patrick.net

yeah, and they're latte sipping hyundai driving elitists with nothing better to do... Thats willful ignorance from you at this point, nothing more.

Bet you didn't know there was This is statement put out by the movement:

"As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive."

kentm says

yeah, and they're latte sipping hyundai driving elitists with nothing better to do... Thats willful ignorance from you at this point, nothing more.

Bet you didn't know there was This is statement put out by the movement:

You mean by the Liberal Leftist media co-Opting the opportunity to ram Obama's shitty do nothing Jobs bill.

Pahleeeze!

I challenge you to find me a video clip of one single patchouli smelling neo hippy, articulating his stance as you've outlined above. Until then I'm standing firm on my assessment.

kentm says

Bet you didn't know there was This is statement put out by the movement:

Can't say that I knew there was an official movement statement. I read the statement, and my point is still valid. The list of grievances is very long, there no way in hell anyone is going to find a solution for any of them. If the movement concentrated on one of the grievances they would have a far better chance of pressuring the government to take action. Nothing is going to change, they were being written off as lazy hippies by everyone I talk to. They want something for nothing and do not want to pay for it is the general consensus I'm hearing.

The "They" statement in each of there grievances points to a completely different group of corporations. "They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives..." points to the big drug companies and "They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil." points at the oil companies. Neither one has the slightest influence on the others business. The protesters are coming across as a bunch of whiny complainers that are blaming the everyone else for there problems.

My statement stands. It's just noise. Unify your message and then perhaps something will change.

TechGromit says

Unify your message and then perhaps something will change.

Is the OC Wall Street being subverted by this group? Obviously someone spent some money for this spiffy web site...

http://www.walkforfarmanimals.org/

One never knows, do one...

Do we REALLY need to raise money to save farm animals when poverty is so rampant in this country? These are the kind of people at the Occupy Wall Street protests - same fruitcakes, different salad.

Anyone else fill with pride when reading the above statement? I replaced "They" with my name and pretended they were addressing me personally. It brought a tear to my eye. Me and my fellow gentlemen of stature and merit have accomplished so much!

"A lot of attention has been given to the wall street protests recently and all I can say it's just a bunch of noise."

You know, that was my first thought, when it all started. But then 500 people arrested in one day for absolutely no reason. Well, that means some are really scared. They do not consider it "just a bunch of noise".

Tech Gromit, 70 percent of New Yorkers sympathize with the protests, the movement has spread to over 1000 cities, and cohesive statements stating specific grievances are being released continuously. You're talking to the wrong people.

And no, after reading that statement over I don't think your points are valid and i'm actually a little surprised to hear you say that and imagine you beleive it, unless you've somehow managed to missed the previous ten years of US history.

Or do you think it's right that people with money can buy policy and influence laws to avoid prosecution of crimes openly committed?

"At least the protests in Egypt had a common purpose, they wanted Mubarak and his allies out of office."

I'm in no way an expert in these matters, but here is a quote from Wikipedia:

"Grievances of Egyptian protesters were focused on legal and political issues including police brutality, state of emergency laws, lack of free elections and freedom of speech, uncontrollable corruption, and economic issues including high unemployment, food price inflation, and low minimum wages. The primary demands from protest organizers were the end of the Hosni Mubarak regime and the end of emergency law; freedom, justice, a responsive non-military government, and a say in the management of Egypt's resources. Strikes by labour unions added to the pressure on government officials."

It sounds to me like the protesters in Egypt were frustrated with a number of critical issues that were not being addressed by the ruling party, which to me feels awfully similar to what is transpiring in the OWS movements around the world.

I'm assuming the protest in Egypt also started out small, but eventually gained momentum and focus. Perhaps OWS will move in that direction as well.

"The protesters are coming across as a bunch of whiny complainers that are blaming the everyone else for there problems."

That's not really how I perceive them. It seems to me like they're frustrated and angry with a number of issues, and they want the government and the rest of the nation to know that they're aware of the existence of these problems. What they want is to have someone or some entity to acknowledge the issues and to take actions to remedy them, because if the trend continues towards more corporate empowerment, it'll be deleterious to our personal well-being. That is to say, our rights would be eroded further to the extent that we'll no longer have any voice at all in the way we're governed. At this point, our health, prosperity, and happiness would be in jeopardy.

This is a movement that addresses legitimate concerns, and it saddens me that your words cheapen the protesters' resolve to make this nation a better place for all of us (the 99%) and our future generations.

kentm says

Or do you think it's right that people with money can buy policy and influence laws to avoid prosecution of crimes openly committed?

