patrick.net

I did this in 1992. California sucked then:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=34F

so I went off to Japan.

I had studied Japanese in college for 3 years so I was relatively prepared, but I had it easy since a college bud had gone to Tokyo a year ahead of me and helped me greatly get set-up once I hit the ground there.

Kinda jumped from the frying pan into the fire since I had zero idea how screwed up Japan had become from their own late 1980s bubble.

Australia or Canada might work, but it's tough for somebody out of college to just go off away from all support and family and start a new life somewhere else.

China apparently has a great need for teachers (much like Japan did in the 1980s and early 1990s) so that might work, but Chinese wages are pretty low -- $1000 a month. Not so good if you ever plan on coming back to the US with any savings, though better than a McJob here in the US.

This is a joke question, right? It's so hard for me to know so often anymore... Let me rephrase this question a bit to help me understand it...

Why don't those with no money and no savings undertake an expensive trip to unknown locations that require time and money to become integrated into?... Why don't those who've invested their entire lives in places where they have support structures and families simply drop them and leave for places that may or may not be any better and where they know no one?... Why don't those who we expect to be moral and honest simply drop their obligations and skip happily out?...

Your question confuses me.

China does have a huge demand for teachers. Now you won't get rich off of it but it cheap living for a bit. Then again they decided to create their own social security...the tax is 11% on employees (not that high) but 37% on employers!! supposedly it is only in Beijing so far.

I don't think it is a joke question as during the great depression some Americans flocked to Shanghai.

Going overseas won't eliminate debt though. The US government has signed tax agreements with most of the planet (except north Korea, Somalia, cuba and iran)

I really wouldn't recommend moving overseas with the idea that debts will go away. Student loan debt is exempt from bankruptcy. Even if it wasn't you'd have to plead in front of a judge due to the reforms in 2005.

Here's a interesting piece about it
http://debtprison.net/wordpress/247/will-debt-follow-you-abroad/

"Can a bad credit report follow you to a new country?
The short answer is no. The long answer is… if you allow it to. Some credit reporting agencies (Equifax – Transunion) may have offices in other countries. For example, Headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, Equifax Inc. employs approximately 6,900 people in 14 countries through North America, Latin America and Europe. If applying for credit in a foreign country (with a U.S. based CRA) your U.S. credit report may be pulled by utilizing your SSN, if you use your SSN to acquire credit in a new country.
In several scenarios, people have found that the United States TransUnion and the Canada TransUnion share the same data in their systems. In result, there may be a possibility of a Canadian financial institution pulling your U.S credit history. This could be good for people with positive credit and bad for those with not so good credit. Equifax may do the same and share their data between countries. Sources have found that Experian has no effect in foreign credit because it only conducts reports on U.S residents."

I used to do collections. Debt levels dictate action. Hundreds of dollars I'd say can be wiped out. Thousands has action. Ten thousand or more with some assets meant it would go to court. Rare but it would happen. Summons would be issued and if you don't show then it becomes a warrant for an arrest. Not all debt is the same. Child support and alimony have a much higher importance than someones best buy card etc.

Your question reminds me of the "lost boys" of Colorado City, Arizona. These are young men who are cast out of their community because they pose a risk to the old farts who marry multiple young women.

Simply stated, the girls won't pay as much attention to a 50 year old, overweight nasty asshole with multiple wives if there's a good looking guy who likes them and is much closer to their age.

So these boys are cast out, literally thrown out of the community. You can drive down the lonely road between Hurricane Utah and Fredonia Arizona (the midst of nowhere) and see young men walking away with nothing to their names. They're forced to leave everyone and everything that they know and are left with no support system.

I dare say that this is why more youths don't leave the country - it's frightening and lonely. With no guarantee of a good life ahead, it's safer to remain at home.

http://www.salon.com/2006/07/06/lost_boys_4/
Sure, this is an old story, but the problem remains the same. Warren Jeffs (the mentally ill leader of the polygamous community) continues to rule.

I think it also depends as what is really being "lonely" these days. I just found a copy of Bowling Alone the other day.
http://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046
Group activities today can be a bit limited especially if it is not within a city.

