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rootvg says

When Democrats are completely out of power in January, there are going to be some very important meetings on Capitol Hill.

I certainly hope so. I think we need a major "shake-up" and re-alignment in American politics if we hope to make things better in this country.

wthrfrk80 says

rootvg says

When Democrats are completely out of power in January, there are going to be some very important meetings on Capitol Hill.

I certainly hope so. I think we need a major "shake-up" and re-alignment in American politics if we hope to make things better in this country.

One of those changes may well be the rise of the Green Party. I've had an account at Democratic Underground for years and they talk about this all the time.

Another one may be the beginning of a secessionist movement in California or possibly the splitting of California into one or more states.

These queers, malcontents and professional rock throwers out here aren't going away. If we marginalize them by putting both of their Senators and most of their Congressmen in a semi-permanent minority status (that's what's setting up), something nasty is gonna happen.

TPB says

jerrypap says

I was born into a very poor family. I did not enjoy living on Ramon noodles and having to wear second hand clothes growing up. So I decided to change that when I turned 18.

Over the years I have woked my tail off buying, renovating, renting, and selling real estate.

Impossible, you must be fucking lying because Poor people aren't supposed to escape the social teat. If you flung up the social ladder, then the Liberals did their job wrong.

My biggest challenge every step of the way has all been related to onerous and typically nonsensical government restrictions - regulations, taxes, and a thousand other government policies that sometimes make it near impossible to get ANYTHING done.

If I attempted to start from nothing today with all of the new onerous regulations such as the new Dodd Frank banking bill (The Grand Daddy of them ALL), it is likely I would remain on the "social teet" forever more.

rootvg says

Another one may be the beginning of a secessionist movement in California or possibly the splitting of California into one or more states.

There is already a movement here in far Northern California and Southern Oregon to create a new state called Jefferson State. We have ZERO representation now and are completely at the mercy of liberal whack-jobs to our south. With all of their ridiculous socialist ideas that are actually becoming law, I am to the point of being ashamed to even admit I live in California...

wthrfrk80 says

But here's the problem: people aren't going to vote for a political movement that calls them stupid. Even if it's (possibly) true. That's "the matter with Kansas."

I'm not running for office and I know this. You see the problem as Democrats alienating the white working class. I see that as untrue...the democrats are the only party fighting for the working class...propogandists have convinced the dipshit white working class in middle america to fear brown people: "They are the terrorists," "They are taking your jobs, we have to protect the borders," "Affirmative Action is keeping you from working," "Forcing banks to lower lending standards and giving loans to brown people is what caused the housing crash," etc.
The fact that Democrats aren't lying to white middle america is not the problem...
That the white working class in places like Ohio, Kentucky, South Carolina, and Georgia among other places are not smart enough to fact find for themselves is the problem. Guys like Sean Hannitty and Limbaugh use this stupidity...

I am a former Republican who grew up and went to college in Ohio so I know exactly the type of person being manipulated.

I have arguments with family and friends in Ohio everytime I go home about how their taxes have gone up under Obama. Now anyone who works with the tax code will tell you this is impossible since taxes have not increased anywhere under Obama and given the payroll tax reduction they have actually decreased. That's not important to them. They heard on Limbaugh 'bout these libruhls raising their taxes so that is what they believe.

Meanwhile they believe God will deliver Rick Santorum riding in on his dinosaur to save them from the terrorists. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration but not much...

All you need to know about these people is they elect politicians who do not believe in evolution yet do believe that Obama was not born in the US or is a Muslim. There are many more white working class people on the coasts in so-called blue states and a much smaller percentage of them are swayed by the propaganda.

But I digress...what I am saying is not that Democrats call them stupid, it is that Republican propoganda tells them at every chance that the libruhls think they are stupid. And they believe it. Fact is, they are stupid and Republicans think it too.

jerrypap says

Dodd Frank banking bill

Because Affirmative action didn't kill Whitney.

david1 says

convinced the dipshit white working class in middle america

david1 says

That the white working class in places like Ohio, Kentucky, South Carolina, and Georgia among other places are not smart enough to fact find for themselves is the problem. Guys like Sean Hannitty and Limbaugh use this stupidity...

Thank you for making my point.

Even if they are stupid, it's best not to call them that if you want their vote.

A lot of McDonald's customers are stupid too. But the cashiers generally don't call them "stupid" to their face.

david1 says

Republican propoganda tells them at every chance that the libruhls think they are stupid. And they believe it. Fact is, they are stupid

Priceless.