Not at all, I never said I didn't sympathize with them, but to complain about 20 different issues isn't the right way to go about changing things. There is no way in hell all of there demands are going to be met, far batter to focus on one goal at a time than after you achieve that goal, work on the next one.

redsquid says

I'm assuming the protest in Egypt also started out small, but eventually gained momentum and focus. Perhaps OWS will move in that direction as well.

This is pretty much my point, weather it's a unified goal or focus to the same, nothing will be accomplished until they can boil all the demands into one goal.

kentm says

Tech Gromit, 70 percent of New Yorkers sympathize with the protests, the movement has spread to over 1000 cities, and cohesive statements stating specific grievances are being released continuously. You're talking to the wrong people.

This was poll was conducted by the Washington Times:

Will the Occupy Wall Street protesters influence any government or economical change?

Yes 3%
No 91%

Poll: Do you think the "Occupy Wall Street" protests are effective?

Yes 7%
No 88%

While the polls draw no conclusions why people don't think the protesters are effective and will not influence government, I wager if they did poll people why the most common answer would be, "No Common Goal".

TechGromit says

Will the Occupy Wall Street protesters influence any government or economical change?

Yes 3%
No 91%

Poll: Do you think the "Occupy Wall Street" protests are effective?

Yes 7%
No 88%

TechGromit says

There is no way in hell all of there demands are going to be met

Besides lack of common focus, there is or was no up front common demand, or expected outcome.
They are the perfect political puppet weapon.

Any Asshole can harness their power, just by claiming "My People have spoken!", then hijack them by injecting his agenda.
and who could deny it. There wasn't a common voice to start with, and there never will be.
Regardless intention or result, who ever becomes that "Spokesperson" will own the operation from then on.

There's even now an official OWS donation account set up. I'd love to see exactly how that money gets spread out, if it even does. Or how it is used to benefit all protestors beyond the Emerald Green pavilion tent, and Weber Gas grill in the general vacinity of the dude that has the wardship of the OWS trust.

I really think 90% of all of the worlds protests is just part of the internet flashmob craze. This is a global flashmob, for most of the participants. If I didn't have a job and family. I'd be down there too, haven't bathed in weeks, front and center with my Git-tar playing purdy music for the hula girls.

I think my other post dissappeared?

First of all, using a right leaning Washington Times poll is obviously going to be against OWS. So we can throw those numbers out the window.

Second, the government has been a crap shoot for 10+ years and you're already complaining about OWS affectiveness? How long has OWS been going on? A couple of months? Give this some time and be grateful it even started.

Very few public protest movements have a single goal or cohesive vision and leadership. Does the Temperance Movement count? They were single-issue and highly successful. However even there you had competing groups and visions, that were I think a bit suprised by what they actually ended up with for legislation.

Sorry Charlie, we plan to be around for a while!

Feed your head, read!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/why-occupy-wall-street-is-bigger-than-left-vs-right-20111017

TechGromit says

This was poll was conducted by the Washington Times:

Will the Occupy Wall Street protesters influence any government or economical change?

Yes 3%
No 91%

Poll: Do you think the "Occupy Wall Street" protests are effective?

Yes 7%
No 88%

Don't ever take the Washington Times seriously, it's basically a tabloid that makes shit up.

However, I would posit that the same was set about Teabaggers back in the day when they were just known as a bunch of racist rednecks who complained about government healthcare and taxes without a coherent platform even though some of them are on government healthcare and almost half don't pay federal income tax. And the Teabaggers haven't gone worldwide like Occupy Wall Street has.

It's still hilarious to me that Teabaggers types denigrate Occupy Wall Street. Many of the same goals, you people, many of the same goals. The banksters fucked us, and anyone who shouts it should be worthy of praise.

If Occupy Wall Street is really no big deal, then why is Rush Limbaugh so scared of it?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/why-rush-limbaugh-is-freaking-out-about-occupy-wall-street-20111018

corntrollio says

It's still hilarious to me that Teabaggers types denigrate Occupy Wall Street. Many of the same goals, you people, many of the same goals. The banksters fucked us, and anyone who shouts it should be worthy of praise.

Sure, same goals...

kentm says

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.

There are far too many left wing nutjobs in this protest to draw normal people into the fold - similar to the right wing nutjobs in the tea party that keep it on the opposite fringe. Have we not learned that fringe politics gets us nowhere - but the fringe?

If they were pointless, there wouldn't be arrests. Massive arrests happen only when someone really high up is uncomfortable.