Technology can bridge some of the gap. With sports you can see any game nearly anywhere on the planet. Flipping channels in Shanghai I caught the NBA playoffs.

This commercial captures a bit of that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2JgrC2iK50

Reminds me there was a time when people would actually develop photos. Now there's so much sharing online that Olan Millis doesn't even publically trade anymore..

There's fair amounts of products that expats can find. It isn't that hard to find major brands although prices vary dramatically. A $10 box of maxwell house coffee might be three times the price in asia...then again a beer might be $1.

Well aren't they better off Ellie, or should they grow and keep perpetuating that craziness?

The GOP says

Well aren't they better off Ellie, or should they grow and keep perpetuating that craziness?

Oh, I don't know... the thing isn't whether or not they're better off in the long run - my point is that they're "lost," homeless and have never lived elsewhere so they don't know society's rules. It's terrifying.

p=1126067#content">HousingWatcher says

Why don't all the unemployed youth, who are saddled with huge student loan debts they have zero chance of re-paying and no job opposrtunities, just leave the country? ... Don't pay back the student loans. Get free healthcare.

http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/

Why just youth?

Let's get old people to leave the country, and then we can assign their Medicare benefits to someone else. If we can get old people to leave in droves, that would enable someone else to live in their rent controlled apartments and reduced property taxes. That doesn't even take into account the way that profits throughout the country would increase without those senior discounts...

I think I'm on to something.

When you get down to brass tacks, the idea of packing up and moving into the unknown is part of our American Heritage. From the pilgrims right on through to the westward expansion, we've always belived in the idea of taking risks in the name of being self made. It's not for everyone, but it certainly has been tried by many over the years.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says

show up with $5000 worth of the local cash, hire a militia, arm them and take the fuck over and assemble a harem and crown yourself king.

Actually I met an odd guy in southern china from Oregon..was pretty sure he was some type of dealer. Never explained what he did for work and had some friends around him that said nothing...it was kinda odd

I did this myself after my first job. I wound up going to Baja Sur Mexico after living in an idyllic island in Massachusetts which I hated to leave. I had an interesting job and ran something down there which was pretty cool.
Times were also not so great then either and I recall I got resumes from phd guys from time to time looking for work also.
If you aren't mobile, you may never find work. Want proof? ASK A MEXICAN.

Ahem!

As one of the affected, who meets the criteria, (Young man/lost Job) I'll gladly tell you why I am not going to leave this country:

ITS MY F#@&ING COUNTRY!

'nuff said. . .

They should go to Asia instead, since that's where they are more likely to find jobs. They should take their Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, or Hyundai with then as well.

Unless you have very specialized skills, the chances of being able to immigrate elsewhere are low esp in other Western nations. You can't just up and leave. You have apply for residency by either finding a job that can't be filled by locals (or in the case of Europe anyone from the EU) or spending hundreds of thousands investing in the country or in a business.

BobbyS says

Unless you have very specialized skills, the chances of being able to immigrate elsewhere are low esp in other Western nations. You can't just up and leave. You have apply for residency by either finding a job that can't be filled by locals (or in the case of Europe anyone from the EU) or spending hundreds of thousands investing in the country or in a business.

Probably true, but in most (maybe all) EU countries can't an American claim citizenship there under certain rules? I know I could easily get it since I can find my relatives there.

Having said that, I can't imagine why I'd want to go there except maybe to visit or retire.

zzyzzx:
You appear to be a run-of-the-mill house cat, none of your privileged Persian blood running thru you where you sit on a pillow and are treated like royalty.

You could go back to your roots, catch some mice and otherwise do some damage to some furniture. But what type of job would you do that would bring in $$$? Or would you lay around all day, then go catting around all night and hope for the best?

This doesn't even take into account that you have a quarantine period if you're traveling, unless you catch a ride on a ship somewhere. Ya gotta plan these things.