I don't like the fact that government makes income taxes at 35%, but capital gains only at 15%. Seems like a one way street.

PockyClipsNow says

'middle class' is democrat code word for 'governement and union employees'. eff them.

We're all middle class. And I've never worked for the government or under a union. Have you?

im a ron paul nut job so i reject the R and D parties

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

tatupu70 says

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

If you don't understand this is a description of our out of control, big-brother liberal government you are part of the problem!

sheltielover1 says

tatupu70 says

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

If you don't understand this is a description of our out of control, big-brother liberal government you are part of the problem!

Well, they ARE part of the problem.

I want to see what happens when Republicans take the Senate and White House in November, leaving the largest state in the nation completely without majority representation in either the executive or legislative branches of the Federal government. Most Californians don't yet understand what that will mean but they're about to find out.

sack says

But the dividends have already been taxed once as corporate tax, taxing it again is probably netting the government more than your 35% (which I doubt many of us are paying). And you discount the fact that investments is what finances others to be "productive".

You do not get taxed at your income and then get taxed again for moving your money from checking account to savings account do you?

The corporation doesn't immediately give you a dividend when they realize profit. They don't come to you and ask for money when they lose money, do they?

Dividends are taxed because you're receiving a profit at that time. It's not double taxation because it just don't matter that the corporate profits have already been taxed. That's just absolutely irrelevant. You're taxed when the money becomes yours. It's pretty simple.

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

I don't understand where all this hatred of California comes from. California is hardly the crazy liberal utopia people think it is. It voted for a Republican president from 1968 to 1992. Since 1975 CA has had two Democratic Governors, (Jerry Brown from 75 to 83, Davis from 99 to 03, and Brown from 11 to present). People claim that Schwatzenegger won because he's so recognizable, but it also helped that he was just a Republican (and pro-choice), not a batshit insane Republican.

Gay marriage was legalized through lawsuit, not vote, after it was outlawed by way of prop 8. Medical marijuana was legalized but statewide decriminalization failed. We have prop 13. We passed 3 strikes. We passed prop 187, which was later ruled unconstitutional, but that doesn't change the fact that it passed in the first place.

Fact of the matter is that CA is not liberal crunchy granola utopia. It's got some pockets of that, but it's also got some strong conservative strongholds. The major difference is that a lot of the conservatives in the state aren't the extreme rightwing nutjobs that characterize the current Republican party.

Overall, CA is pretty moderate.

rootvg says

I want to see what happens when Republicans take the Senate and White House in November, leaving the largest state in the nation completely without majority representation in either the executive or legislative branches of the Federal government. Most Californians don't yet understand what that will mean but they're about to find out.

Oh, many Californians understand what that would mean, just many Republicans do not.

*hint* - reread the OP pic

tatupu70 says

sheltielover1 says

NO, I just want the fucking government telling me everything I HAVE to do!! NOT! You people are a bunch of arrogant fools who think you know it all. The country is NOT California! You'd be the idiots going to the camps because the government told you too because you'd "feel" better about yourself! Make me GAG!

wtf are you talking about??

This must be what david1 was referring to.

WTF HAS HAPPENED TO MY REAL ESTATE SITE! lol

I want MORE AND MORE of the GOP race.

I want every channel dedicated to this internecine civil war 24x7.

I want blood and gore on the floor.

I want billionaires spending their entire fortune to inflate Super PACs to obscene levels. Frankly right now they aren't spending nearly enough, maximize the Citizens United effect and just make it official that Richie Rich decides who sits in the White House, and it's best if it's one of their own.

Set that money free into the economy instead of cluttering up your swimming pool. Put people to work selling the GOP as the One True Path to America Ascendant. Yeah that would be great stimulus. Just create an entire class whose job is year-round election worker.

jerrypap says

My biggest challenge every step of the way has all been related to onerous and typically nonsensical government restrictions - regulations, taxes, and a thousand other government policies that sometimes make it near impossible to get ANYTHING done.

I'm coming to the conclusion that much government regulation is the way that the 1% prevents you from competing with them.

All in the name of the public interest, of course. See this for some examples:

http://www.gresham.ac.uk/print/1789

leoj707 says

rootvg says

I want to see what happens when Republicans take the Senate and White House in November, leaving the largest state in the nation completely without majority representation in either the executive or legislative branches of the Federal government. Most Californians don't yet understand what that will mean but they're about to find out.

