patrick.net

TPB, your wish is our command, or rather "your prayers have been answered."

http://patrick.net/?p=1210364

Context?

Anyway, I don't think the left has a problem with Jesus. It's self-described Christians I generally find offensive.

Christian theology has been hijacked by laissez-faire Capitalists, death-penalty supporters, immigrant bashers and jingoistic isolationists.

But the New Testament itself portrays none of that, its main character a penniless hippie.

CL says

But the New Testament itself portrays none of that, its main character a penniless hippie.

That's a librul lie! Pastor Clayton painted a picture of the real Jesus:

TPB says

Why don't they pick on Mohammad, Moses and Buddha?

Why are they persecuting Christians?

If you think that Christians are getting persecuted in America, you are living in la-la land. Christians, unfortunately, are running everything from the court systems to the legislators. Christians are not an oppressed people in our country.

It is precisely because fundamentalist Christians have attacked our Republic's laws and integrity, attack our basic rights and liberties, and have attacked science and education that rational human beings have struck back to denounce these things. And it just so happens to be that nearly all rational human beings hold the beliefs that you and Fox News call "liberal". Beliefs like the scientific method, fact checking, truth before canon, and civil liberty.

Oh, I could provide so many examples, but I don't want to write a 20-page post right now. So here's just a few.

For example, Santorum recently stated as fact that 10% of the deaths in the Netherlands are the result of forced euthanization. This is complete and utter bullshit with absolutely no foundation in reality whatsoever. But Santorum and the right are OK with this because "it feels like it's true" even though it's not. So, a blatant, pants-on-fire lie is ok if the emotional content of the lie is something that re-enforces your belief.

And that pretty much sums up the difference between the left and the right. Facts are important to the left. Feelings are important to the right. It's the very definition of truthiness.

Now, as to Moses, he is a fictional character just like most people from the Bible. And we atheists and true Americans, who believe in Democracy not Theocracy, object to the Ten Commandments being displayed in a court house and a judge sentencing people based on his religious beliefs. So don't say we don't pick on Moses.

As for Mohammed, he's a charlatan just like Jesus. He wanted to start a religion to gain wealth, power, and pussy. Both Jesus and Mohammed came from the same backwards ass culture that is sexist, xenophobic, illiterate, violent, and oppressive. I.e., just like the Bible belt or the Middle East today.

Oh, and Jesus was the mother of all Communists. That's right. Jesus was promoting Communism before Marx. Hell, Marx got his ideas straight from Jesus. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" means the exact same thing as "I am my brother's keeper" and "that which you do to the least of my people you do unto me". It means you put everyone's needs on par with your own. Fundamentalists are complete hypocrites for claiming that Jesus's teachings are so damn important that we need to turn America into a Christian Theocracy, but not actually following those teachings.

Christianity and capitalism are utterly incompatible. You cannot simultaneously serve the philosophical principles of

If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

and

Greed is good.

They are contradictions.

However, in contrast to fundamentalist, liberal Christians do follow Christ's teachings way better. Now, as an atheist, I don't put Christ on a pedestal, after all, he's not omniscient. But at least I can respect the lack of hypocrisy on the part of liberal Christians, even when they are wrong. The Christian right, however, smacks of hypocrisy.

And there are plenty of Christians in the left, including the way-the-fuck left. Take, for example, the Kennedys. I've heard they are Catholic. So your premise that the left hates Jesus is utter bullshit. All those left-wing Irish and Polish Catholics who vote Democrat consistently do not hate Jesus.

Hell, even I don't hate Jesus. He's a freaking puppet whose absurd religious, political, and social beliefs have been so twisted by people over the past 2000 years, that his original teachings have been almost completely lost. All we really know about him is that he liked the idea of abandoning city life and living in austerity in the desert in utter poverty worshiping a fictitious god. And he never believed that he was god.

However, I do hate the hypocrites who try to use Christianity to turn America into a sick dystopia that tortures and murders innocent men, women, and children in the name of some false savior who allegedly preached about "turning the other cheek" and "doing good to those who hurt you" and "loving your enemies".