BobbyS says

Unless you have very specialized skills, the chances of being able to immigrate elsewhere are low esp in other Western nations. You can't just up and leave. You have apply for residency by either finding a job that can't be filled by locals (or in the case of Europe anyone from the EU) or spending hundreds of thousands investing in the country or in a business.

I think another way of doing it is by applying at an American company there. When I used to work at Wells Fargo they encouraged people to apply for Wells Fargo jobs in India.

elliemae says

You appear to be a run-of-the-mill house cat, none of your privileged Persian blood running thru you where you sit on a pillow and are treated like royalty.

You could go back to your roots, catch some mice and otherwise do some damage to some furniture. But what type of job would you do that would bring in $$$? Or would you lay around all day, then go catting around all night and hope for the best?

I could possibly work on the family farm until I found a real job. Presumably they need at least seasonal help and not having local language skills doesn't seem to be a barrier to Mexican here, so me not speaking the local language probably won't matter either (they don't speak English).

I tried this when I graduated from college; I lived in the U.K. for almost two years before giving up and moving back home. I was very fortunate that I was able to ride the late 90s tech boom almost immediately afterwards, otherwise I'd still be living in my parent's basement.

Its my experience that compared to the United States, most European and East Asian countries are extremely culturally and ethnically monolithic. You won't necessarily be treated badly but you most definitely will always be on the outside of society and people won't want to invest in including you in their social network. Social networks are really important in building a career.

Some places are easier than others. For ESL supposedly the market is about 30k openings at any given time. A four year degree is generally a given.

Residency can even be a a requirement for local jobs in the USA though. I know a city that allows someone to let it go for about a year but after that they expect you live there. Now if there's apartments that are decent that's OK but if there aren't that limits the people that can work there. They debate the policy all the time.

Europe standards are quite high..canada is up there as well although i heard Quebec signed a deal with France (provinces have more power than states)

Also in europe EU internal agreements are odd. There's been a historical record of some discrimination (look up the Turks that worked in Germany after ww 2).

I know that there are rules, but I'd think if you could just to to someplace in Asia with a really low unemployment rate, it should be possible.

PersainCAT says

what English speaking western country currently has an abundance of jobs?

None. Duh. They would have to move to a non-English speaking country. Or just move to Alabama and and be a farmhand.

Q. Why Don't Unemployed Youth Leave the Country?

A. Because it's easier to just keep living in your parents basement.

PersainCAT says

English speaking western country currently has an abundance of jobs?

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=360

Wait - there's a Persian Cat in the mix? They're loud (always talking), sit around superior on fancy pillows and eat out of glass bowls.

HousingWatcher says

somepleace

Freudian slip. Someplace --> some peace

HousingWatcher says

Go to somepleace like Australia, Canada, or Switzerland? Don't pay back the student loans.

Aside from the fact that this means probably never seeing family again, not going to your sister's wedding, and saying good bye to everyone you know...

Do you really think that in this day of international banking that you can escape your student loans by skipping country? You'd have to assume a life completely unconnected with your social security number, and that means also completely unconnected to you college degree. In which case, why did you even bother wasting 4+ years in college?

Plus, moving to another country w/o a job already lined up there would be very difficult in the least. In some countries you wouldn't be able to get permanent residency or citizenship. And even then, you'd still have to deal with the same scumbag transnational corporations that ruined your last country's government.

Dan8267 says

not going to your sister's wedding

heh, going to my sister's wedding in my first expat year was kinda difficult, wiping out my savings.

But, man, I NEEDED to get back to LA after 6+ straight months in Tokyo. I loved Tokyo, but In n Out, Taco Bell, real Mt Dew -- there's just some things a man's gotta have.

You'd have to assume a life completely unconnected with your social security number

Nobody in Japan ever knew it. Maybe things change now.

you'd still have to deal with the same scumbag transnational corporations that ruined your last country's government.

Big business didn't destroy this country, we did that ourselves, 1994-2004, election by election.

Bellingham Bill says

You'd have to assume a life completely unconnected with your social security number

Nobody in Japan ever knew it. Maybe things change now.

