patrick.net

Bap33 says

it was way out there, like, where stuff orbits.....

I think what you are talking about would require a lot of magic. If the earth was, for billions of years, encased in an ice "shell" --if I am understanding you properly-- a number of questions arise in my mind.

1. Is the collective mass of water on the earth significant enough to affect the rotation? (I am not even sure enough about the physics to know if the original postulation "works")

2. With that high of an "orbit" the ice would be exposed to solar winds and the vacuum of space. Comets "die" i.e. loose their ice usually after less than 2000 passes at the Sun. A large comet may last 10k passes. With the ice "shell" the Earth would be effectively a large comet in sustained orbit around the Sun. Would not all the earth's water boil off "quickly"?

3. Covered in a sublimating sheet of ice the moon and stars would probably not be visible.

4. I think a sheet of ice reflecting the suns rays, would not cause a "lush" environment but an ice age environment. Even our ground bases ice caps cause enough heat to be reflected back into space for the earth to be "cooled" a little bit.

5. And of course the magic required to push all this fresh water down to earth.

I am not a physicist or environmental scientist, but I can only imagine that there are probably dozens of catastrophes that would result from the earth being encased in an ice shell.

Bap33 says

This is not MY theory, and is not a CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN theory,

I did a quick google search, but nothing came up. Could you post a link to whose "theory" this is?

corntrollio says

I did a quick google search, but nothing came up. Could you post a link to whose "theory" this is?

The people who take the bible literally as the word of God sometimes have to work overtime to come up with a logical explanation of how it all could be true. Baps explanation above is a pretty spectacular example of this. Maybe it's what he goes with when he's in the mood to take the bible literally.

Silly really, because it wouldn't help one except some of the crazy specifics, such as all of the murder condoned in the bible, even while not killing is one of the 10 commandments.

I'm not arguing against the bible per se, to each their own, but it's easier for me to respect those who don't take it literally. And for that matter, those who know that hey, maybe a few things made it in to the book that really weren't divinely inspired, but rather were inspired more by efforts to control people and their behavior.

no, marcus, not murdering is a commandment .... killing is required at times. Murder is the bad one. Killing is just. You knew that, and chose your words in an effort to be a PITA ... but, no biggie. Silly, really.

The theroy is Hal Lindsey, of "Late Great Planet Earth" fame. Pretty cool stuff, but it really is just more "God of the gaps" (Neil D Tyson's phrase).

marcus says

maybe a few things made it in to the book that really weren't divinely inspired, but rather were inspired more by efforts to control people and their behavior.

sir, you do realize how many different writers -- and how far they were seperated in distance and time -- took part in creating the Old Test?? The New Test is a different animal all together, but the Old Test is pretty dang far reaching. That whole "controlling people" is not very far off the mark though .. so you get half-credit.

leo, good questions. I have no idea about most of that stuff, but I'll toss out some guesses: Maybe the ice was clearer than a prisym? Maybe the convex shape would result in a difference in the intensity? Maybe the Earth was much larger in diameter or much smaller is diameter while it was cooling off? Maybe our eliptical orbit around the sun was not where and how it is now? Maybe the sun was hotter or colder while the universe was forming? Maybe the internal heat from the earth's core was radiating large amounts of heat that was trapped by the ice? I'm thinking that - if Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, then the climate and such would need to be perfect for human life. Maybe it was perfect for human life before the great flood and earth changes?

corn,
you are not being much fun at all. you must need a hug. I am not preaching anything here dude, just sharing some long shot ideas. Today's science will be laughed at one day, just like you laugh at the medical science of the 14th century. Quit thinking this generation's science group is anything special.

oh, and the moon could have been encased in the ice too.

and the magic that made the ice melt is called heat and then the falling water, called rain, fell to Earth due to gravity. Nobody knows why there is gravity, or why there is orbit, or why there is axis rotation. Or, why there is orbits of systems around a large center of nothingness .... There is even a THEROY that magnatisim is a result of the rotation of a liquid iron core inside of Earth ... there is not one single portion of physical evidence of whatever is inside the Earth, or what it is made of, and there sure as hell is no way to know what the surface or core of any planet or start is made of ... but. there are lots and lots of guesses.

Pretty neat stuff, in my opinion. I like NOVA.

Bap33 says

no, marcus, not murdering is a commandment .... killing is required at times. Murder is the bad one. Killing is just.

