patrick.net

rootvg says

I've been a lot of places and trust me, California is an economic and cultural bubble.

Definitely.

Kevin says

Because white people (specifically, white men) run the whole country (and really the whole world).

THAT'S it? THAT is what makes me racist? The fact is, there is a major double standard in this country, and it is unwarranted. I understand why affirmative action was created. Years ago, underprivileged groups did not have access to the tools of self betterment that White Males had. Does any reasonably coherent person think there is one single person in this country that does not have access to the tools of self betterment because of the color of their skin or gender or sexual orientation? Give me a break. Everyone has the same access. Is it harder if you're poor, from the inner city? Yes. Is it super easy if you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth? Yes. I would fight for more opportunities for underprivileged inner city or rural area kids to help guide them. But in the middle class world, the blacks and Hispanics and Women really need self promotional groups?? Why? They serve no purpose but to purport racism, however accepted they are. I'm made to feel guilty for being white. This is how I am marginalized. I grew up in a middle class neighborhood an hour outside of Los Angeles. On my street, there were girls, boys, whites, browns, blacks, maybe one asian kid. Our Community, employment, and societal prospects have been EXACTLY the same our entire lives. EXCEPT, they have had promotional groups, scholarships, recruitment targeting, hiring practices, etc., that have all been specifically directed at them simply because they are brown, black or whatever, while I have not. This is my argument for why white males are marginalized. Thank you for taking the time to think about my position from a logical point of view, and not simply spewing hatred. Thank you

Right, Jeremy. So-- employers, police officers, the court system, don't continue white privilege through preferential treatment?

The big issue here is that white people don't mind white privilege. They believe this is normal, because they believe themselves to be culturally superior. Isn't that really it?

tatupu70 says

rootvg says

Even if it were true, you couldn't do anything about it. There are far more votes in the Electoral College for our way of thinking than for yours.

Not according to Jeremy and Scags. Us white men have been marginalized. Didn't you get the memo?

I can take you several places that immediately come to mind where white males aren't marginalized. None of them are in California, Massachusetts, Illinois or Maryland.

We are approaching a point in our nation's history where all the "feeling" and political correctness in the world aren't going to save us from ourselves. We're sitting on a demographic time bomb that's in the early stages of blowing up on us. I think our taxes, as a nation, are going to go up but I also think we're in the very early stages of making some decisions on means testing of our entitlements and possibly in wholesale collapsing of some cabinet level agencies into others. We're gonna pay more but people are damn well gonna make sure that money goes as far as it can. I mean, what do you think the Fox News phenomenon is all about?

There was story out several weeks ago about Paul Ryan meeting with a bipartisan committee in the House about entitlement reform, outside the normal channels. The upshot? BIG changes are coming. Obama and the Democrats have spent so much so quickly and so recklessly that now SOMETHING must be done about it, lest we end up as Greece or Italy or Spain. Grover Norquist and his people aren't stupid. Maybe this was the plan all along, to get progressives in a position where we simply have no alternative but to slip the debt monster's neck into a noose and strangle the son of bitch until it dies in order to save the nation. If that's the case, yeah...it'll work but it's awfully strong medicine.

rootvg says

We're sitting on a demographic time bomb that's in the early stages of blowing up on us.

Pretty much. Whether you're on the "right" or "left" or somewhere else, demographics don't lie. The boomers didn't have enough children to support them (via taxes) in their old age.

Then boomers sold off our industrial infrastructure to China for a quick buck, and now we don't have anything in this country other than fast food and financial speculation.

wthrfrk80 says

rootvg says

We're sitting on a demographic time bomb that's in the early stages of blowing up on us.

Pretty much. Whether you're on the "right" or "left" or somewhere else, demographics don't lie. The boomers didn't have enough children to support them (via taxes) in their old age.

Then boomers sold off our industrial infrastructure to China for a quick buck, and now we don't have anything in this country other than fast food and financial speculation.

It depends upon where you go. Parts of the south are industrializing quite nicely, and it's not the dirty industry we're all too familiar with in the Rust Belt. VW just opened that plant at Chattanooga. BMW and Mercedes have been building cars and SUVs in South Carolina and Alabama (respectively) since the nineties.

