reD much less over the last few years as have many of my friends.

Common Sense Citizen says

Tax those that make millions more.......especially the finance bozos that provide zero use to us.

Leftist nonsense propaganda!

:-)

BTW, to quote someone, just select the bit of text you want to quote and click the "Quote" link above the comment.

Common Sense Citizen says

Tax those that make millions more.......especially the finance bozos that provide zero use to us.

Leftist nonsense propaganda!:-)

BTW, to quote someone, just select the bit of text you want to quote and click the "Quote" link above the comment.

I did hit the quote button, but the function didn't work btw.

Like I said I'm not left or right. But I do hate the hate mongering towards certain groups.

Just the other day you posted a link about how doctors make "too much money". Really? That should be on a real estate blogging website coming from someone who has zero idea about what goes into being a doctor or the sacrifices that have to be made. Or calling tea party people stupid. That's the garbage I'm talking about. The one thing B. Hussein could have done was reel in the finance industry and he didn't. Instead he ramrodded through "health care reform" that nobody wanted.

Leftist nonsense propaganda!

Wait a second here...

No one but a right wing republican ever says things like "leftist, nonsense propoganda".

Are you really a right wing republican?

bob2356 says

There are just as many right wingnuts posting as left wingnuts.

Go hangout at your local occupy movement protest, and you will get an earful of what is going on in the brain of a true to life left wing nut job. I have yet to see anyone post on Pnet with that extreme left wing point of view.

Patrick is really APOCALYPSE.... in disguise.

Truth.

Common Sense Citizen says

etain a mucher wider base if you kept the focus of your site on what it started out as.

I agree to that.

and
everyday , every prime time news channel talk about some politics. Politic news is now mainstream. News organizations
keep repeating the same news over and over again, (cheap that way), seems like everyday we hear something about "obama" or "election". I so tired of hearing politics, when all they do is debate their egos, and don't do anything to drastically change the status quo. of the economy.

your site is just a debate between individual egos...

Common Sense Citizen says

Or calling tea party people stupid. That's the garbage I'm talking about. The one thing B. Hussein could have done was reel in the finance industry and he didn't. Instead he ramrodded through "health care reform" that nobody wanted.

If you're going to make comments like that, you just might be stupid. Again, as everyone except the brainwashed ideologues know, ObamaCare is basically the Republican health plan from the 1990s. The Heritage Foundation wrote about it.

Second, it's not clear that "nobody" wanted it. In fact, last I checked, more than 50 senators and more than half of the voting representatives voted for it. And, it was written by the Blue Dogs, who are generally known as moderates, although moderates generally mean right of center on the left/right spectrum and more authoritarian than libertarian on that spectrum.

leoj707 says

Go hangout at your local occupy movement protest, and you will get an earful of what is going on in the brain of a true to life left wing nut job.

That's probably not even true. I passed by a local Occupy protest recently, and all they were saying was to prosecute the banksters for fraud and to put the executives in jail. For the kind of gross incompetence they engaged in, many banksters should be fired. For the fraud that some of them committed, those people should go to jail. I didn't hear anything other than this.

Yes, there are leftists around, but I haven't seen very many of them here. There is one prominent one on SocketSite.

corntrollio says

That's probably not even true. I passed by a local Occupy protest recently, and all they were saying was to prosecute the banksters for fraud and to put the executives in jail. For the kind of gross incompetence they engaged in, many banksters should be fired. For the fraud that some of them committed, those people should go to jail. I didn't hear anything other than this.

Hangout for an hour or two, read all the signs, and talk to a couple of people. You will get your share of idiotic ramblings that lack basic critical thinking skills, at least I did. Of course they are not all that way most are well spoken and know what they are talking about.

I would not say I feel "hate" for dirty hippies(or wookies), but I don't like them. I did like this article posted by Patrick:
http://www.businessinsider.com/occupy-wall-street-yes-i-hate-hippies-2011-10?source=patrick.net

Common Sense Citizen says

Just the other day you posted a link about how doctors make "too much money".

Have some memory of that link but I can't find it. Anyway, here's a good substitute:

http://www.worldsalaries.org/generalphysician.shtml

US physicians are the highest paid in the world. Whether or not it's "too much", it definitely contributes to the higher per-capita spending on health care in the US.

Common Sense Citizen says

Instead he ramrodded through "health care reform" that nobody wanted.

Not nobody, not by a long shot. I wanted it and many millions of people who suffer from our ridiculous medical billing and insurance system, but have to admit reform was not done very well so far. Has giveaways to the insurance and drug companies, and no real control of the underlying costs.