Yeah, I'm thinking more of creditors. If you wanted to take out a mortgage in Japan, could you do that without revealing any information that would lead to your social security number? Wouldn't you have to provide proof of identity like a passport?

I suppose there may be illegal ways of starting a new identity such as forging papers and documents, but even that must be getting harder every day. I don't know of any legal way to start a new identity in another country that would have no connection to your old identity in the United States. However, I would be interested in any stories from people who did this.

this video is pre-youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOwRoAmw-JU

"my credit history? wiped -- clean slate"

but this was in the 1990s, things are no doubt more integrated now.

Japanese banks don't deal with foreigners that much so I doubt they care about previous credit history.

It takes 10+ years in-country for foreigners to become credit-worthy anyway.

My youngest brother is doing this next year. He is moving to Spain after last years exchange visit. He originally was going for a degree in music since he is magnificent at playing the spanish classical guitar. However, that degree changed to a spanish language degree.

I think he is going to run from his college debt but he won't tell me. I guess I will find out how he does at the end of next year. At least his skills of playing spanish classical guitar would allow him to pretend to be spanish and work some tourist joints. I don't know, we will see.

HousingWatcher says

Go to someplace like Australia, Canada, or Switzerland? Don't pay back the student loans. Get free healthcare. And maybe even a decent paying job.

LOL. You honestly think it that easy to emigrate to another country? I know the emigration requirements to move to Australia are quite strict. You have to have a skill that the countries needs. It's not like visiting the country and just staying, in order to work you need a work visa. Just because your an American and not some Asian being smuggled into the country looking for work means they are going to roll out the red carpet for you. While is possible, it's not exactly easy as booking a flight to a destination to anywhere and get a job.

Now if you have Lots of MONEY, and your looking to invest it's pretty easy, but if you had money you wouldn't be looking to leave in the first place most likely.

Truthplease says

He is moving to Spain after last years exchange visit. He originally was going for a degree in music since he is magnificent at playing the spanish classical guitar. However, that degree changed to a spanish language degree.

He's moving to a country with 20% unemployment? Brilliant!!!

PersainCAT says

Even if they have the "right" education besides teaching English in Asia what English speaking western country currently has an abundance of jobs? That is if u have less than 5 years experience and anything from no college to a masters degree is there any English speaking country that has an abundance of jobs?

I'm personally looked into it (degrees in physics) just to see what was out there and the prospects of jobs in the 50k+ a year range are MUCH more available in the USA than other countries.

But you also should understand that the dollar in various countries can get quite a bit more..it's the opposite of western europe. Back in '99 I met a guy that took his wife out and ten members of her family to dinner (this is in the Philippines). Three course means for ten of them cost $9! I thought it was a joke until I went to China in '08 and a platter of food is about $1.

It isn't so much about an abundance of jobs. Make not mistake it is a discouraging market out there. But there are jobs.

The issues I see when people talk about employment is they want to satisfy several things as a solution that frankly contradict each other. (Not so much this board but on tv)

1) They want some business that employs large numbers of people. (to help get unemployment down and the thought that employing large numbers means job security)

2) They want some business that doesn't require that much training/requirements. That way laid off people can qualify

3) They want some business that has good pay and bennies (obviously)

The problem is if a business employs large amounts of people the security is not assured because you can be replaced. If it requires a low skill set then it won't pay good pay and bennies.

I'm sure the President would love to have a speech and say this stuff but it would be too blunt and to the point.

Businesses don't want to teach people skills that have a value somewhere else. Yes, there is government compliance (OSHA, food safety etc) but that's a given. IBM for quite some time had a very strict manner and culture about the way they did things..same with AT&T. Motorola invented sigma 6.

Specialization can hurt because if a business merges or goes out of business it then can leave some workers behind because everything is different. Businesses 100 years ago trained people mostly because so much of it was manual labor. Heck it wasn't that long ago that I knew of people that were paid to watch analog meters all day long because the technology didn't exist to have it reported to a computer.

mdovell says

I'm sure the President would love to have a speech and say this stuff but it would be too blunt and to the point.

I think there is more to it than that. No politician wants to tell the voters that they can't have everything.