Anyone who uses the power or the state to enforce a religious ideology will always use that power for evil. And it is exactly that use of state power for evil, whether done by Christian, Muslim, or any other religion, that I oppose as an American, a Westerner, and an atheist.

The only thing you got kind of correct is the implied belief that people who are atheists tend to be associated with liberal rather than social conservative culture. But that's because atheism is a sign of intelligence and the social conservative culture of fundamentalism is ignorant, illiterate, and glorifies stupidity. I wish that wasn't true, but it is. Social conservatives loved Bush because he was a fucking moron and they didn't feel threatened by his intelligence. They hated Al Gore because he talked smart and made them feel dumb.

Dan8267 says

Christians, unfortunately, are running everything from the court systems to the legislators. Christians are not an oppressed people in our country.

Yes they are. They need a NAAChiP organization. National Association Advancement of Christian People. To stand up against the persecution of them from the Liberal Devil worshipers, and anarchist atheists.

CL says

Anyway, I don't think the left has a problem with Jesus. It's self-described Christians I generally find offensive.

Right, how does that saying go...?

“Please Jesus, protect me from your followers.”

Tim Tebow is the man on my NY Jets!

Jesus isn't the problem. He was a relatively harmless man who was trying to reform Judaism. He was homeless. He wandered around with 12 men and a woman preaching peace and love. He told those who would follow him to leave everything behind in order to follow him. He liked to drink and dance, like any good Jew. His message wasn't new in Jewish thought but he pissed off someone in power and was cruxified. He was buried in accordance with Jewish Law and when a woman came to visit the body to put the finishing touches on his body, the body was gone. Most likely the body was stolen. But anyway...

You'd think that wing nuts would detest Jesus as the homeless hippie he is. He never had a job. He lived off of other people's kindness. He drank like a fish. He was intensely anti-establishment. He basically told the wealthy establishment that they would never be able to truly follow him unless they left all of their power and wealth behind.

I am a flaming Liberal. I kind of like Jesus, the historical one and not the inflated idol that whacko right-wing Christian Fundamentalists have invented.

The real problem here is that the whacko right-wing "Christians" who hold all the wealth and the power lording it over us while trying to tell everyone else how to live their lives who don't actually follow Jesus at all. They are all about establishment, wealth, power, injustice, war, and inequality. Jesus stood for none of these things. He stood for the oppressed, he visited career criminals in jail, he cured sick people without demanding payment (socialized medicine), he sided with the "sinners," he advocated peace, he told the people to pay their taxes (render to Caesar what is Caesar's), etc.

TPB says

To stand up against the persecution of them from the Liberal Devil worshipers, and anarchist atheists.

1. How many devil worshipers have you met in your life?
2. What the hell does atheism have to do with anarchy?

ATK says

Tim Tebow is the man on my NY Jets!

I've started hating Tim Tebow since he started dating Taylor Swift. What, can't he ruin someone else's fantasy?

simchaland says

Jesus isn't the problem. He was a relatively harmless man who was trying to reform Judaism.

True, he was just another religious zealot in a land of religious zealots. Christianity wouldn't even exist if it hadn't been for Saul turned Paul and later Constantine, ever the politician.

simchaland says

He wandered around with 12 men and a woman preaching peace and love.

Actually, Christ's 12 apostles didn't exist. This myth was copied directly from Horus who had 12 apostles, and he had 12 apostles because there were 12 major constellations, the 12 signs of the Zodiac, in the night sky. That's also the reason we have 12 hours of night and 12 hours of day to make a 24-hour day. Yep, it all goes back to ancient Egyptian myths.

Why do I hate nationalism? Because people have to have something to believe in. See. Its what you fear. People fear Jesus and God and Harpo. Some people fear the government. I see no reason to fear or believe in either. The government is bullshit and I'm still here.