Not to wade into a religious debate, but those statements strike me as a bit self serving. Who decides if a killing is "just"? Or if it's murder? The guy who did the killing?

Bap33 says

Killing is just. You knew that, and chose your words in an effort to be a PITA

No actually I think there is some weird stuff in the bible. Most people know not to take it literally. I guess it's okay just to take the things you want to take literally, and disregard the rest (kidding).

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

Considering we're all gonna die (again) on Friday, we should have a collective hug and wish each other the best.

Let's bring this up again on Saturday, when we discover that we didn't die.

elliemae says

Considering we're all gonna die (again) on Friday, we should have a collective hug and wish each other the best.

I plan to CLEANSE myself on Thursday, to prepare.

I heard a rumor they went off the air abruptly.

So either
1) they went bankrupt
2) they want to perpetuate the "world is ending" notion and took themselves off the air as part of some larger plan.
2) they were in fact raptured [that would explain the sudden increase in missing person reports over past few days :)].

To each their own... FWIW - some of the stuff they broadcast wasn't all that bad - even if I don't agree with their theology. Certainly it was better (and more enlightening) than some of the secular junk out there today.

elliemae says

Let's bring this up again on Saturday, when we discover that we didn't die.

Good point. Besides that web page far more anti Christian than I am. I just was trying to make he point that the bible can't be taken literally.

tatupu70 says

Bap33 says

no, marcus, not murdering is a commandment .... killing is required at times. Murder is the bad one. Killing is just.

Not to wade into a religous debate, but those statements strike me as a bit self serving. Who decides if a killing is "just"? Or if it's murder? The guy who did the killing?

The same guy that picks how much is rich does it ..... or maybe the guy that picks how much of a particular "race" a person must be to qualify for the protection offered to "protected" classes of people does it .... just kidding.

Here is a simple example:
Killing a baby in the womb by inserting a vacuum into the mom and sucking out the baby is murber of the baby.

Shooting an intruder as he gets off your dead wife's body is a justified killing.

Shooting a cow to eat it is killing.
Shooting a deer to stuff it is murder.

Excellent! Now I can sell more rapture insurance.

Oh wait, that day has already passed. Damn it. Now I'm going to have to do something productive for a living. I should have been a banker.

Doesn't that guy realize that your supposed to make the end of the world a date so far in the future, that you won't be proven wrong in your lifetime? Oh, wait, he did.

He must have thought he'd be dead before being disproven.

Bap33 says

Killing a baby in the womb by inserting a vacuum into the mom and sucking out the baby is murber of the baby.

Down with baby murberers. And down with tossing abortion into a discussion about this topic. We get it, you're against it. Either that or you've created a new class of "killers," the "murberers."

Quote: Camping says God held off Saturday out of mercy: He did not want man to suffer for five months

Yeah, that merciful prick of a god that's going to kill every man, woman, child, baby, puppy, and kitten on the Earth. He's a real sweetheart.

Vicente says

I plan to CLEANSE myself on Thursday, to prepare.

Thank you for choosing that picture and not this one.

Now this is living. It's good to be king.

elliemae says

Bap33 says

Killing a baby in the womb by inserting a vacuum into the mom and sucking out the baby is murber of the baby.

Down with baby murberers. And down with tossing abortion into a discussion about this topic. We get it, you're against it. Either that or you've created a new class of "killers," the "murberers."

Eschew Obfuscation

I am against all murders .... and so are most people ... and the law is too. ... well, except a few.

I'll try a few more examples sans baby murder mention:
The Americans on the 9/11 planes, and the American victims on the ground, were all murdered.
Suddam Hussain was killed.

In WW2 the Jews were murdered.
The liberation of europe saw many Jew murdering Nazi killed by Allied forces.

Bap33 says

The liberation of europe saw many Jew murdering Nazi killed by Allied forces.

OK then, how about the young Germans drafted into the war that didn't really want to be there and certainly didn't kill any Jews. Was that murder? or killing.

Or the guy who raped your wife and got off on a technicality in court. When you kill him is it murder? or killing?

"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter."

It is really a sport more than anything else.

tatupu, answer your own questions first, please, and then I'll give my opinion.

Bap33 says

Shooting an intruder as he gets off your dead wife's body is a justified killing.

So, maybe the intruder walked into your house by mistake because his was repossessed and he was looking for a place to rest his weary head.