I understand Hershey is moving most of its Pennsylvania operations to Virginia. Disney has a huge data center in (of all places) suburban Columbus. The AT&T data center we point our network traffic to is in downtown Akron, half an hour from where I grew up.

Yes, most of California's aerospace industry is gone. Yes, most of the military bases that supported us for fifty years are also gone. I don't think California ever recovered from the base downsizing in the early nineties. That wound never healed, in my opinion. That's the real reason Stockton is a basket case...although I hear landing on those ~12000 ft runways is a lot of fun for a student. If you can't pass your check ride in that environment, you shouldn't be flying. There's a runway at Castle that was for the B-52 fleet and they say it's 150 ft wide. You almost land a Cessna 150 or 172 sideways!

kentm says

thomas.wong1986 says
I am white

okay, I gotta ask: why is your log in name "thomas.wong1986" if you're white?

Kevin says

I never thought you were Asian, you racist dipshit. Maybe you should try keeping people you're being batshit crazy at straight.

At what point did I make a racist comment... show me where and to who .. was it toward black, white, latin, or asian group ?

thomas.wong1986 says

kentm says

thomas.wong1986 says

I am white

okay, I gotta ask: why is your log in name "thomas.wong1986" if you're white?

Kevin says

I never thought you were Asian, you racist dipshit. Maybe you should try keeping people you're being batshit crazy at straight.

At what point did I make a racist comment... show me where and to who .. was it toward black, white, latin, or asian group ?

You didn't Wong. Its the typical nonsense of challenging someones' opinion and them yelling RACIST! RACIST! RACIST! at you to silence you. Some of us are starting to see through this transparent argument. It's okay to drop your baggage of "white guilt" we have been saddled with.

Jeremy says

THAT'S it? THAT is what makes me racist?

What makes anyone who believes white men are marginalized racist is the overwhelming truth that they are not.

If you believe white men are marginalized, you're either a racist or an idiot. The only way you could possibly believe this is if you are fearful of other races (or sexes) having a place in power.

thomas.wong1986 says

At what point did I make a racist comment... show me where and to who .. was it toward black, white, latin, or asian group ?

When you make comments like:

Should it be 75, 100, or 200 years...and who is to decide that ?

How many black presidents/congressmen must we have until so called discrimination has ended?
How many black CEOs and doctors must we have ?

Whats the quota you have in mind...

This all sounds like demands of some marxist guerrilla group holding out in the jungles of Peru demanding some power sharing structure from the government without actually having to do any work.

and

50 years is plenty of time in which success has been acheived.
Again, I remind you of the current president in office.

It shows your racism through and through.

I never claimed that you made a racist comment. I said that you're a racist. You don't have to say "I'm a racist" or use an obvious racial slur or anything to make your racism obvious.

Kevin says

The only way you could possibly believe this is if you are fearful of other races (or sexes) having a place in power.

I find this statement hypocritical and funny! If YOU'RE not fearful, why don't you agree to get rid of the form of affirmative action, giving preference to underrepresented groups, we have today! Go for merit, not entitlement. In lots of cases, it can be done.

I suppose you would say we can't get rid of it because of biases in the system and we should try to compensate for "historical injustices". You do understand that government can't change peoples instincts right? All of us, including you, have natural biases in our subconscious. These aren't going to go away because of "forced diversity".

thomas.wong1986 says

Racism today is hypocrisy

When Scag was tying to argue in a very unsubtle way that African Americans and Hispanics are inferior to whites and Asians when it comes to competing academically or in the corporate world you said he was making more sense than I was.

As for the reverse discrimination on an individual level. I understand your claim. But I still say that at this point the desire for diversity in the corporate world transcends affimative action laws, and conservatives are behind it too.

What you might not get is this.

Say you are a white man, who loses out in persuing a job to a latino woman, in spite of your experience and abilities (in your opinion are better than hers).

If the corporation decided that she was very trainable for the job, and she got the job because the value of adding Latino woman to the team, outweighed their perception of the value of your experience, this is their right.

They aren't doing it at this point because of affirmative action. It's just good business for a number of reasons, including the fact that some powerhouse genius who happens to be black or Latino in the future may not be willing to work in a monochrome male environment. Actually, these days a lot of white men or woman from urban environments are going to feel uncomfortable in an all white environment.