When you buy into a belief system. Like oh Chrisitanty or the government. You tend to swallow the whole thing. Hook, line and sinker. You never would think its a sucker speed trap. The government makes you a good citizen and a dupe. I see them lying the same old lies. Watch people go around in stupid unreasonable back and forth made for a childs minds, games. Nothing ever comes of it of course. To embarassed to bring their unreasonble fears into work. See subconsciously you have a few thoughts. If I play at the BS game of nationalism I will get along and will be a part of things. Makes life oh so much smoother and well no one wants to have trouble in their lives. Another thought is you can get ahead. Play the game their won't be any trouble. I don't. I'm still here. Being dependant or having to kiss anyones ass because of subconscious fear or conscious fear is repulsive to me. That goes for the pope, Jesus the government or any fear that happens to be there. An actuated person has no fear. Some don't know that kind of exsistance. I find that very sad.

Most of you have a boss. Nevermind hes my best friend bullshit or we have a good rapport. You serve the fucker. Plain and simple. You fear him. His crackers better be squeaky clean before the whistle blows. You may not be coming back if they aren't. Dude that just ain't natural for a man to have a "boss". I hate to tell you. Wendy rubber mistress of the Ganges ok. Thats just sex. But kissing the grease fittings of some guy 5 days a week competing with everyone else to see who can "lube" him up the fastest and get him out the door. Get married have kids and a mortgage. Whoah Corky. Its bobbin' for apples in his garden tub for his amusement.

Nevermind the really big boy's just about anyone around is willing to do sword swallowing or join the carnival just to amuse them. So fuck you Warren Buffet, Rockefeller, Queen "Dirt Bag" of England and your kids. Prince William and his new Wife "Pickles". Paper means nothing to me. I'm after THE FUCKING ASSETS. See your just a bunch of slick hustlers all of you. Nothing more. People think your great. Your swindlers. See no fear. If they don't like it well look me up I'm in the telephone book. I'm still here and will be tommorow. See what you can do. People have all kinds of fucking imaginations of what people like that can do. If your part of the "fractional 1000 'Sheeet' double ply extra absorbant roll" crowd and don't have your "own" you live in them.

Playing into Jesus pro or con is really "safe" ground after all they set the parameters. I don't play on "safe" ground. I don't have to.

Like discussing the ole political national debate. Or even with their friends for the most part in face to face conversation. Why? Because its embarassing. No one wants to look stupid. So at work or in person with friends. Its just not done. You know deep down inside your being made a fool of. You can't resist the conflict. No matter how asinine. In your fantasy. You become the party of hero's. Saving the world from injustice. The sad part of it all is you know damn well. It's fodder for a childs mind. Nothing ever comes of it. But you reason and think you will win. Your being played. Your go along because in your life you think it will lift you to the finest spot in heaven or for those who aren't space rangers. Get you ahead in life on the earth. Another words it takes you "no where" except in your mind.

My friends the ones that "made it". Were just to "cool for school". They wouldn't be schooled. The ones that failed. Believed in it. They did so much so they would never look for another way. Either not "making it" or being someones lackey. Playing the game for the rest of their life till what they sadly found out. Once your in they never let you out. It takes a little bit of awarness on your part. To see what they are "selling you". If you don't see what they are trying to do its your loss. Another words get on their "track" to success your a piss boy for the rest of your life for them. I don't believe in school anymore than the government, Jesus or the pope. If you ever let yourself out of your belief system. Get with others that have no beliefs in anything but living a good life for themself and no one else. You just may find that out. That's tagged as "selfish". However you just may find out the only "selfish" reasons they have is not being part of ANY stupid wandering herd of believers. We don't like people nessesarly that won't "get smart". We just go on with our lives and feel sorry for them. People that get on their "track to success" are living day to day, "hand to mouth". Just hoping they don't get their jobbie taken away and get thrown out of the house they don't own (if you owned it "brain surgeon" they couldn't throw you out) and won't be able to shop at all those fine grocery stores all filled with the same "slop" they give everyone else. The fractional system is extra diligent about "slopping" their "work force" or "labor force" so they can go to work and "grovel" for more paper and build, maintain and service their empire. They get all the "hard assets". You get one dwelling, slopped, transport to your jobbie and gas and some extras and a fucking TV set that slings out bullshit like a commercial manure machine.