Oh, many Californians understand what that would mean, just many Republicans do not.

*hint* - reread the OP pic

This happened during the early days of Bush 43. Republicans decided carrying California was no longer necessary (Florida, Texas, Georgia and the Carolinas became big enough, Electorally speaking) and they thumbed their noses at us. It's gonna happen again.

Re: illegal aliens.
The millions of illiterates working here drives entry level and blue collar wages down.
None of them will ever create any innovation or improvement of production or anything leading to an economic benefit. They are the modern equivalent of slaves, who only benefit the employers/slave owners.
In Mexico, just 33% of adults have finished high school. The percentage is lower among illegal aliens coming to the USA.
They only create profit for the employer/slave owner. The fancy restaurant in Manhattan serving pasta with octupus and bone marrow for $38/plate can afford to pay higher wages to kitchen staff. But, they push the slaves to produce ever more plates ever faster, making the fancy restaurants vastly more profitable.
All of the guys I know who hire illegal aliens cheat everywhere they can themselves in their own businesses and affairs.
I live where there are tons in all types of employment.
If they could vote, they would be Democrats. They get tons of freebies here.

Vicente says

I want MORE AND MORE of the GOP race.

You deserve a pin...

PockyClipsNow says

I won't be donating to patrick.net again until this becomes a REAL ESTATE ONLY site.

Pnet should set up as LLC non-profit 501c..

thunderlips11 says

Let's say an elite Neurosurgeon performs many brain surgeries, and teaches dozens of med students, saves a hundred lives. Over the course of two years, he makes about a million dollars in salary.

If a NS invests cash and property say $100K and builds a $1M business (investment) and sells his/her interest.. his gain is long term capital gains at 15%. His previous income earned is already taxed as personal income tax rates 35%..

Income is one thing capital assets are another..

Yes, taxed at ordinary income...

thunderlips11 says

He is taxed at 35%
Let's say a Hedge Fund invests $300,000 to buy a mansion. Two years later, for market reasons mostly beyond his control, the mansion is sold for 1M.
He's taxed at 15%.

The rental income before its sold, gets allocated to the partners and taxed at 35% ordinary income... later if they sell.. the gains allocated to each partner and recognized as a gain it may be loss. either way.. THEY BOUGHT an CAPITAL Asset.

thomas.wong1986 says
No he gives up his wealth, by paying cash for an interest in ownership.. it may or may not have any gain and mayhave losses.

No, he doesn't "give up" his wealth. He passively invests money with the hope of a big return taken from the work of other people.
But anyway, he also gets to deduct 100% of his losses from his gains. You forgot that part.
..

On capital stock its limited to $3000 per year not 100% against gains and carry over residual losses in future years .. not much to crow about. yes,, they GIVE UP THEIR wealth because they pay in CASH... Talk to the VCs and their investors who lost their shirt on Sylandra or any other failed start up or public company.. and there are many.

My biggest challenge every step of the way has all been related to onerous and typically nonsensical government restrictions - regulations, taxes, and a thousand other government policies that sometimes make it near impossible to get ANYTHING done.

I'm coming to the conclusion that much government regulation is the way that the 1% prevents you from competing with them.

All in the name of the public interest, of course. See this for some examples:

Very interesting. There seems to be a lot of truth to your statement above.

sack says

But the dividends have already been taxed once as corporate tax, taxing it again is probably netting the government more than your 35% (which I doubt many of us are paying).

This is pure pro-rich meme horseshit.

The non rich wage earners get their income quadruple mega taxed by this logic. After all they pay a sales tax, gas tax, state tax, property tax, federal income tax, etc. all on the same salary.

Yes, Your right. 50% of the poor do not pay any direct income tax. But the poor pay a lot of indirect taxes. Many of the poor have cell phones, And line phones. A lot of taxes are paid there. Many of the poor have cable TV, And Dish TV. A lot of taxes are paid there. A lot of poor people drink and smoke, A lot of taxes are paid. A lot of poor people own cars. The poor people pay for car insurance tires gas and traffic tickets,A Lot of taxes are paid there. One of the reasons why people are Poor, Is that they spend All their money every month. The Poor people in this country help to support the Govt. And the Rich....

rootvg says

There's something else going on here that no one's talking about, which is the level of change technology has forced on workplaces and the incredible level of technological illiteracy that's out there especially among the younger Baby Boom set and then in less well off, less well educated parts of the country.

