patrick.net

It became convenient to yell "racism" in this country because there is a benefit to gain from it and nothing to lose

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

Should the lynchee have just accepted his or her fate?

America has many racists, largely conservatives who are afraid that minorities might just reveal that the white community is not genetically superior to any ethnicity, despite Fox's protestations.

The last thing most racists want to openly acknowledge is that they have institutional advantage. Because, goddamn it, I earned all that I have!

111

leo707 2013 Feb 19, 2:12am

thomaswong.1986 says

curious2 says

It would be very interesting to compare gun violence statistics by race today with statistics from the prohibition era - I suspect they would look quite different.

The Italian mafia was much smaller and very exclusive.. with associates at most 5000 members per family. With 5 major families that would be around 25,000 ... thats why they were taken down in a few decades. All but gone today..

Compared to todays US street gangs ..that would be well over 800,000 ... external links that would grow well over 1 million count organization and growing.

As I am sure you know the murder rate for the past couple of years is at a 50 year low. Also, the murder rate during prohibition was close to double what the murder rate has been sense the year 2000.

Are you telling me that 25,000 organized white people cause almost twice the murder and mayhem than 1,000,000 street gang members?

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FortWayne 2013 Feb 19, 2:20am

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

Should the lynchee have just accepted his or her fate?

Go back to 1865 and complain about lynching then. I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on.

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leo707 2013 Feb 19, 2:57am

CL says

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

Should the lynchee have just accepted his or her fate?

Go back to 1865 and complain about lynching then. I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on.

Putting aside the fact that Trayvon Martin would be alive today if he had been white, and in this very thread foxman should give you reason to believe racism is alive and well in the US...

Sure, lynching is not something that happens today, but unfortunately for James Craig Anderson people are still being killed because they are black (or in Oak Creek, Wisconsin killed for being Sikh) but in this century the method of execution is typically vehicular, dragged or hit.

Is racism as bad as it was in the 70's? No.

Is racism non-existent in 2013? No.

To put things into perspective the US is probably one of the least racist countries in the world today, but we still have a long way to go before race is a relative non-issue. Pretending that we live a a colorblind society where blacks have all the same opportunity as whites is a step in the wrong direction.

As long as racism is still a prevalent force in the US, yes the racism "card" is still going to be played. While the "card" will sometimes get misapplied and overused, there is still enough racism to go around where it gets played in the "correct" circumstances.

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 2:58am

http://newsone.com/2223453/newark-man-forced-to-strip-naked-20-debt/

In my lifetime, blacks have been lynched, and have committed no crime other than being born black. Is there nothing to gain by pointing out racism where racism exists?

This is more a problem to be solved by a guy wearing Lycra and a cape, than a policy failing of our Government and the Majority of the people.

Politicizing a few acts of violence and demonizing All WHITE people because we've got a black president, seems... Well just like I said.

I'm still waiting for those Black men that stripped a white kid nekkid, and whipped him because the boy's father owed them $20 dollars, that just happened last week, to be charged with "Hate Crimes" and called racist. If that can't happen then shut the fuck all ready. We get it, "Racisim" is just a one way street, so the Liberals can push their agenda.

I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on.

We're not talking about racism, just another white guy playing "Get Whitey", nothing to see here move on.

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leo707 2013 Feb 19, 3:05am

I'm still waiting for those Black men that stripped a white kid nekkid, and whipped him because the boy's father owed them $20 dollars, that just happened last weed, to be charged with "Hate Crimes" and called racist.

While I agree that I would like to see blacks convicted of hate crimes when they do indeed attack a victim just because of the race of the victim, but don't you have an actual example of that happening? It seems to me that in your example there was a motivation for the attack other than the race of the victim.

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 3:09am

Any time two white boys whip up on a black or Gay person in this country it's called a hate crime. Even if they said, "This hurts us more than it hurts you" the whole time they did it. And they are labeled Racist, or Bigots.

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TechGromit 2013 Feb 19, 3:22am

Another interest fact is Black on Black crime is far higher. 93% of blacks murdered were done by other blacks. 49% of the murder victims in 2005 were black, as it was pointed out above, since African Americans account for less than 15% of the population, that's a staggering amount, more than three times what it should be.

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leo707 2013 Feb 19, 3:25am

Any time two white boys whip up on a black or Gay person in this country it's called a hate crime. Even if they said, "This hurts us more than it hurts you" the whole time they did it. And they are labeled Racist, or Bigots.

Your feeling that other crimes are mislabeled as hate crimes does not give any more credence to your example.

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CL 2013 Feb 19, 3:25am

Go back to 1865 and complain about lynching then. I'll even give you credit for talking about racism in the mid 70's. Not in 2013 though, time to move on

What about James Byrd?

I guess that's like saying, "terrorists may have attacked the US, but that was a long time ago, so I can't understand why the families and descendants of the victims are still upset".

Then if you decided to punish the victims' families disproportionately compared to non-victims, denied them jobs, and generally looked down on them for no other reason than their families had been victims.

Why harangue the black community?

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FortWayne 2013 Feb 19, 3:31am

Then if you decided to punish the victims families disproportionately compared to non-victims, denied them jobs, and generally looked down on them for no other reason than their families had been victims.