IF you want to argue this, your only choice is to argue the value that the corporation puts on diversity. But that value is not racist against whites. We just happen to be the majority soon to be not the majority, and some of us are not taking that in a very intelligent or dignified way.

I think the Blue Man Group has the right idea. Paint everybody one color and then all of this racial bullshit will go away.

Then we can direct our natural fighting instincts toward the Big Bankers who own our labor (via debt and dollar debasement)...instead of fighting each other based on skin reflectivity.

I don't know about you, but I'm fed up with this system of "privatize the profits, socialize the losses." That's not capitalism, that's socialism for the rich, as billionaire investor Jim Rogers (no socialist!) put it.

By the way, most of the Big Bankers are WASPs like me. I think they're scum because they're the biggest "welfare queens" around. When they failed, they got bailouts. The rest of us were stuck with the bill.

That's NOT capitalism! That's crony capitalism!

What a laugher, when white people attempt to pretend what people of color go through on a daily basis. Cry me a fucking river.

Have you ever been pulled over by state troopers and then asked if you recently "crossed the river"? Yeah, this Asian guy was pulled over back in college for having a tan during Spring Break in Texas.

Ever had the college students you teach talk about getting those "sand niggers". Hmmm, that happened in my class at this college in North Carolina when the Iraq War started.

And those Vietnamese success stories that "Wong" is talking about. Check your stats again about them being a Republican voting block. The uneducated parents may vote Republican. Check on how their professional kids vote. My parents voted Republican strictly on an anti-communism basis. That's done. There's other concerns now.

And frankly, Asian high schoolers get the shaft because of the Asian quota. That quota is pretty beneficial to white students. The way affirmative action works for whites in college admissions is "well-roundedness". Hmmm, sounds like a code word for diversity (except for white folks).

So no, I don't think whites are marginalized at all. Try again.

What you lib's will never understand is the concept of "do it for me, do it to me"
Its time all of us to be color blind, all the time, not when it suits us to "forward our own agenda".

Otherwise you are the prejudiced ones, you're the ones focused on color, judging others based on the color of their skin - not on the content of their character, or their qualifications.

This is truly bizarre. I'm not calling you racist to score political points, but it's amazing to me that you racists can't even see your own racism!

And frankly, it will be awesome when Caucasians become the minority in America.

As Louis says:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/TG4f9zR5yzY

CL says

This is truly bizarre. I'm not calling you racist to score political points, but it's amazing to me that you racists can't even see your own racism!

And frankly, it will be awesome when Caucasians become the minority in America.

As Louis says:

In California, they already are.

In Texas and the rest of the deep south, it'll be awhile.

In the Rust Belt? NEVER. I'm from that area and I'm telling you it won't happen because people there won't allow it. Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Buffalo are so deep with European roots, it hurts. My SAP friend there was looking at the donor list for the local library, saying it read like the Warsaw phone directory.

rootvg says

In the Rust Belt? NEVER

Ha. Great. The Midwest can be the next Hazelton, PA! How is that working out for them, post-immigrant hysteria?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California

2010 census says, that California is 57.6% White (40.1% Non-Hispanic White). In what world would white be a minority?

And remember that, although white, the Poles, Irish and Italians were once persona non grata in America. Unfortunately, their memories are short or they would remember when they, as immigrants, were treated thusly.

Bigotry begets bigotry. It's incumbent on this generation to resist the racism that their old, dying parents and grandparents instilled in their progeny. I think they will, and are.

CL says

rootvg says

In the Rust Belt? NEVER

Ha. Great. The Midwest can be the next Hazelton, PA! How is that working out for them, post-immigrant hysteria?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California

2010 census says, that California is 57.6% White (40.1% Non-Hispanic White). In what world would white be a minority?

And remember that, although white, the Poles, Irish and Italians were once persona non grata in America. Unfortunately, their memories are short or they would remember when they, as immigrants, were treated thusly.

Bigotry begets bigotry. It's incumbent on this generation to resist the racism that their old, dying parents and grandparents instilled in their progeny. I think they will, and are.

Can be? How about IS?

I have relatives in both states, remember? I know where to find good pizza, hoagies and shoo fly pie.

