patrick.net

EightBall says

It is also far easier to get talent that has experience with Windows.

*snort* talent? Why is it, that every single Windows "expert" I've seen couldn't program 20 lines of script if their lives depended on it? That when confronted with an AD meltdown their response was a wipe & rebuild? Every Windows "expert" I've seen to date can point & click and knows a lot of arcane things to pass tests, and that's all. I work for cheap SOBs who hire people with the right certs on the resume and will work for peanuts, but I suspect that is the norm not the exception.

EightBall says

It is also far easier to get talent that has experience with Windows.

True, but that's only part of it. The development of Windows is more centrally managed, so the Windows administration experience is more cohesive. Linux, by the very nature of it's everyone contribute what you want, is far less consistent and requires a lot of arbitrary knowledge.

So even though Linux is free, which means lots of kids are playing with it, it takes less time to get up to speed with managing a Windows server. The tech is standardized and there's so much literature on it.

That's not to say Windows is completely clean. It has a lot of baggage from the COM and CORBA days, but at least Windows admin all speak the same language so to speak.

Vicente says

Every Windows "expert" I've seen to date can point & click and knows a lot of arcane things to pass tests, and that's all.

I've seen people who don't know crap get hired as sys/network admins. But I've also seen extremely talented people in the same roles. It all depends on the individual.

Vicente says

*snort* talent? Why is it, that every single Windows "expert" I've seen couldn't program 20 lines of script if their lives depended on it? That when confronted with an AD meltdown their response was a wipe & rebuild? Every Windows "expert" I've seen to date can point & click and knows a lot of arcane things to pass tests, and that's all. I work for cheap SOBs who hire people with the right certs on the resume and will work for peanuts, but I suspect that is the norm not the exception.

I have to agree with you especially about scripting - most windows admins fear the black command prompt. Part of that is what you've experienced with paper certs but part of it is that you can get away with point-and-click for 95% of things.

As far as being "cheap" for key positions...I had a guy tell me once that if you get a bunch of $2 baseball players you'll be watching a lot of $2 baseball. Same holds true for just about anything in life. Just reread what you wrote - you complain that the windows admins can't do anything advanced and then say the cheap SOBs hire paper certified boneheads that work for peanuts. That is a big part of the problem in your situation.

Dan8267 says

So even though Linux is free, which means lots of kids are playing with it, it takes less time to get up to speed with managing a Windows server. The tech is standardized and there's so much literature on it.

The "ecosystem" that MS has with technet, MSDN, and their communities is a one-stop-shop for assistance. Sure you can google your questions for Linux but there are so many variations and opinions on how to do things that you can get conflicting answers or the "If you are running kernel x.y.z.1.2.22 and have library version s.t.u.33.55.5 do it this way" - it can be somewhat of a nightmare. Redhat has gone to great lengths to get a similar system going but the whole argument of Linux being free goes out the window and many Linux purists reject Redhat for that reason...

All that being said, Microsoft has made a pretty good business of being "good enough" but not necessarily "the best". They lumber forward at a fairly slow pace in some instances but that is not always a bad thing.

EightBall says

I have to agree with you especially about scripting - most windows admins fear the black command prompt.

Wow, the talent in your area must be different from South Florida. Here any Windows Admin would be using PowerShell scripts. No black command prompt, it's blue.

PowerShell is awesome. No wasting time parsing text. Instead of a text pipeline, you have an object pipeline. You talk native CLR objects. It's way better than any text scripting language.

Dan8267 says

Wow, the talent in your area must be different from South Florida. Here any Windows Admin would be using PowerShell scripts. No black command prompt, it's blue.

PowerShell is awesome. No wasting time parsing text. Instead of a text pipeline, you have an object pipeline. You talk native CLR objects. It's way better than any text scripting language.

Blue or black is all the same to the majority of sysadmins - they have to use the keyboard which is painful when you don't even know how to type properly. They type faster on their iphone than they do on their computer.

Something as simple as executing a remote command in powershell made this one guy look like the character from "The Gods Must Be Crazy" a few months back - I find that a lot of programmers feel that any scripting is "beneath" them and sysadmins would rather test the power line with their tongue than write script. Someone that can operate in both worlds is priceless.

"Linux is fine until you want to install software, then it's a major pain in the ass. Until Linux developers start making their installs as simple and easy as on Windows, Linux is not going to be a mainstream operating system no matter how loved it is by a subset of geeks."

What on earth are you on about? Its as simple as browsing through one of the many software stores now available EG .ubuntu software centre .Installing software has become a simple pick/click/ install .From the free open source stuff to paid proprietary software that can purchased.

So What if that dam developer is making me download a .deb instead ??A quick double click and that .deb file will open in the software centre or gdebi and install itself. Is that any harder than windows .Compiling a program from source is only 4 simple steps. Installing from the command line even easier with a simple sudo apt-get install (program name) all dependencies gathered and installed for you. .

Native Steam is coming to linux,unity 4 game engine is coming to linux,unigene game engine is already here.We are also finally getting some Professional video editing software from light works. Your entire statement that software is to hard to install on linux is simply WRONG and guess what we even have skype.

One thing Windows 7 has going for it is I can go anywhere on the internet and it not kill my computer by installing malware. In fact it's such a pain the balls, that many applications fail to install even when you run as administrator because other related processes, not directly called from the MSI package, in the install process can be unsuccessful.

That being said, there are a ton of things that made the PC the choice platform for most users, are now non existent.

Such as the lack of IO on newer laptops, such as card slots, and firewire ports. Cards that aren't compatible in Win7 box towers, and there aren't even comparable solutions.

Such as Audio and Video production, Gerbil plotter devices ect.
These devices always upgraded to previous versions of Windows.
Now even if they do install, using those devices result in the bluescreen of death.
Otherwise the Platform is stable and never bluescreens under usage with out peripherals.

If Windows continues this trend then I don't see Windows surviving.

It's like Windows went from a huge erector set where almost any configuration was possible as well as available, to Windows being a closed device that is nothing more and never will be, than what you got.

It's why tablets and smart phones are gaining so much in the market.
If your PC is nothing more than over sized glorified Tablet, then what's the point?