Meanwhile, your wife gets out of bed and, it being cold outside, puts on new socks. They slip on the floor that your teenage daughter cleaned with too much floor cleaner (you know kids, she was probably on restriction and figured if she cleaned it would go a long way toward getting her phone back and resuming her pattern of going to the mall and texting the friends who are also in the food court at another table...)

So the wife slips, hits her head on the corner of the counter that is too sharp and she's asked you to fix multiple times. She's laying there, bleeding, when the intruder walks in the front door that was left unlocked when your teenage daughter snuck out and took the car (got caught because she put too much gas back in)... and he falls over her lifeless body.

Covered in blood, he's discovered laying on her dead, lifeless body that possesses no signs of life and couldn't possibly be revived (I know, redundant, repetetive and says the same thing over & over...).

Then it's discovered that he's a Nazi soldier who was forced to enlist... and he's entered a time vortex with a little door that only an unborn baby can sucked thru with a vacuum... and you're stuck with a nazi soldier who merely tried to get warm (mission accomplished, btw)

"Would that then be a sin then, Father?"

Bap33 says

Here is a simple example:
Killing a baby in the womb by inserting a vacuum into the mom and sucking out the baby is murber of the baby.

No.

Shooting an intruder as he gets off your dead wife's body is a justified killing.

No.

Shooting a cow to eat it is killing.

Yes.

Shooting a deer to stuff it is murder.

No.

Let me explain:

As we know the bible has been transliterated --the 10 commandments at least-- from the Hebrew. These days it is quite easy to check on the Hebrew of the 10 commandments and see what was original intended.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Torah/Ten_Cmds/Sixth_Cmd/sixth_cmd.html

The Jewish sages note that the word retsach applies only to illegal killing (e.g., premeditated murder or manslaughter) - and is never used in the administration of justice or for killing in war. Hence the KJV translation as "thou shalt not kill" is too broad.

So, the translation of the 10 commandments should have said "thou shalt not illegally kill".

If the intruder was to throw up their hands and give up, it would be illegal to kill them, and you could possibly spend time in jail and you would be in violation of the 10 commandments.

It is legal to abort a fetus, stuff a deer, and eat a cow so all are OK by the 10 commandments.

Buy, once can cherry-pick anyway they wish.

lol ... just because some curupt deviant lawyer was able to get some curupt deviant judge to change the law, does not change what the Word of God commanded. Jesus did not remove the law, he completed it.

Intruders can be and are shot.

elective abortion is murder.

Still waiting for Tatupu.

@ellie, lmao.

Bap33 says

lol ... just because some curupt deviant lawyer was able to get some curupt deviant judge to change the law, does not change what the Word of God commanded.

Umm... no, but god's law says that only illegal "kills" are prohibited, who are you to question god's law? Do you think that when god said the rule only applied to illegal kills, he would not foresee our current legal system?

Bap33 says

Intruders can be and are shot.

No, it is not always legal to shoot anyone you feel is "intruding" in your home. At least when I got my California CCW that is what they taught, perhaps in other states it is perfectly legal to shoot anyone you don't want in your home. *this is not legal advice, please consult with your lawyer before shooting people in your house*

Bap33 says

elective abortion is murder.

Not according to the law, and according to god's law only illegal killing is prohibited.

Bap--

Sorry, I meant to reply earlier.

I tend to agree with other posters that the law has to be the deciding factor. Otherwise, it's a very slippery slope.

Bap33 says

elective abortion is murder

Even if it's early and just a few cells ?

Why is it that I don't know that it's a human life yet and you do ? The bible doesn't clearly address when a human becomes a human or when it gets it's soul.

If a healthy young woman decided she wanted to have a child, and her husband said no, and got a vasectomy, why wouldn't that be murder ? He consciously chose not to cause a potential life to come in to existence.

What if your political philosophy wins out, and the plutocracy gains far more ground, enslaving the population to where life is TERRIBLE a couple hundred years from now for most people. Terribly polluted. Terrible slave labor conditions. HIgh levels of misery, despair, pain and suffering. IF a woman then decided to abort her zygote out of a feeling of compassion that she didn't want to bring a child into such a terrible life, would it be murder even then ?

(ps: there are people with conditions - including genetic, family history, drug involvement. or associations with bad people and so on, that could feel this way now)

tatupu, please answer your questions.

