patrick.net

as far as I'm concerned you lose your downpayment the moment you buy. What you have in return is a million dollar house that may go up and down in value with the market.
So it's not like your savings is lost into thin air, it enabled you to buy a million dollar house which you couldn't have done without saving for 10 years.

tatupu70 says

dunnross says

It's currency. Just because our gov't says it isn't, doesn't make it not a currency

Actually, that is exactly what it means.

dunnross says

5. This isn't like 1991 or 1979, so don't compare it to that. This is more like 1930 which you know nothing about, because you don't know anyone who lived back then.

So, you can only learn history from people who lived it? That's unfortunate. I guess we can fire a lot of history teachers then.

dunnross says

Housing is not an investment. It's just a shelter.

Nope--it is both.

For us, housing is shelter AND an investment vehicle because of our tax problem. I know that doesn't set well with people here but that's how it is.

toothfairy says

as far as I'm concerned you lose your downpayment the moment you buy. What you have in return is a million dollar house that may go up and down in value with the market.

So it's not like your savings is lost into thin air, it enabled you to buy a million dollar house which you couldn't have done without saving for 10 years.

Or a 800K home that you owe 800K on, and are now unemployed. I'd rather keep my 200K and let others take that risk for now. Add another 2 years onto the 10 and I save more and buy for less. That matters to me.

Darrell In Phoenix says

LIEWog/SubHuman,

Why are you the only ones who misrepresent the truth about housing?

Wrong wording, again.

You mean, why are we the only ones that PRESENT the truth about housing from what we find. These are not opinions but facts anybody and everybody is welcome to look up. Take a stroll in whatever neighborhood you live in and look at prices and watch how they develop.

You guys on the other hand spread nothing but your wishful opinions. No backup for anything you claim.

First off RentforHalf, just a few's months ago, you were crowing about a cheap rental in Palo Alto on craigslist. Many of us noted that it was a fraudulent post, it took you how many phone calls to figure that out? If you feel the Los Altos market is that soft compared to 2007, feel free to post some more listings for us to look at.

Housing may not be the best investment right now, heck it could be below average at this time but it's just disingenuous to state that it's not an investment. I'm sure I can make 120k (deducting the 6%) on my purchase from earlier this year. There's a unit that is 30% smaller, on the noisier side of the building, with a much smaller patio that has closed for 50k over my purchase price. Certain neighborhoods in SF are just that frothy.

DukeLaw says

Certain neighborhoods in SF are just that frothy.

You guys almost had me agreeing that since 2008 there was money to be made in the housing market until I ready the word frothy in the DukeLaw comment.

When you say frothy you mean sales hype.

There is another idiot buying property every minute. Just because a bigger idiot than the last one purchases a property doesn't make property a good deal.

The only good deal is one where you can buy, and sell it for a profit.

The whole point is that Real Estate is now a volitile investment filled with uncertainty depending on how you look at it.

Frothy is this years sales line, last year it was historically low interest rates, low inventory.

The Professor says

We dislike realtors because they have squoze out as much money as they can and have now left us with an overpriced house and a future promised away to the bank.

In 2006 I bought a house. All economic indication were that we would see massive inflation. I'm not the only one that felt that as oil began to climb it was a good indication that it was a good time to take on debt.

A lot changed in that year, and we sold that house, and another before July 2007 when all we retained was the family home.

So I don't fault Real Estate agents as much as I fault the government, and the banks who were making the loans.

The bank loan is supposed to be backed by the asset value. I may not have seen a crash coming as quickly, but banks surely did. There is no way in hind sight that banks, lenders, and investors, who had global perspective, could have not known we had an over heated market place.

I blame the bank loan process that lent money far in excess of property value.

If our foreclosure system were allowed to function properly, we wouldn't be having this mess.

The Professor says

I agree. RE agents were as ignorant as the rest of us.

But they still got their commision.

i doubt you will find the rest of us.. creating fictitious bidders.

Of course RE agents can create as many fake offers they like and repeat the cycle.

thomaswong.1986 says

creating fictitious bidders.

You can't create a ficticious bidder on a property.

Where do you get that?

David Losh says

thomaswong.1986 says

creating fictitious bidders.

You can't create a ficticious bidder on a property.

Where do you get that?

"We have 13 competing bids sir. Please submit your best and final by eow tommorow."

dodgerfanjohn says

"We have 13 competing bids sir.

Your best, and final is always what you originally thought, and never get yourself into a multiple offer situation.

Multiple offers mean wait for the market to cool off.

The point is that an agent can't arbitrarily say there are other offers, without having those offers in hand.

The next time that happens to you ask to see the other offers before you escalate, because you are willing to go highest, and best offer.

The problem with amatuers is they get weeded out of the market place. If I'm the agent with a buyer I'm going to want the agent to produce other offers, if I were ever to encourage any buyer to go into a multiple offer situation, which I wouldn't.

Where do you guys get this kind of phantom offer stuff from anyway?

Darrell In Phoenix says

Ask yourself that question my dear used house salesman.

That's not an answer because you don't have one. You're speculating that inexperienced agents will say anything to get a Real Estate commission. It does happen, but those agents leave the business because other agents won't do business with them.

Your reputation, as an agent, in the Real Estate community is what gets more transactions.

That is the problem with agency, any one can join, but only a few survive.

Are you doing business with an agent that is in the business for the long haul, or a newbie?

You, as the buyer, or seller still need to get a deal, so you should pick an agent on ability rather than likability.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Ask an honest question and you'll get an honest answer

I guess you are trying to say that this phantom offer thing is an industry standard for used house sales people, I guess, because you aren't saying anything.

The truth is that is one of the most debunked illusions people have about used house sales people. Any agent can ask to see the highest, and best, or the volume of offers.

The very, very sad truth is that agents do write multiple offers on properties.

Writing a highest, and best offer has to be the stupidest thing any agent can get involved with, but they do it, usually at the buyer's insistence.

There are some agents that encourage the multiple offer situation because it creates urgency.

But the very, very sad truth is agents do write into multiple offer situations, and buyers, and sellers go along with that.

Darrell In Phoenix says

Ask an honest question

Please post your definition for "honest question"

Darrell In Phoenix says

Because it is.

I guess we are in a he said, she said situation.

I've been in the business of Real Estate a long time, and what I know is that it is sad we have multiple offers, but they do really happen.

Now if you are talking short sales, that is an industry standard to have the loss mitigator collect offers to counter at highest, and best. Those are always situations to walk away from.

The Professor says

David Losh says

So I don't fault Real Estate agents as much as I fault the government, and the banks who were making the loans.

I agree. RE agents were as ignorant as the rest of us.

But they still got their commision.

Actually, RE agents lost all of their commission and more in RE investment this last round. Some had to file BK to discharge their debt. Some even lost their spouse.

Karma is a bitch.