Here again, Tom Tancredo is right. We need some time for our political culture and economy to heal. We need some time (I'm thinking twenty years) for all these groups to assimilate.

You're actually making my point for me.

Scagnetti says

I find this statement hypocritical and funny! If YOU'RE not fearful, why don't you agree to get rid of the form of affirmative action, giving preference to underrepresented groups, we have today! Go for merit, not entitlement. In lots of cases, it can be done.

...because, due to millenia of discrimination, there's still a gross imbalance in power. I believe Affirmative action remains necessary at this point in time.

With time, and monitoring, I'm optimistic that one day it won't be needed, and there won't be glaring disparities between the races and the sexes, but that's just not the case today.

Scagnetti says

I suppose you would say we can't get rid of it because of biases in the system and we should try to compensate for "historical injustices". You do understand that government can't change peoples instincts right? All of us, including you, have natural biases in our subconscious. These aren't going to go away because of "forced diversity".

And yet they are. Government ended many forms of institutionalized discrimination, instituted wage equality laws, etc. All of these things have greatly moved the needle. In the last 50 years we've made more progress towards fairness and equality than the previous 5000 years combined.

RegenMD says

And those Vietnamese success stories that "Wong" is talking about. Check your stats again about them being a Republican voting block. The uneducated parents may vote Republican. Check on how their professional kids vote. My parents voted Republican strictly on an anti-communism basis. That's done. There's other concerns now.

LOL! kids vote Demo... until they get more mature, and switch to GOP. God Family and Country gene kicks in. And like many othe children of immigrants they vote GOP. Funny how things happen. Their parents are not uneducated, Infact i have known more than a few who came here and right into Calculas and Computer HS Classes later to universities long long ago before their children were born.

Thomas, well stated - and true in my experience. I grew up in a 100% Dumocrat family. I was the first to come to my senses (in my mid twenties) when I realized Dem's = Force, not Freedom. It took my parents a much longer time but they changed from the dark side too.

Our whole family went from 100% Dems - to 100% Peace and Freedom (Ron Paul).

Freedom is soooooo refreshing, you others should try it for a change.

Love, Abe

Honest Abe says

Freedom is soooooo refreshing, you others should try it for a change.

The only people who have "freedom" are in the top 0.1% who own everyone else's labor. The rest of us have to work 40 hours (or more) per week to survive.

Didn't the robber barons use things like race and ethnic divisions to cause the underclass to fight among themselves, rather than unite for their common economic interests?

Seems that strategery still works very well today, as evidenced by this thread...

wthrfrk80 says

Didn't the robber barons use things like race and ethnic divisions to cause the underclass to fight among themselves, rather than unite for their common economic interests?

These arguments seem familiar...

wthrfrk80 says

. The rest of us have to work 40 hours (or more) per week to survive

Come work in Silicon Valley.. you will be working 50-60 hours!
and that is not uncommon for any past decade.. 80s 90s and today.

Freedom.. pull yourself by the bootstrap, its worked for many today.

Mick, the correct name is not androids, but sociopaths. But thanks for stating the obvious!

Honest Abe says

I grew up in a 100% Dumocrat family

Let me guess. In the south ?

Marcus, this thread isn't about me, or where I grew up. Where are you from, the elitist North East or perhaps the screwball state of California?

State sponsored, forced discrimination is just as wrong as any other type of discrimination. Or are you of the camp "Murder is evil - unless the government does it, or counterfeiting is wrong, unless the government does it, or discrimination is bad, unless the government does it, or theft should be illegal, unless the government does it.

Geezzzz - how can your brain mentally justify that???

Honest Abe says

Where are you from, the elitist North East or perhaps the screwball state of California?

Yes. He obviously grew up in the South.

thomas.wong1986 says

LOL! kids vote Demo... until they get more mature, and switch to GOP. God Family and Country gene kicks in. And like many othe children of immigrants they vote GOP.

I believe that demographics show that all ethnic minorities have been voting for Democrats for several election cycles (except for Arab-Americans, who trend conservative, and that was prior to 9/11 and the right's Muslim assault).

Further, Demographics don't trend well for the Right. They've long lost the Jewish vote, the Black vote, will almost permanently lose the Hispanic vote.

