patrick.net

just_passing_through says

Okay, no... Jobs galore in the six figures is pure BS. Biotech pays crap compared to High tech and other industries. Always has and likely will until overhead such as the FDA gets streamlined among other things.

As a high paid developer I'm amazed at what shitty wages graphic people get. I think a good graphics person that can conceptualize innovative UI graphics, that aren't copies or cookie cutter crap. Are worth as much as any developer on their best day. Of course I've only worked with two of such people in my career.

Though Graphics people aren't long term minded. They want what ever you'll pay them now for their job performed now. They aren't interested in building companies on the ground floor, and deferring potential earnings until the company takes off. Developers are bigger risk takers in that regard.

So as a result, they are stuck at the relative low wage they we're willing to accept early on. So when the company does take off, they don't have a reward coming to them. Since it's industry standard, they are all stuck in low wages, as none of graphics guys blow up with the companies as they hit it big.

You all miss the point. The people like you guys who have some education or high tech skill or both are not the norm.
See who is lurking around the malls?
Slack jawed illiterate punks, shuffling around with expensive sneakers, baggy pants, hats on backwards, some with chains others with tattoos.
Don't forget the illegal alien anchor babies who are mostly high school dropouts or maybe have attended community college.
These guys are not going to be finding much work and they sure have no particularly useful "skill sets"(formerly called "skills").
The above mentioned are all of course Obama voters hoping to squeeze the smarter ones who have studied and worked to have some money.

Fully agree with you clambo - I just hate to hear Biotech get hyped.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/tMwhl4IrPNc

I have a former HP executive uncle who recommended my much younger cousin forgo a college degree and instead obtain training to become a welder - which he did. The kid makes plenty of money and is using it to get a license flying helicopters.

He's kind of scruffy like lots of Sierra Nevadans but keeps his pants up. So proud of him...

The $4.00 a gallon gas is actually predicted to be here by May. By the end of summer it's suppose to hit $5.00 a gallon. Both prices will hurt business and individuals BIG TIME. If we are lucky it will be enough to send Obama packing. Not that I think any of the republican candidates are the solution, just that the dust bunny under my desk would have done a better job over the last three years than Obama has.

TPB says

The Fucknuts are already talking about $4.00 gasoline by summer, for the whole week.

it's because the economy is turning around.
It's becoming obvious that they cant beat Obama on the economy so they need to manufacture a new crisis.

That's the clearest admission of any that things are turning around.

They even passed the payroll tax cut this week so it seems like the new strategy rather than holding the economy hostage they will most likely let it go and send gas prices through the roof.

Nomograph says

You REALLY need to update your skillsets.

You can't look at small upticks in the economy and immediately conclude that everything is going up from here. You'd be no different from these Realtors who have been claiming that the bottom is already here every month since 2008.

Buster says

I tried for years to encourage friends who were in dying industries to go into my line of work by simply updating their skill sets. Apparently, too much work was involved. They would rather bitch about doom and gloom and their poverty. I came to believe that there was a payoff for them. Victim thinking. I stopped trying to help them..

Good well-intended thoughts. Unfortunately, there are only so many jobs in smarter fields. What you need to look at is the market size. Most jobs still produce low end products.

Nomograph says

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/feb/18/manufacturing-jobs-find-their-way-back-to-the-us/

That's a nice feel-good article, but provides no real statistical data on how many jobs are being brought back. In fact, this is not news at all. This article could've been written at any time between 2004 and now. We never stopped on-shoring. I read articles a couple years back talking about off-shoring and on-shoring, and that on-shoring was a drop in the bucket compared to the jobs being lost. Of course, that was a couple years ago. The reason we have to on-shore is because off-shoring is never seamless, and many companies fail in the process.

Fact of the matter is, the U.S. never stopped manufacturing. Our production is down to only 21% of the world's goods. We're just not producing low end stuff anymore; we mostly produce capital goods and durable goods nowadays. But if that's the case, then why is there a huge trade deficit? The answer is Simple. We consume more than we're producing. Our standard of living is high compared to everyone else.