Leo, please say what murder is. And Leo, you do realize that all the laws you want to use to define what the 10Cs say came after the 10Cs, right? Wrong order aint it?

marcus, please allow me to wait for these two others to respond, and then I will respond to your points, as they all will tie together. Thanks.

Bap33 says

tatupu, please answer your questions

I did. Did you miss is?

tatupu70 says

I tend to agree with other posters that the law has to be the deciding factor. Otherwise, it's a very slippery slope.

No, you did not answer these questions. Please do.

tatupu70 says

Bap33 says

The liberation of europe saw many Jew murdering Nazi killed by Allied forces.

OK then, how about the young Germans drafted into the war that didn't really want to be there and certainly didn't kill any Jews. Was that murder? or killing.

Or the guy who raped your wife and got off on a technicality in court. When you kill him is it murder? or killing?

You asked two questions that you wanted to have answered "Murder" or "killing". I will respond after you answer. What is your answer to your questions. Please.

I really did. Unless you don't know the law...

1. In war, killing enemy soldiers is not against the law, so I wouldn't call it murder

2. Killing someone who raped your wife is murder.

I think ya'll are totally missing the point:

what does one wear to the end of the world? If you believe in heaven & hell, you should dress for where you're going. I think that dressing in layers would be the best if you're planning on hell, because you can take off what you need to without being buck naked.

heaven - not so easy to plan for. If you buy into the heaven being up in the clouds, you should dress in lightweight clothing so that you don't fall through while staying warm 'cause it's cold at higher elevations. Might I recommend this site, which I found after an exhaustive .40 second google search:
http://coldweatherclothing.info/ECWCS/LWCWUS.html

This begs another question - what to take with you and how do you take it? Do you tie it to you (heavy furniture could weigh you down), and what about electronics? Is there internet access in heaven? We know that there's internet access in hell, because there's a bunch of porn addicts whose spouses have told them to "go to hell" there already.

So many questions, one day to get them answered. 'Cause this is the big one, and Elizabeth - I'm coming to see you!

elliemae says

what does one wear to the end of the world?

SKIN of course! If you need clothing they will issue you something appropriate to your non-corporeal form.

When the world is ending I'll be stripping down in preparation.

Vicente says

elliemae says

what does one wear to the end of the world?

SKIN of course! If you need clothing they will issue you something appropriate to your non-corporeal form.

When the world is ending I'll be stripping down in preparation.

If God wanted me to walk around naked, he'd have made my skin fit better...

tatupu70 says

I really did. Unless you don't know the law...

lmao .. oh, really? Can you read your own writing? You asked these questions of me:
tatupu70 says

Bap33 says

The liberation of europe saw many Jew murdering Nazi killed by Allied forces.

OK then, how about the young Germans drafted into the war that didn't really want to be there and certainly didn't kill any Jews. Was that murder? or killing.

Or the guy who raped your wife and got off on a technicality in court. When you kill him is it murder? or killing?

Then you responded with this:

1. In war, killing enemy soldiers is not against the law, so I wouldn't call it murder

2. Killing someone who raped your wife is murder.

You will not answer a question you posed to me, and then you even suggest I should know the answer if I know the law. The punishment for rape is death in most lands and in God's law. So, maybe #2 needs to be addressed? Also, killing an enemy out of hate or anger is not ok, just doing so out of duty or to protect others is ok, it is not supposed to be personal, in God's law. So, would you rather re-answer or change what laws you are choosing to follow?

marcus,
yes, having an elective abotortion to murder a baby is never the right choice. Using birth control is a better choice. Not doing the things that make babies is a good choice.
As for a man getting fixed; There are issues with the mistreatment on ones body, but there is no life in the seed itself, beyond the life of an individual cell. The man's seed can not reproduce life. Life begins to reproduce when seed meets egg and creats a complete new and seperate life form that reproduces. From that very instant the ONLY thing that can result is a human, if the cells are healthy and all things go as they are designed. So, we are humans from the instant an X becomes and Xx or Xy. now, you question about the delivery of the soul to the body ... in my most humble opinion, that comes right away, but that'a jusr an opinion.

Bap33 says

The punishment for rape is death in most lands and in God's law.