"Commercial Shit slinger"

I have had friends from all walks of life. Some believe the BS. Some don't believe any of it. Those are the most fun to be around. They love to snow the people who are trying to jerk them off.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/rnT7nYbCSvM

Journey one of my favorite rock groups. I put this on with the Soprano's ending. I love that series. I have seen it all the way through at least 5 times. MAKE THE MOVIE FOR GOD'S SAKES. It would make a fortune. We are craven it.

Just a city boy born and raised in South Detroit..............

TPB says

Why are they persecuting Christians?

Persecuting? See what you call persecution in the USA is more like this:

And less like this:

I'd post some modern pictures of ACTUAL persection in other countries, but they are pretty gruesome.

I certainly don't hate Jesus - He did a hell of a job mowing my lawn this morning....

I'm pretty sure the Christian right would bring back slavery if they could.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/G3BmxjhmN20

Well I've decided to go back with my last GF. She likes this vid for some reason. Who the fuck are these people in the vid anyway? The Syrian girl could not figure it out. The Syrian babe just isn't working out. She's not all that bright anyway. Gets my goadie. My GF I'm back with that I think I really like. She's a math genuis. Not only that she can hotwire a car.

Artimus Maxtor 7:19 You'll get what you deserve.

Dan8267 says

I'm pretty sure the Christian right would bring back slavery if they could.

Dan,
who would you say is responsible for our current wealth redistribution system that has me being forced to part with my wages under threat of punishment for them to be handed to someone who did not earn them in any regard? Is that not the same as slavery? I am made to support/work for/ earn for another, against my will. Slavery. Right? Right!

Bap33 says

Dan,
who would you say is responsible for our current wealth redistribution system that has me being forced to part with my wages under threat of punishment for them to be handed to someone who did not earn them in any regard? Is that not the same as slavery

Mostly, your employer.

Employers take the lion's share of a producer's production before the government even comes in with taxation.

Now, do I think takes are too high? My effective tax rate for the income tax alone is 25%. That's ridiculous for someone who doesn't live in a mansion. Counting other taxes (SS, medicare, sales, etc.), my effective tax rate is over a third of my income. Counting the inflation tax, it's probably about half of my income.

And where does my tax money go? Mostly to unjust wars and bailouts of large corporations and banks. Both parties are to blame for that, but the Republicans are worse because they allow corporations and banks to become too-big-to-fail instead of enforcing anti-trust laws. And then they allow those too-big-to-fail corporations to do anything they want.

If I had complete fiat, the income/ss/medicare/sales tax would all go away. The government would perform all rent-seeking functions including banking and natural resource extraction, and all rent profits would be used to fund the government.

Naturally, I'd have to cut spending by 90%, but that's easy. I'd start with the military and all subsidies including farming and oil. I'd limit SS to those born before VE day. The Baby Boomers would simply have to pay part of the check for once.

Bap33 says

to be handed to someone who did not earn them in any regard?

The amount of your produced wealth that goes to the poor via taxation, whether the poor person is someone who got sick or is just a lazy bum, is a tiny fraction compared to the amount of your produced wealth that goes to the ruling class.

Bap33 says

I am made to support/work for/ earn for another, against my will. Slavery. Right? Right!

Taxation, although certainly unjust in our society, is hardly slavery. Real slavery, as it occurred in our country, was far worse. At least your employer doesn't whip you and rape your wife and daughters. That was the norm in the south during slavery.

I love a good citizen. Nothing forces you to be a good citizen. DEM no good louzy Welfare people if someone gives dem a job. Its a bitch trying trying to straighten out equality.