The reason why I'm still negative is this. The treasury department provides a report of their daily income here: http://www.fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html and there isn't a significant increase in payroll taxes from a year ago. It is statistically flat. When did the 2% payroll tax cut come into effect? December 2010? Anyways, there was a huge increase from two years ago, but negligible increase from last year.

Nomograph says

We live in an era of cutting edge design engineering, genomics-driven biotechnology, stem cells researcher, and high-tech manufacturing.

Yes, except none of those technologies generate jobs like low-tech manufacturing used to.

I was a moderate, voted for Reagan in 1984, and now all these nutjobs have driven me to the left of the center.

You can never make some people happy. Here's a look at the near past under Bush vs Obama:

Losing 750,000 jobs in Dec 2008 and 4.5M from 2005-09 under Bush/gaining 2M under Obama so far. War created in Iraq with no bid contracts back in 2003/ full troop withdrawal this last year, TARP created under Bush with no conditions/ TARP carried out under Obama but with strict payback rules, complaints about bailouts for GM and Chrysler to save both the auto (and parts of the defense) industries under Obama/ GM with $8B in profits, medical insurance premiums increasing 20-25% annually with no coverage of preexisting conditions/ a healthcare bill with state created exchanges and coverage of preexisting conditions in 2014. Railing about the national debt/cutbacks in everything from education to defense to save $800B over 10 years.

While I would agree with other posters about the sellout to Wall Street and not being happy about the lack of any substantial progress in financial regulation, Obama has done a decent job with the cr@p sandwich handed to him. He could come up with a cure for all cancers tomorrow and some people would complain he is putting the drug industry out of business.

Who do you want from the Republican side? The serial adulterer/Fannie Mae historian, the guy who wants to eliminate contraceptives and whose sugar daddy suggests women put Bayer aspirin between their legs as a form of birth control, a guy who guts companies, fires people and then sells off the remnants of the companies to the highest bidders? A guy with decent foreign policy ideas, but is in favor of letting people die in the hospital waiting room? Or a half-term "governor"?

The choice is pretty obvious this year. Until you have a better solution, and better policy than just "let's cut taxes and blow a bigger hole in the deficit" because that solves everything, you don't have much to stand on or for.

toothfairy says

it's because the economy is turning around.
It's becoming obvious that they cant beat Obama on the economy so they need to manufacture a new crisis.

That's the clearest admission of any that things are turning around.

They even passed the payroll tax cut this week so it seems like the new strategy rather than holding the economy hostage they will most likely let it go and send gas prices through the roof.

Because it's a Republican administration right? I know those Republicans are so in full control of everything, they are so well organized even the voters are in unison over who should be in charge. What color are the stars and bars in your world?

um What jobs where? I don"t see it. Me thinks the numbers are a bunch of BS.

mmmarvel says

The $4.00 a gallon gas is actually predicted to be here by May. By the end of summer it's suppose to hit $5.00 a gallon. Both prices will hurt business and individuals BIG TIME. If we are lucky it will be enough to send Obama packing. Not that I think any of the republican candidates are the solution, just that the dust bunny under my desk would have done a better job over the last three years than Obama has.

I'm not a US citizen. What exactly has he done that is so bad? He looks like he's done a pretty good job considering the situation he was dropped into and the fact that he gets blocked at every turn. And as for you rather voting for any one of the Republican candidates no matter how bad they are (and they are), well what can I say?
And you are overblowing the effect of $4 a gallon - have you seen the prices for it in other Western countries?

Bigsby says

And you are overblowing the effect of $4 a gallon - have you seen the prices for it in other Western countries?

That's not our fault the rest of the world don't stand for something, just because they take up the can at the pump, we won't stand for it, not while any hope of viable alternatives are being presented to us in over engineered green cars, with Bluetooth kegorators for a mere $50,000.00 while they tell us we should pay more in gas. Not because it's a precious resource and at this rate future generations will depend on it for the foreseeable future. At least through out this Century. But because the icecaps are melting and if you don't buy that, then it's foreign dependency. But your Japan green import is fine. It's a damn scam and an out right rigging. We have the refinery capability the capaicity and more importantly the supply, we're not the UK or France we're the freaking US of goddamn "Aye" and gas is our birth right. Henery Ford(god rest his soul) invented it.