The Asian vote has switches sides as well. I think even the anti-communist Cuban community has switched or is on the precipice of switching.

What's left of the GOP? Angry old white people.

CL says

What's left of the GOP? Angry old white people.

That and corporate money.

wthrfrk80 says

CL says

What's left of the GOP? Angry old white people.

That and corporate money.

You are correct, with a few exceptions. It's not like that in Texas but they'll go Republican anyway. 2012 isn't 1960 or 1964. That Democratic party disappeared around 1980. That was also when Rick Perry, Phil Gramm, Dick Armey and quite a few others jumped ship and became Republicans. Dick Shelby bailed soon afterward.

If Howell Heflin were alive and serving in the Senate today, I'm fairly sure he would be a Republican as well. If not, he'd be a DINO like Mark Warner.

Problem is...those angry white people are very much in the drivers seat in swing states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida. The vote in VERY significant numbers and they will determine who becomes President. They always do.

rootvg says

Problem is...those angry white people are very much in the drivers seat in swing states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida.

True that.

I think, demographically, we're in for a big shakeup vis a vis the two major parties.

Obviously the angry old white people will begin to die off. Replacing them is lots of new immigrants from south of the border. Poor, but socially conservative.

So the Republicans may have to get more "liberal" on economic issues to woo them. And the Democrats may have to get more "conservative" on social issues like abortion and gay marriage.

I think all of that would be a good thing.

wthrfrk80 says

rootvg says

Problem is...those angry white people are very much in the drivers seat in swing states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida.

True that.

I think, demographically, we're in for a big shakeup vis a vis the two major parties.

Obviously the angry old white people will begin to die off. Replacing them is lots of new immigrants from south of the border. Poor, but socially conservative.

So the Republicans may have to get more "liberal" on economic issues to woo them. And the Democrats may have to get more "conservative" on social issues like abortion and gay marriage.

I think all of that would be a good thing.

Agreed, but that's gonna be awhile. Quite awhile.

CL says

Further, Demographics don't trend well for the Right. They've long lost the Jewish vote, the Black vote, will almost permanently lose the Hispanic vote.
The Asian vote has switches sides as well. I think even the anti-communist Cuban community has switched or is on the precipice of switching.

FWIW, asian and latino (Californians) arent all immigrants or poor working class like the media and left-wing would like to portray.. they have been here for multiple generations now.. and many are successfull business people in many different fields with their own right and belief in tradional values of hard work and free enterprise.

Over the past 10 years now, here comes the east coast liberals, because they discovered Silicon Valley, and want to dictate their nonsense social policies trying to rewrite our successfully experiences for "Californians". Like so many, they are all to greedy to "write their own name" into our (Californian) history books.

Its just laughable!

CL says

What's left of the GOP? Angry old white people.

And angry Hispanic, Asian, and other groups who share the same political philosophies.

There's a big difference between the brand of Hispanic that goes to Texas and the brand that goes to California.

I've seen them and they ARE different.

rootvg says

the brand of Hispanic that goes to

I know nothing of "that goes to" but I know of many "Californians" who have been here and have Mexican ancestry, as i have known many of Italian, German, Japanese, Russian, Korean and other ancestry. I known them since they lived on the same block, gone to the same church, same schools, made friendships through out our lives. We are not the liberals some on the left and media paint us as being.

thomas.wong1986 says

rootvg says

the brand of Hispanic that goes to

I know nothing of "that goes to" but I know of many "Californians" with Mexican ancestry, as i have known many of Italian, German, Japanese, Russian, Korean and other ancestry. I known them since they lived on the same block, gone to the same church, same schools, made friendships through out our lives. We are not the liberals some on the left paint us as being.

I used that phrase because it came from a Hispanic guy who was working two and three jobs to put his academically talented kid through Jesuit Academy, which is probably the best Catholic HS in that area.

That isn't a politically correct area down there and I'm not a politically correct person...not gonna be, either.

rootvg says

That isn't a politically correct area down there and I'm not a politically correct person...not gonna be, either.

"politically correct" a foreign concept imported from the East Coast... puke!

Thomas, just because you keep giving stupid answers doesn't mean you're winning this thread.

Scagnetti, I think you could probably do with having a bit more white guy guilt.

This was a troll post.