Ah, I see so you are speaking of god's law and not mans law. Well you better sharpen your axe because according to god's law you are required to do a lot of killing:
You find anyone ignoring the judgment of your local priest (or whomever you find to be the authority speaking for the LORD -- maybe you perhaps)? Off with their head! (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Any wiccans in your town? You best get to the killing. (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27)

You might need more than just your axe to take out all of those homosexuals during gay pride week. (Leviticus 20:13)

Your kids every hit you, or you know of any kids that hit their parents. Well god wants you to hit them back in the neck with your axe. (Exodus 21:15) Or perhaps the kids just cursed their parents -- same judgment! (Leviticus 20:9)

Know anyone that has committed adultery? Well, if so now is your chance to do right by god! They both get the AXE! (Leviticus 20:10)

Do you know the daughter of a priest, and has that daughter had sex? Woah… sorry no axe this time big guy! God wants you to burn her alive instead. No mention of punishment for the guy though, I guess god gives him a pass on this one. (Leviticus 21:9)

You know those muslims, jew, hindus, etc. that you tried to convert? Did they refuse to convert? Well… now god wants’ you to give them the axe. That’s right you need to kill all of those that don’t believe in your god: men, women and/or children. (2 Chronicles 15:13) (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

You are making the rounds and checking that all women are vergins on their wedding night, right? Well, you had better kill them if they fail the test! (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

You ever overhear someone blaspheme god? It is quite common, as the bodies in your wake should be. (Leviticus 24:16)

You think that TV preacher might not be on the up and up? Well, you best follow god's law and hunt him down and kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5)

Your neighbor mowing the lawn on the Sabbath? Good thing the mower is loud, because he will not be able to hear you approach from behind, and drop you axe on his/her head. (Exodus 31:15)

According to god’s law it is not a option for you to kill these people, it is a required commandment by god that you perform these killings.

Hmmm... I did not see rape on that list, I may have missed something, but you could kill him under the adultery law because your wife is married, but then again you would need to kill her as well. I suppose he would have been following god's law if he killed your adulterous wife first.

However, if it was your unmarried daughter that was raped it is not within god's law for you to kill him, but you must allow him to marry your daughter. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

Bap33 says

...having an elective [abortion] to murder a baby is never the right choice.

I am curious as to where in god's law (i.e. the bible) is abortion prohibited? I can find instances where god directly kills children, and orders his followers to kill children, but no reference where the killing of children is prohibited.

Oh, and by the way, I implore you don't follow god's law and kill all the people that god commands you to kill. Please cheery pick around those laws, and only select the laws where you are not compelled to kill.

Bap33 says

Life begins to reproduce when seed meets egg and creats a complete new and seperate life form that reproduces. From that very instant the ONLY thing that can result is a human, if the cells are healthy and all things go as they are designed. So, we are humans from the instant an X becomes and Xx or Xy. now, you question about the delivery of the soul to the body ... in my most humble opinion, that comes right away, but that'a jusr an opinion.

OK, perhaps you would answer a question that I never seem to get an answer to.

If you were in a burning hospital, and on your right was a crying baby, and at you left was a tray of 100 test tubes with fertilized eggs waiting for implant into there human mothers. You only have time to grab one. What do you do? Save the one human, or the 100 humans?

Bap33 says

You will not answer a question you posed to me, and then you even suggest I should know the answer if I know the law. The punishment for rape is death in most lands and in God's law. So, maybe #2 needs to be addressed? Also, killing an enemy out of hate or anger is not ok, just doing so out of duty or to protect others is ok, it is not supposed to be personal, in God's law. So, would you rather re-answer or change what laws you are choosing to follow?

I did answer it. Several times. I thought it was understood that since we all live in the US, I would be refering to US law.

I'm not sure which countries penalize rape with death, but it definitely isn't most civilivized countries.

And no-I don't need to reconsider. I'm pretty happy with US laws. Sometimes I need to do work on Sundays. (I just saw Leo's list. I won't list anything more--he's got it covered)

Leo, I'd save the living baby first.
I never, ever, ever, suggested that it was possible to follow God's Law, as I firmly believe MAN can't do it. Never has, and never will. But, you keep talking about "legal killing" in the context of the 10Cs, and now you see how that makes no sense .. right?

tatupu, America has had many rapists put to death. You knew that. And the entire Arab nation has rape carry a MANDATORY death sentance. Is the Arab nation uncivilized?

If the Law of the Land is no gays married and no smoing dope, where is all of the support for changes to those laws coming from?