Katy Perry says

um What jobs where? I don"t see it. Me thinks the numbers are a bunch of BS.

That's funny. So if you don't see the job created, it doesn't exist then?

Why don't you just stick with your "debt is slavery" mantra--you've kind of got a schtick going...

Bigsby says

well what can I say?

Bigsby says

I'm not a US citizen.

Bigsby says

And you are overblowing the effect of $4 a gallon - have you seen the prices for it in other Western countries?

That's simple. In the U.S. we subsidize fuel via tax breaks and whatnot. In other developed countries, they massively tax fuel consumption. Germany, for instance, adds about 40% in taxes.

The bottom line price is based on global demand (with, of course, some adjustment/manipulation by OPEC.) Countries can then subsidize that number, or they may tax it.

Bigsby says

He looks like he's done a pretty good job considering the situation he was dropped into and the fact that he gets blocked at every turn.

So if the Democrats are so useless and they can blame their failures on Republicans, then why not cut out the middleman? Vote republican, since our votes don't count if the people we elect can invoke blame to excuse ineffectiveness.

TPB says

Bigsby says

He looks like he's done a pretty good job considering the situation he was dropped into and the fact that he gets blocked at every turn.

So if the Democrats are so useless and they can blame their failures on Republicans, then why not cut out the middleman? Vote republican, since our votes don't count if the people we elect can invoke blame to excuse ineffectiveness.

William E Baughb

That makes no sense. If you want change to actually be implemented, then you could just as easily say vote Democrat. This is an issue of policies. The fact your country finds it so difficult to implement positive measures because they get blocked at every turn by recalcitrant politicos and paid lobbyists is not a sign of Obama's failure but that your system has been usurped by big business and self-interested and simple-minded politicians who don't belong anywhere near the seat of power. Obama may not have achieved the kind of measures that people initially hoped for, but he was never going to - that is the nature of the system that leadership is confined by. I mean seriously, the rest of the world looks on and wonders why the hell you have such an enormous debt and yet can't even manage to reach agreement to tax the richest at a level that simply reverts the amount back to the level it was before Bush implemented a war era tax cut for the wealthiest. A tax cut for the wealthiest during war time - completely laughable.
And some people defend this Republican intransigence. Why exactly? Ah yes, job creators (umm...), trickle down economics (shouldn't that be rush upwards economics?) etc. etc. There's too much defending of the indefensible in the US and not enough tackling of core problems and trying for cross party cooperation. Until that changes nobody will be able to make a real difference. That's been Obama's problem - he's tried to compromise with a party that no longer seems interested in cooperating for the greater good of your nation.

Yeah right Bigsby is just some objective observer from another country.
Talking all of the Liberal BS talking points that only matter to Californian Liberals.

Or maybe you are, and you're new here. Here let me give you some advice. It's hard to get people to Vote Democrat when you don't have respect for anyone that doesn't see it the way you do. Liberals in the last decade has done more to kill any notion of third party ideas in this country, while their party has grown so far from a rational center, it's a horror show of a different genre than the GOP. If I have to vote 5 more administrations of Republicans until Democrats come up with a new game plan rather than ostracizing others, and calling the people they expect to vote Democrat stupid, and Independents can get a fair go in politics. Then I'll vote GW Bush in office like Ground Hog day, for a thousand years. Now normally I wouldn't want to chose between being bitten by one of two venomous snakes, but I am going to be weary if one of the snakes tells me, hey let me bite you stupid, he just wants inject you with venom.

TPB says

That's not our fault the rest of the world don't stand for something, just because they take up the can at the pump, we won't stand for it, not while any hope of viable alternatives are being presented to us in over engineered green cars, with Bluetooth kegorators for a mere $50,000.00 while they tell us we should pay more in gas. Not because it's a precious resource and at this rate future generations will depend on it for the foreseeable future. At least through out this Century. But because the icecaps are melting and if you don't buy that, then it's foreign dependency. But your Japan green import is fine. It's a damn scam and an out right rigging. We have the refinery capability the capaicity and more importantly the supply, we're not the UK or France we're the freaking US of goddamn "Aye" and gas is our birth right. Henery Ford(god rest his soul) invented it.