Try feedin straight people my old buddy used to tell me. We used to get liquored up and laugh our assess off. The guy was just plain smart about life. Give me the BS of how people stick together. He new how to make people work for him. There are lemmings and sharks. He weren't no lemming. I'm no shark. Just don't have that ability. Also I don't have to be one which is nice. I could tell him. Paper is nothing it makes you go into work everyday. Paper is debt and consumption.

MLK was a great guy, yea. We just love a pacifier. Hey I'm not stupid. Know what you assume all of them are. They really aren't. Thats just the way it goes. I could care less for the sharks amoung them. But then again. Hey. They have a way of looking at little. It don't all belong to them. However they have a nice way about things. Unlike sum people I know. I have always liked them for the most part. Theyre thought "might be" if your going to wreck the world. Because were for the most part "not stupid enough to do something like that". Turn it into a shithole where nothing comes up. Your going to feed us to. Bonded servitude which many of them laugh at. Oh we move slow stupid were on a 24 clock till we get paid. I guess they know a bad deal when they see one. You owe you agree to are earth bound facts because your dealing in things taken from that earth. Not something inane like Jesus falling out of the sky saying pay them.

People in the "modern world" just aren't very concious of the fact. That people who don't break up things that should make it a nice place. Don't like them very much. In fact some of them the despise them. "Modern" is sold on we are the greatest "most civilized". When in fact they owe and owe and owe. Its never going to change.

Princess Pickle (from a far off land) might have asked why do we have to feed dem? Because they will wreck all our assets and burn them to the ground my little hamburger topping.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/ejorQVy3m8E

Citizens are real troopers.

Dan8267 says

I'm pretty sure the Christian right would bring back slavery if they could.

I don't think so. As a culture slavery has become immoral, and this attitude permeates even the christian right. So, I don't think that modern christians would promote the return of slavery.

However, there is nothing in the bible that prohibits slavery; in fact the "morality" in the bible assumes that people own slaves and gives rules on how one should treat there slaves. If human society were to undergo a moral transformation where slavery became "OK" again then I think that christians -- right wing or not -- would be able to easily reconcile it with their beliefs.

leoj707 says

Dan8267 says

I'm pretty sure the Christian right would bring back slavery if they could.

I don't think so. As a culture slavery has become immoral, and this attitude permeates even the christian right. So, I don't think that modern christians would promote the return of slavery.

This is one of many things that I hope I'm wrong about. Still I need to see something other than hate coming from the Christian right to believe they have learned their lesson. They still try to whitewash the whole slavery thing by saying that the Civil War was about state's rights, not human rights.

Dan8267 says

True, he was just another religious zealot in a land of religious zealots. Christianity wouldn't even exist if it hadn't been for Saul turned Paul and later Constantine, ever the politician.

Paul sucks. The only thing he done was Yesterday. Ooops....I mean, the only thing he done was First Corinthians, 13. I think it was the inspiration for Rundgren's "Real Man".

Poor persecuted christians, with their 90% majority. It must be hard.

Completely innaccurate analysis. I know plenty of Catholics, especially the young non-anglo Catholics who are quite liberal in their views. In fact, they will be voting for Obama even if he were to face Santorum in the general election. They believe and rightfully so that the mainsteam religious right in this country is basically the antithesis of what Jesus stood for. Moreover the values of the "right" whether socially or fiscally speaking is the antithesis of what Jesus stood for.

The whole religion is based on Marytrdom, which explains they always try to twist things so that they are the persecuted.

Most of the lurid Roman prosecution crap - mass burnings, thrown to lions, etc. is rubbish, that first appear long after these events occurred with no confirmation in any Roman accounts or records. Some barely literate monk writing in some Benedictine Monastery in Alsace around the High Middle Ages type deal, almost thousand years later. The Lion stuff in particular dates from the building of Saint Peter's, when the Pope was pulling apart the remains of the Colosseum for stone to build it with many, many centuries after the end of the Western Empire. A good excuse for as to why the Pope was pulling apart the landmark, rather than "We're too poor to import stone from elsewhere". All the memorials of Martyrs allegedly thrown to the lions also dates from about this time, and is not mentioned prior to it.

