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Patrick, why don't you leave the Bay Area?


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2011 Dec 22, 11:52pm   37,967 views  115 comments

by Wacking Hut   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

That's probably the toughest housing market in the US to live in. At least in NYC there is modest housing in the outer boroughs, but in the Bay Area everything is expensive.

I'd agree northern California is also probably the nicest place to live in the US. But you have to start somewhere and the circumstances of most people's birth doesn't give them a big head start.

Why don't you move someplace like the Research Triangle or Austin? You could move back to the Bay Area and buy after saving money in a less expensive rental and purchase market. I agree renting is better for now in the Bay Area, but renting someplace else would be even cheaper.

You talk a lot about how the housing market is rigged, but that's partly due to price inelasticity from people not wanting to make long moves. One way to rationalize the market is to move away from high-priced areas and save up cash in low-cost areas.

#housing

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109   SparrowBell   2012 Jan 11, 10:30am  

B.A.C.A.H. says

Paperback Writer says

For much of this time, my husband and I had a combined income of $200k. That should have been enough in CA, at least in theory.

Paperback Writer says

The problem with the Bay Area was that it forced us to make a choice between the lesser of two evils. We could have more space but only if we spent a huge amount of income on housing.

Yep. B*llsh*t.

There's been lotsa places that are affordable for a household income of 200K. Even for those can't stand to live around regular folks and insist on Enclaves for Hipsters and Fortress Enclaves for Tiger Parents that genuflect to API Diety.

Maybe SFAce, a numbers guy, can chime in here and "run the numbers" to prove it.

Actually, it's probably true for Paperback Writer's situation. I don't know if after tax 200K is 130K, more like 110K-120K (assuming AMT etc) and wasn't tax higher during Clinton's period? And, 200K consistently for past 25 years?! In addition, ones' willingness to spend on vacation/food are not necessarily the same as others who are more readily to spend on house. Maybe, the satisfaction gained from having a house just doesn't measure up to the money spent for Paperback Writer.

I don't know what price range in terms of house Paperback Writer was considering buying and was in a location that would not compromise their life styles. But, I could comment on what we think since we haven't bought one yet ... everything we look, any that's decent and move-in ready is probably around 700K - 800K (half a century old house at San Carlos, I'm avoiding the prime areas but east bay is out of questions for us bcos of the commute (not so much on the length but BART is not as convenient as caltrain for me) ... and I work in SF while my husband works in Santa Clara). That will translate into a monthly payment of 4K+. We do not have kids, but if we plan to have two kids, that will be additional 3K daycare every month. To maintain reasonable life style, I think we need to have 5K (including saving, after all, one can't live paycheck by paycheck) every month after all those expense. In short, if we want to buy a house that we consider worthwhile, i.e. 700-800K, we need to make $15K after tax every month (not counting bonus as there are always unexpected spending). That will be at very least a base salary of $150K each. So, for us, an annual income of 350K would indicate 700K house as the affordability line. So, index the current 200K to earlier times against inflation, I don't know what would be the alternatives for her after all her priorities.

110   B.A.C.A.H.   2012 Jan 12, 4:06am  

SparrowBell says

any that's decent and move-in ready is probably around 700K - 800K

It depends on what you consider "decent".

We live in a neighborhood that Hipsters and techie immigrants would probably sneer at, but where a couple of years my oldest kid got accept to all the UC's she applied to except UCB and UCLA, even though she went to K-12 that did not have the "elite" API's that so many yuppies/techies worship. Several classmates of hers did go to Berkely/UCLA though, and a handful to Ivies/Stanford/Cal Tech; so I cannot blame the K-12 for holding back my kid.

It's OK to live around Hispanics and it's OK if your kids don't go to the most elite API score K-12. Just need to be open minded about the ethnicity of your neighbors, and pay very close attention to the opportunities offered by the K-12's. Just looking at the API is a cop-out.

111   freak80   2012 Jan 12, 4:26am  

PockyClipsNow says

I didnt see sunlight for 6 weeks in Austin in winter - mind cannot comprehend how that is possible but crappy weather is the norm in the world.

Try living downwind (southeast) of the Great Lakes in the winter. You won't see sunlight for 6 MONTHS ;-)

But hey, at least I'm not a debt serf like I would be in CA.

112   RedStar   2012 Jan 13, 6:05am  

I moved out from the Bay Area in late 09 and bought my home in Sacramento in 2010. I don't miss the bay at all except on those super hot summer days, but I'm close enough to the Sierra that we can escape just as easy. My mortgage is almost under 200k and I just refinanced to 3.875, so I now pay less for it than I paid for my last apartment in Santa Clara. Anything decent down there would be double the price easily

113   bg1   2012 Jan 14, 10:50pm  

PockyClipsNow says

Also the mexican food in TX is crap by CA standards. How in the hell that can that happen with a high hispanic population? Tex-Mex. its crap. They replace the good parts with chili and corn, blah. just a rant. BBQ there is top notch though so it evens out.

I have lived in Austin, ABQ and SF Bay Area. I have to say that you just weren't eating in the right places if you didn't like the Tex-Mex or Mexican. So many choices. Authentic, trendy, open all hours. Did you ever eat at Chuy's? More on the trendy side, but awesome food.

114   RentingForHalfTheCost   2012 Jan 25, 7:53am  

toothfairy says

Renting

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/apa/2815195851.html

Here is another. That makes 2. I can find at least 1 a day on craigslist with a simple search. When I was looking to rent about 2 years ago there were many that I checked out, not just one.

The problem in your thinking is that people should put in great effort when renting money, but should not shop around when renting a house. To me they should be the same effort.

115   RentingForHalfTheCost   2012 Jan 25, 7:58am  

And another 1m+ home for rent at half. Just saying...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/apa/2811580914.html

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