You are the USA? Big f-ing deal. Such arrogance does you no favours. Gas is not your birth right. It's something that you stick in your car to go from A to B, and most certainly wasn't something invented by Henery (sic) Ford.
Getting a few more mpg is a good thing however you decide to do it. Oil may have quite a few more decades to go, but hasn't peak oil already passed? - presumably that gives a pretty strong pointer to the direction of oil prices in the future, so it's about time that strong measures were taken to move away from dependence because of the obvious long-term benefits (and that's outside of whether or not you choose to ignore the warnings of the overwhelming majority of climate scientists and instead believe the blatherings of self-interested and ill-informed politicians).

Bigsby says

Getting a few more mpg is a good thing however you decide to do it.

A 1980 GEO got better gas mileage than a Prius, or is it the Pious?

Labor participation rate is lowest since 1984. (~63%)

Automation, Cloud (XaaS), high productivity levels, flatter management structures make getting a job for younger people very hard, and unskilled people impossible.

This country is now have and have-nots. Don't think for a moment your job is safe. The global corporations want your labor cost gone. You are one Bain Capital evaluation away from being destitute. Welcome to the USA, 2012. Fear motivates your every move.

Bigsby says

It's something that you stick in your car to go from A to B, and most certainly wasn't something invented by Henery (sic) Ford.

Well if you're going to split hairs, then Alexander Graham Bell invented the Wallie Talkie.

TPB says

Or maybe you are, and you're new here. Here let me give you some advice. It's hard to get people to Vote Democrat when you don't have respect for anyone that doesn't see it the way you do. Liberals in the last decade has done more to kill any notion of third party ideas in this country, while their party has grown so far from a rational center, it's a horror show of a different genre than the GOP. If I have to vote 5 more administrations of Republicans until Democrats come up with a new game plan rather than ostracizing others, and calling the people they expect to vote Democrat stupid, and Independents can get a fair go in politics. Then I'll vote GW Bush in office like Ground Hog day, for a thousand years. Now normally I wouldn't want to chose between being bitten by one of two venomous snakes, but I am going to be weary if one of the snakes tells me, hey let me bite you stupid, he just wants inject you with venom.

I don't live in the US, I'm not a US citizen and I'm not a liberal (though that isn't actually an insult you know however much you may think it is). I have a home in Monterey.
And as an outsider, it's very clear that it is not the Democrats that have moved far from the centre, but quite the opposite - it's the Republicans who have jumped off the deep end. They are a shadow of the party they once were and judging by the sorry list of candidates in the current primaries are only getting worse.

TPB says

Bigsby says

Getting a few more mpg is a good thing however you decide to do it.

A 1980 GEO got better gas mileage than a Prius, or is it the Pious?

William E Baughb

So?

robertoaribas says

bring on $4 gas, my properties are all located near light rail and/or close in to employment centers. I ride my bicycle to work..

Yeah, and *everything* that you consume, from going out to eat, to shopping, to food, to rentals, everything, goes with it. Asking for high petrol prices is self effacing in the worst way.

Bigsby says

particularly with current interest rates

If interest rates go back to the normal 5-7% range, do people really think that they wont be underwater? Prices will fall if interest rates rise unless there is rapid inflation - not stagflation - which is what we have now, prices go up, salaries real terms stagnate or go down.

tdeloco says

Let's get back to the boom times! Give these burger flippers who earn $18k/yr a zero down zero percent ARM mortgage on a $600k home, and we're once again back in the boom times

80/10/10 is back. FHA is 3.5% up to 729k. I've seen 5/1 ARMS at 2.1%. They are attempting to re-inflate the bubble as fast as they can - but instead of sucking in strawberry pickers in Gilroy who would have been destitute anyways, they are going after people who have survived the economic holocaust and they are determined to break every last one of the middle class by saddling them with debt. I always wonder what Realtors think - where are their kids supposed to live? Why promote overspending on houses that fall apart?

Buster says

I work in biotechnology development, a profession that did not exist 30 years ago. For those of us who have 'updated our skill sets' that may be utilized in this work environment, things have never been better. There are jobs galore, all in the six figures.