The "Prosecutions" were mostly about pledging allegiance to Rome and less about Religion:

Early Christians, regarded Jews, Pagans, Mithraists and Zoroasterians alike as "Devil Worshipers" or "Christ Deniers" - they didn't see idols as silly, powerless things like the Jews or Zoroasterians, but as actual evil spirits (Spirit in Greek: "Daemon")or Devils. And they behaved with that mentality when confronted with other religious followers and temples - and the Great Leader of Devil Worship, the Roman Emperor.

Jews, who also refused to make supplications at Imperial Statuary were not persecuted. Because unlike Christians, Jews thought Pagans were just "silly" for worshiping rocks, were not believers in an immediate End of the World, and by that time had come to grips with the Diaspora (although even before 70AD many tens of thousands of Jews were voluntarily living in Rome, Alexandria and elsewhere, as well as many "Hellenized" Jews - what we might call today "Secular Jews" - who liked being Roman Citizens, probably the majority). A mere prayer to the God(s) for the Emperor's health was considered enough of a supplication by Roman Authorities - and that was generally required only of those who had raised suspicion upon themselves by public action or utterance.

The only time you'd see Jews or Zoroasterians harassed in the Roman Empire would be during the times of Hebrew Revolts or Wars with Persia, and AFAIK were not imperially sanctioned, and mostly mob violence. The same shit you see in all ages and in all times happening to a minority in a country that's at war with the minorities' home country (Germans in the UK/Japanese in the USA in WW2)

We have 3 punishments handed down to misbehaving Christian Leaders by Diocletian, the only ones that survive. In an era where the death penalty was ubiquitous, not a single one is a death sentence. Maybe, giving the more reasonable Church historians benefit of the doubt, a few hundred died under both Decian and Diocletian.

However, there are accounts of Christians committing a form of "Suicide by Cop":

Unhappy men! Unhappy men! If you are thus weary of your lives, is it so difficult for you to find ropes and precipices?"

- Antoninus, a Roman Proconsul for Asia, addressing Christians who came to him, cursed the Emperor to his face as a Devil Worshiper, and demanded to be put to death as martyrs.

So imagine if you will, around 250 AD, a handful of manic street preachers running through the streets screaming "Rome is gonna fall; it is a cesspit of Satan! Embrace the Messiah of Heaven, not the Emperor of this fallen World!", ripping down Imperial Decrees, spitting on statuary, assaulting Priests of every kind, and then being arrested for treason. Rather than poor Christian slaves being hunted down 24-7 by the non-existent secret police and thrown into the nearest arena to wrestle with panthers, for the mere act of drawing a fish symbol in a grotto.

Later on, unsurprisingly, a group called the Donatists rose up, who wanted to excommunicate their fellow Christians and dispose Christian Leaders who had behaved themselves and obeyed the authorities in cutting out the fanatic crap.

simchaland says

I am a flaming Liberal. I kind of like Jesus, the historical one and not the inflated idol that whacko right-wing Christian Fundamentalists have invented.

YOUR Jesus is a false jesus. Jesus was not pro-gay or pro-abortion. Jesus said that :But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

FaithInHim says

YOUR Jesus is a false jesus.

No, yours is.

FaithInHim says

Jesus was not pro-gay

If Jesus was a homophobe, which he probably was given the time in which he lived, then he was an asshole and no god. Why would you worship a bigot?

FaithInHim says

leoj707 says

FaithInHim says

YOUR Jesus is a false jesus.

No, yours is.

Sorry, mines is correct. Your's is wrong.

Who said that I had a jesus, but regardless yours is wrong...

...sorry.

who says a man is a bigot if he is not in favor of sexually deviant male sodomites?

FaithInHim says

Define the word racist.

Bigotry based on race.

FaithInHim says

Then tell me if it is possible to be racist towards gays.

Logically no. Such a person would simply be a bigot, but not of the racist variety as homosexuality is not a race.