And like corntrollio said above "ObamaCare is basically the Republican health plan from the 1990s." That's a good measure of how extremely far right the right wing has gone. They don't even recognize their own former self.

agree both side have more in common then they realize, if they would just stop calling each other names and hating on each other, they would realize they are both getting fucked by the people in power.
Obama-Bush, Democrat-Republican, neither side are serving the people.

Teabaggers and the wallstreet hippies are angry about the same thing, they just don't know it yet.

i basically stopped having opinions on poliitcs, and am much happier. total.waste.of.time.

once you adopt the bernie madoff sociopath mentality this country is fooking awsome!

I'm slacking off at work right now while being paid - not much of a crime compared to bernie, but there it is. fukem.

joshuatrio says

Patrick is really APOCALYPSE.... in disguise.

Truth.

No, but I'm honored. Apocalypsefuck is a genius.

leoj707 says

Hangout for an hour or two, read all the signs, and talk to a couple of people. You will get your share of idiotic ramblings that lack basic critical thinking skills, at least I did. Of course they are not all that way most are well spoken and know what they are talking about.

I'm sure there are some whackjobs too, but that's true of Teabagger rallies too, and pretty much every other political rally. The Teabagger one I saw in San Jose for protesting healthcare reform, it seemed like everyone had pulled grandma out of the nursing home so she could hold a sign they created for her. Most of the grandma-types looked addle-minded, like they thought they were at a "Eisenhower for President" rally. The irony is that grandma wants the federal government involved in health insurance because she's probably on Medicare, so it's pretty stupid for her to be robotically holding up "get government out of my healthcare" signs. Child and grandchild fail.

Serpentor says

agree both side have more in common then they realize, if they would just stop calling each other names and hating on each other, they would realize they are both getting fucked by the people in power.
Obama-Bush, Democrat-Republican, neither side are serving the people.
Teabaggers and the wallstreet hippies are angry about the same thing, they just don't know it yet.

I agree.

How is it not obvious that the left-right/democrat-republican scenario in this country is just a ruse, a trick? The old "divide and conquer" strategy. Loyalty to one side or another keeps us from uniting and overthrowing those who are screwing over the masses, whether you believe them to be banksters or politicos. They are in bed with each other.

Further, if one is uncomfortable with the range of opionions on this site, going to a "comfortable site" for them is absolutely a great idea. We wouldn't want them to stretch outside their comfort zone, now would we?

Patrick.net is NOT doomed but USA seems to be doomed right now.

I pray for the liberals....LOL. I'm pretty much a live and let live person. Don't understand the Bay Area politics, but then they don't understand someone who spent 26 years in the military.

I guess that makes us even.

I have been viewing patrick.net for a little over a year now. And, I too have noticed more left-leaning links over the past 6 months or so. I come here for the actual real estate articles. But, much like I can do with a radio, I am perfectly capable of skipping all the absurd, loony leftist articles (I am smart enough to be able to tell from the ridiculous article titles), much like lefties should be able to turn the radio station if they don't like what's being said.

Since this whole invade Wall Street stuff has started, there have been even fewer articles on real estate than I would like. But, I don't mind. Like many have said, this is patrick.net, and if patrick.net can make money spewing forth that drivel (like the asinine "99% line"), more power to him. As long as there are still some real estate articles every once in awhile, it's fine with me. If they wholly disappear, I will just find info elsewhere. It's not a big deal. Nobody makes me come here, I am not required to read everything, and I don't even have to pay.

lol these newbie retards are coming out of the woodwork! seems like a ingenious plan to generate traffic to this site! well done!

Just a show of support... I hardly ever comment (most comments serve only vanity), but I read every day. I find Patrick's own posts the most valuable, actually. They're concise, clear, and empirical. Based on what I've seen it's ridiculous to label this site as left or right, mostly because those labels have become functionally irrelevant. To me, Patrick addresses more relevant issues.

I like this site for the same reason I liked Patrick's "Why it's a terrible time..." essay. The reasoning is straightforward and compelling.

Keep up the good work!

I saw this Video today. This is from a conservative paper, in a conservative part of the world. I think it shows how skewed America has become

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/u-politics-took-world-edge-armageddon-martin-wolf-131324094.html?sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

Meanwhile, on the topic of commies -- here's a couple of notorious lefty bastards for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkkSNMCVwKA

Let a long-time lurker add his kudos to Patrick for this site. I had a long post, but it turned into a rant, so I erased it. Suffice it to say that I have been reading this site nearly every day for some years, and I don't intend to stomp off angrily spewing spittle and muttering, "damn commies and dirty hippies."