Not for anyone that has school debt. I know people in their early thirties that are well qualified in biotech and they cant get over 100k easy.

Its easy to be smug, but for people under 35, life is really unpleasant right now. Skyrocketing cost of fuel, rent and food and stagnant salaries.

Oh, and just to let you all know, when you job hop to get your pay inflation adjusted, that's a clever way for a company to get rid of people with many years of service making you even more dispensable.

Things are bad right now, most people consider themselves lucky to get a contributory/matched 401k and decent health care, let alone getting enough to get ahead.

And skills? Its not about skills so much as it is about who you know. Most of the skills you need in many places were just invented, so really its about being clever and smart and using networking to get in. I love these job postings where you must have already had the job in question to qualify for it (and the job doesn't exist in any other company - not even close).

I've seen job postings asking for experience with INTERNAL tools.

I am not saying it is easy, but is very possible. I just moved here, knew nobody, and landed a job with a major biotech with my first and only interview. Now, after 9 months, was looking around. Casually put my resume in for 3 jobs, not expecting to hear back from anyone. Guess what? Each called me back. Had screening telephone interviews for 3/3. Two are now scheduling face to face interviews. Yes, it is competitive, but again, with the right skill sets, you don't need to know anybody to get a job. Interview skill sets are another that most don't seem to bother developing either. Perhaps it is my attitude. I think it is 'positive & hopeful', vs. your characterization of 'smug'. There is a huge difference and people pick up on it right away.

Oh, and as far as the poster stating that no one is making money in tech, check this article out from today's SF Chron: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/02/20/BAFU1N9T8J.DTL Personally, I am not a huge fan of Noe Valley, but apparently others feel different than me.

bubblesitter says

Aha,finally those $8.50/hr jobs are coming back and that will thrust the housing market into new highs,higher then the 2006 highs. LOL.

That and the new "lower" unemployment levels due to people counted as dropping out of the labor market.

zzyzzx says

That and the new "lower" unemployment levels due to people counted as dropping out of the labor market.

There is no data on the dropped out ones,so the bulls won't see it.

The old saying goes that if you're unemployed then the economy sucks. If you've got a job things are great. Ancedotally speaking it seems like most of the people I know who live out of state are having a harder time than those I know who live in the immediate Bay Area. I can also contrast with when I was laid off a few years ago and now. I've got a good job that pays well so I am more or less "insulated" in terms of how I feel. But it does seem that the people I do know who are either looking for or wanting to change jobs are having an easier time doing so. Then again these are all folks in the tech biz. Tech only makes up around 30%-35% of the total workforce in the BA. The entire local economy can't be entirely tied to its success.

edvard2 says

The old saying goes that if you're unemployed then the economy sucks

That's the truth and probably the real explanation for why some of us here are such downers while others are more positive.

While some like to Bark about the 1% vs the 99% mark.
What would be real interesting to see, would be a graph that showed the percentage of those making median income range, vs lower tier and higher tier income levels, from 1999 through now.

I'm quite sure, you would see a stagnate or even disappearing middle class income level. While those making $8 or around, would have the biggest growth. And those making over 100K would also see a spike compared to 2000-2007. $20-$35 an hour should much smaller than the other levels.

I remember in 1997 seeing job classified ads(this was before the internet actually was as through of search tool as it is now) in the news papers, programing jobs for 80K or more were so common. It was the biggest drive for me to learn and work early on, for intern wages for the first couple years. Coming out of a relative providing skilled trade, to peanut wages. But by time I had the skills to compete for those higher paying wages, the tech bubble collapsed. All through our 2000-2007, programming jobs paying over 65K to 75K were rare. Senior programmers weren't making no where near the 100K range. Project managers, and CTOs and CIOs maybe but not programmers.

While I feel lucky my industry is doing well, I know most other higher paying jobs, are either gone or paying a lot less than they were pre 2007. And minimum wage jobs are the greatest percentage of jobs available. We've got some of the finest Millwrights, Carpenters, Heavy Equipment operators, Teachers, Policemen, Electricians, Finance workers, Lawyers, Plant supervisors, General Managers, Regional directors ect. in the world, manning a counter at the Piggly Wiggly poised and ready to serve you better. Just making $8 bucks an hour.