Bigotry is bad. It makes people act mean towards others, hurt others, and infringe upon the rights of others.

From your username and icon, I presume you are a devote Christian. You do remember that Jesus said "love your neighbor as yourself" and "that which you do unto the least of my people, you do unto me", right? How do you rectify hatred of homosexuals with that philosophy? It seems to me that you are holding two contradictory beliefs at one time.

Bap33 says

who says a man is a bigot if he is not in favor of sexually deviant male sodomites?

I'm not in favor of man on man ass sex. But I think that homosexual men are equal under the law, and that they are not an abomination. To treat them as second class citizens is Unamerican. To treat them as subhuman is Unchristian.

Really, do you have to be reminded by the atheist of the tenants of your own faith? How about the golden rule? Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

How can anyone rectify the golden rule with holding up a sign at a funeral saying "your fag son now burns in hell"?

FaithInHim says

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

The effeminate? That's harsh. Poor Lyle.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl9otu_saturday-night-live-lyle-the-effeminate-heterosexual_fun

Bap33 says

who says a man is a bigot if he is not in favor of sexually deviant male sodomites?

still waiting for this answer. Dan said he is not in favor of sexually deviant male sodomites, but I do not feel Dan is a bigot.

Bap33 says

Dan said he is not in favor of sexually deviant male sodomites, but I do not feel Dan is a bigot.

"Not in favor" (i.e. neutral) is different than treating someone like a second class citizen. Trying to create a different set of "rights" and using pejorative terms to describe someone is not remaining "neutral" towards them.

thanks for sharing your personal opinions.
The question stands unanswered.

Bap33 says

thanks for sharing your personal opinions.

You are welcome.

Bap33 says

The question stands unanswered.

To use Dan's definition.
Dan8267 says

[Bigotry] makes people act mean towards others, hurt others, and infringe upon the rights of others.

"Not in favor" can be neutral or against. Based on his comments Dan is neutral towards the idea of non-heterosexuals. He does not disparage or seek to create a different set of rights for them. So you are correct Dan is not a bigot.

However, another person could be "not in favor" of non-heterosexuals and at the same time, "act mean towards [non-heterosexuals], hurt [them], and infringe upon [their] rights." This second hypothetical person would be a bigot.

That make sense? I hope it helps clear things up for you.

Bap33 says

Dan said he is not in favor of sexually deviant male sodomites,

Just to clarify, Bap. Although I do not engage in anal sex with other men and find the idea repulsive, that does not mean I think that men who do are morally or legally inferior. Consenting men have every right to have anal sex. It's none of yours, mine, or the government's business.

I find old people having sex to be repulsive. That doesn't mean it is immoral or should be illegal. And there are more old people have sex in Florida -- shudder -- than there are gay people having sex here.

Just because you or I find something icky, doesn't make it despicable. I wouldn't even use the term deviation as that term implies derogation.

Now, I have yet to hear one sensible reason whatsoever from anyone in all of history as to why homosexual anal sex should in any way be immoral.

Some things make sense to call immoral: rape, murder, physically harming a person or animal in any way. Other things don't make sense to call immoral and are arbitrary cultural rules like: not eating meat on Friday, not eating pork, do not wear mixed fabrics.

So tell me why homosexuality should be considered immoral. And don't bother using Bible quotes. The Bible is OK with slavery; it's not a moral authority.

leoj707 says

Based on his comments Dan is neutral towards the idea of non-heterosexuals.

Actually I wish a higher percentage of men were gay. Less competition.

It's all about supply and demand. If only I had access to the army's gay bomb, I'd have detonated it in college. Then I would have gotten a lot more action. ...from women that is.

leoj707 says

He does not disparage or seek to create a different set of rights for them.

Correct. I believe in equality under law. No exceptions.

I don't get how anyone can call themselves American and not believe in that idea. It's the very foundation of our country. Granted, the founding fathers certainly fucked up in implementing that principle with the 80 years of slavery after the revolution, but the principle is still the very reason we sought independence in the first place.