I don't know what you do about that. Maybe you can't do anything.

If you accept that technology will keep improving and doing more and more work with less and less people then you have to accept and plan for a future where there are few if any low/no skill jobs and even the middle skill level jobs have been greatly diminished.

Ideally this could be done through social welfare programs that would guarantee a certain minimum standard of living + shortening the work day and work week so that more people would be able to get work at all to get "nice things". Their free time could be spent with their families, hobbies, or leisure activities.

If this sounds crazy, remember this: early last century the 60 hour work week was the norm and wages were far lower. Today the work week is 40 hours AND the wages are higher. The 40 hour work week has held steady for going on 100 years yet productivity has increased greatly since then, particularly around the 1970's. That is one of the reasons why may have seen me harping on wealth disparity and wages from time to time. The productivity gains that should have been more fairly distributed amongst the general population have instead been going to the rich.

Many people have incredible ideological bias against this sort of thing to put it mildly, and arguments in a public setting are usually framed in the manner of "I AINT' SUPPORTIN' NO WELFARE QUEENS!!!" or even "DUDE JETSONS WAS A CARTOON AND THIS IS REALITY STFU!!!". On top of this the rich have turned themselves into a rentier class so that they may get bigger and bigger pieces of the wealth over time. So right now its looking like we won't see any of that happen in our lifetimes. That may change but I doubt it.

If anything I'd say that we're headed towards a full blown 3rd world fascist state if the political and the economic trends of the last few decades are anything to go by.

That's the thing. In a perfect economy there would be NO jobs.

What people need are goods and services, not "jobs." If everything was automated, no one would need to "work."

That's doesn't mean we'd just sit around on the couch all day. We'd just do stuff that was fun. We'd make artwork and sell it to each other, explore the world, play golf, watch sports, etc.

clambo says

So Patrick says I am the guy on the left. If you know a person on Sec. 8, food stamps, SSI, who is NOT a Democrat, give me his email and I will paypal him a few dollars as a reward.

Go to any rural town in Middle America and say hi to the first person you meet. Odds are you'll owe him a few dollars.

thomas.wong1986 says

On capital stock its limited to $3000 per year not 100% against gains and carry over residual losses in future years

You can write of $3000 per year if you don't have any gains, but it is not limited to $3000 per year.

That is, if you have $100,000 in losses in year 1, you write off $3000 in year 1. If in year 2, you have $150,000 in gains, you only pay 15% of $53,000 in taxes for year 2.

Voting Democrat = Voting Replublican, there is no difference! both parties are corrupt, both parties will sell you out for personal gain! All our representatives have 1 thing in common! they are all rich, and people like pelosi, bush, obama uses insider information for personal gain! Our system will crash because people are more focused on pointing the finger @ Republicans or Democrats, rather than the main problem. Democrats (in CA) are puppets to the public sector unions! Republicans are more interested in saying anything to keep them in power, but doing nothing at all! Everyone in the wellfare system should be put to work in order to get paid! if they can't walk give them an office job, if they can give them a job with cal trans cleaning up the freeways! Put them to work! But no, they stay at home watching their big screens, using their cell phones while collecting their checks!
Obama is killing this country, and the next president will do exactly the same! we are just voting on who we think will crash our system the slowest! Sad times we are living in, but it can and will get worse!

AlfonsoM says

Republicans are more interested in saying anything to keep them in power, but doing nothing at all! Everyone in the wellfare system should be put to work in order to get paid! if they can't walk give them an office job, if they can give them a job with cal trans cleaning up the freeways! Put them to work!

OK, I can see the point of making people work for unemployment checks, but only half time so they still have time to look for a job. So I created a thread about that idea:

http://patrick.net/?p=1210453

Welfare is not the same though. I think it's technically called "Aid to families with dependent children" or something like that, and having those children around means the person getting the check would probably have to pay more for childcare than they would get from working. So in a sense, people on welfare are already working -- in child care for their own children.

So in a sense, people on welfare are already working -- in child care for their own children.

Parenting is definitely a full-time job. That's why I have no problem paying higher taxes than people with children.

"March 21 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama’s largest campaign donors last month included employees of Wells Fargo & Co., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., according to an analysis of Federal Election Commission records."

Bankers are equal opportunity

God Bless America.