"Obama you did a bang up job!" As Bush would probably say.

Perhaps another thing that would be interesting would be to speculate whether the Bay Area has basically flushed most of the middle class out of the area anyway. This has been sort of discussed before, but its pretty much a given that unless you got here decades ago, today if you're in the traditional middle class then you can't afford a home here and that is just about the most reliable gauge to whether the middle class thrives in a given area.

If that's the case then the BA is in more bubbles than one. Its also in a wage bubble. I've often said for years that those making upper middle class incomes today actually only have the spending power of the upper working/lower middle class.

dr said: The era of burger flipping and toll booth operators.
I probably wouldn't look to toll booth operator as a long term career choice:
The Golden Gate Bridge District has cleared the way for the Bay Area’s first foray into cashless tolling, beginning as soon as December.. A system of road sensors and cameras will either deduct your $6 toll from a FasTrak device, or use your license plate to send you a bill you can pay in retail stores or online.

Nomo said: Yeah, and there aren't any Frisbee plants in the Bay Area either.
Maybe not the Bay Area, but they are coming back.
A number of companies are ahead of the curve, including California-based toymaker Wham-O, which last year returned 50 percent of its Frisbee and Hula-Hoop production from China and Mexico to the U.S., said Sirkin.

Nomograph says

It's probably your negative attitude that is hurting you; employers go to great lengths to weed out negative people from the candidate pool. Pessimists are detrimental to productivity and poisonous to morale.

There are plenty of biotech jobs for those with the required skills.

Here's 300 listings for biologists, chemists, pharmacologists, and development professionals just in the San Diego area:

http://www.biospace.com/jobs/search-results/?HotbedRegionId=6&PageSize=25&PageIndex=1

Here's 400 listings in the Bay Area:

http://www.biospace.com/jobs/search-results/?HotbedRegionId=5&PageSize=25&PageIndex=1

There are PLENTY of opportunities for biotech professionals in California, provided you have the required background. The ticket is a good education from a good school; a degree from a UC, Stanford, or Caltech is the ticket, while one from Cal State Chino will put you farther back in line.

It's called being realistic and has nothing to do with not being positive. Many of those jobs you linked to are fake. Biotech companies do that to make it look like they are doing well.

Many more are bench positions. While there are lots of bench monkey positions I sure as heck wouldn't want one. Been there, done that and without having gone back to school to mix in software development with my molecular biologist skills I'd have been stuck in a dead end job with no advancement opportunity. You are literally better off NOT going to college than you are working the bench in Biotech. You'll make more money in the short run and long run with less debt.

Overall, for most, biotech sucks for a career. Anyone who says otherwise either (1) works in some capacity that is non-science related but could get paid better doing the same thing in another industry or (2) is clueless.

@TPB: Apologies for clicking dislike on your post. Spastic move on my part that I can't seem to undo.

Nomograph says

The ticket is a good education from a good school; a degree from a UC, Stanford, or Caltech is the ticket, while one from Cal State Chino will put you farther back in line.

Dr Professor Civil Servant,
Please tell me about Cal State Chino. I did not know about it. Maybe some slacker kids I know can get accepted to it.

Passing,

The Professor's Gig is an elite taxpayer supported grad school. For sure those kind of outfits add to the GDP and overall tax base of the state, it's the reason I voted for Prop-71 in a time of statewide cutbacks.

That said, just like individual Realtors® who say that real estate always and only goes up, The Professor needs to talk up his Gig, even if Your Individual Results May Vary.

Nomograph says

just_passing_through says

It's called being realistic and has nothing to do with not being positive.

Pessimists seldom realize they are pessimists; they always claim to be "realists."

just_passing_through says

Many of those jobs you linked to are fake. Biotech companies do that to make it look like they are doing well.

Complete BS. You just made that up because you are pessimistic.

just_passing_through says

Overall, for most, biotech sucks for a career. Anyone who says otherwise either (1) works in some capacity that is non-science related but could get paid better doing the same thing in another industry or (2) is clueless.

You sound like a real negative guy. Employers go to great lengths to keep people like you out of positions of importance; pessimists bring down productivity and are toxic to morale.