On that point, the irrational hatred and fear of "dirty hippies," even forty years after the failure of the revolution, only demonstrate how repression needs sublimation. To those of you who feel such revulsion, I urge you to examine your inmost desires. Perhaps you wish you could be one, too.

Notice what I write about not politics whatever the fuck that word means. I'll give a brief explanation. Once again Greece was always of divide and conqueor. Divide the people they are at each other. Let them defeat themselves. Simple fucking math.

Very low IQ people address politics oh the crap you see on CNN responses - dicus etc. They repeat the same thing over and over much like the education of this place.

They divide (always have, since very old days by the way) Divide in half. Divide again by state then divide again in half. Divide by county then divide in half again. Divide by city and then divide in half again. Regular people don't like this kind of thing. Thats whats "trying" to be voiced here.

Take obama he went to war. People, what they do with division is no fucking accident. See no change. YOU DO, THEY DON'T.

House divided against itself, united, stuff like that is Greek bullshit mirroring. So take a look at yourself. I won't I'm not fooled.

SEE IF YOU CAN BEAT THE BIG RIP-OFF WHEN YOU KNOW IT IS GOING TO GO TO BULLSHIT DIVISION. see go cast your little votie with your limp dickie see what happens. What pat wrote about that black guy its what he feared they do things like that all the time.

When you finally understand that all the Plato-s do all of this division bullshit on purpose. Then you understand.

Ole plato in greece proper understands and he tearing the fucking place down. Go look and see. See greekie no eatie someones in BIG DAMN TROUBLE.

So this is where we are. So as you can see the division once again not of people but of men (yea the bible says they are but men)

So the deal here is. They can divide all they want. However if it comes apart for the everyday plato. The expert dividers better start running for cover. They know that.

I'll say one thing for OCCUPY THEY ARE ABSOULUTLY GOING AFTER THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN ALL OF THIS. Now thats a bunch of people that care about this place. No sarcasim in that at all.

Complicated its not. To the people that are divided by them. Well its really complicated and confusing. Then ask yourself who presents them? Well the interest sucking, started and owned by usuors. News, finanical news and general programming. True its a couple of levels up from the scumy dividers. The usuors are. Its kind of fun watching the scumy dividers dancing for copper coins. Playing there washboards. Also just general overall doin for master because well they owe and are owned also thru credit.

That's the really good part of all of this entertainment wise. The leaders so slick in division (by the way historically, division - the mathematics of was invented in Greece. Some see it as simple and handy. Really it is very insidious to it's core) and their own brand of swindel are in fact owned wholly by the usuors.

Housing is important because it has been established as the 'basis' of our economy for some years. The construction industries, the materials importers(rain forests, the laborers not getting paid, the landscaper ('entrepreneurs'), the real estate jobs for people who think getting dirty is beneath them, the advertising money (full page ads of house pictures), the roadbuilders, the municipalities being created out of bare land, the congressional redistricting, the police hired to patrol the school zones and home security companies to protect empty houses all day long.....etc.
Whether left, right or (ha) middle, most people see that housing is a picture of what America stands for (consumption).
This 'economy' is based on some pretty inane philosophy, and as such, it doesn't actually have any connection to reality (Malthusian physical needs). The result can only be an explosion of grand proportion, and everyone likes to watch stuff get blown up, regardless of how horrible the consequences (especially if it's 'someone else').
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

I can see one tiny, teeny sliver of wisdom in Larry's post. I think that the rent/own issue is compelling without the strong political statements. I wonder if there would be a way of reaching a more politically conservative audience if the politics were more subtle. I have one right-wing, wing nut friend who is very well, irrational. I think she would miss the wisdom of the realestate posts because she would take one look at the political posts and leave.

She won't even watch CNN because she finds it to be too liberal. Ditto for the NY Times. It is like going into a cult to try to lead someone back to sanity. If you shock them right out of the gate, I worry that you can't reach them. You have to bring them back gently.

I wonder if the posts were more gentle, might it reach more people who need reaching. THat said, I find it hard to be as gentle as is palatable to people. That may be more of my issue than the site's issue. I pretty much agree with all of the politics that Patrick posts about lobbyists, wealth, taxes and home values.

The whole Doom thing had me worried. Glad to see the context for that comment.