MLK was a victim, you are not a victim get over yourself.

The last thing most racists want to openly acknowledge is that they have institutional advantage. Because, goddamn it, I earned all that I have!

Inheriting wealth isn't racist. America is not about equality of results.

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CL 2013 Feb 19, 3:44am

MLK was a victim, you are not a victim get over yourself.

You missed the point. You're acting like the last crime of murder or oppression based on ethnicity happened during the civil war. That's patently false.

Society is unjust. It is moreso unjust if you're black and in America.

Why is black infant mortality higher in America than in Cuba? Why is black literacy higher in Cuba than America? Why is the rate of incarceration so high here for the black population?

Clearly, there is something in our system that makes it so. Denial of that fact, I'd say, typically means that the denier simply wants to ignore it, perhaps to make themselves feel better.

Are employers color-blind? Or are there preferences in hiring whites over blacks? Why were Asians, Irish and Italians tasked with manual labor, if they were hired at all? Does your ethnicity affect the jobs you are allowed to take? And do the jobs you take affect your health, wealth and class?

C'mon guys. This isn't anything shocking...These are things to fix, not "get over".

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zzyzzx 2013 Feb 19, 3:45am

America has many racists, largely conservatives

America has plenty of racists, they are liberals who support affirmative action laws.

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 3:48am

Society is unjust. It is moreso unjust if you're black and in America.

Not for Haitians and Jamaicans, wonder why that is?

124 anonymous 2013 Feb 19, 3:49am

Why harangue-atang the black community?

Damn leo, that's RACIST!

I hate racists, and I for one am glad that I don't have to interact with them here in my Good Neighborhood with Good Schools

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 3:55am

Are employers color-blind? Or are there preferences in hiring whites over blacks?

Think I could get a Job at Jet Magazine or BET?
My brother and I moved down here in '87, he got out of the Army, and came to NC where I was working as an insulator on a nuclear power plant that was under construction. He told me he was headed down to Ft Lauderdale, and because he was a Vet, his chances of getting hired on at the USPS was great. (Notice he didn't say because he was White?)

Well we came down and he never did get that job, he was told there was a black and Hispanic quota they were mandated to fill. My brother took another job, and was at that job though 4 different buy outs and take overs, moved three times over 25 some odd years, and it ended up being part of Valspar. Which just closed down that division of Gelcoats and Resins last year.

I bet there is not one single person that got hired on at the Post office at the time he applied that is still there. IF I had a company, I would want a 100 employees just like my brother. The USPS lost out on one hell of an Employee in 1987, when they passed my brother over for affirmative action.

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 3:57am

zzyzzx says

post of the year...

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CL 2013 Feb 19, 4:05am

The USPS lost out on one hell of an Employee in 1987, when they passed my brother over for affirmative action.

The USPS is (I believe) the largest or 2nd largest employer of Veterans in the country. Sounds like affirmative action for vets.

Weird that your brother couldn't land a gig there.

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CL 2013 Feb 19, 4:06am

Not for Haitians and Jamaicans, wonder why that is?

Explain that?

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 4:15am

Explain that?

I've never met a Haitian or a Jamaican in THIS country that feels oppressed by White People or that the system is holding them back somehow.
They are just too busy taking advantage of everything this country has to offer. Sure many have to work several jobs, but on average more Haitians and Jamaicans per population, are home owners compared to even Whites in this country.

Why do I say that? Down here in south Florida, most American Black communities are run down shacks that a few may own, but most rent. Where as there are several Haitian Jamaican communities where the majority of the houses are larger than the neighborhood I live in, and the majority owns.

And in the nice gated neighborhoods, the Majority of the Black people there are from the Caribbean islands.

That's not to say there are not poor Blacks from the islands, but then again there's plenty of White Trailer parks down here as well. Do they win a prize for being poor?

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 4:16am

Weird that your brother couldn't land a gig there.

That was actually 1985, although I said '87.

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CL 2013 Feb 19, 4:20am

That's not to say there are not poor Blacks from the islands, but then again there's plenty of White Trailer parks down here as well. Do they win a prize for being poor?

Right. Race and class are tightly correlated HERE. That's not to say all people of the lowest class are black. That's a logic error.

And there are a lot of poor folks in Florida.

As far as BET, I'd say that's an error too. Isn't it owned by Viacom? I'm sure Viacom will be mostly white. I'm not even sure you can call BET truly black programming, or is it programming that white people THINk black people like?

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 4:32am

From what I've seen only Jamaicans with money even make it over to this country. When was the last time you saw a Jamaican refugee boat exodus?
They are either educated or part of a criminal network.
And Haitians knows what sheer desperation is. They didn't risk floating across the Florida straights on a rickety boat that might capsize with hundreds of feet from the coast and drown everyone on board(it has happened many times. Haitians can't swim), to come over here and play poor victim of poverty.

I used to work for two brothers, that came here from Haiti in the early 80s with nothing. Landed in NYC drove a Cab, saved money bought a fleet, sold it. Moved to south Florida started two prepaid phone services. Sold those, bought AM radio stations. Now they own every Caribbean radio station in almost every market in the US.
They also spent a lot of time dabbling in local politics to make sure their and the community needs were being met.

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CL 2013 Feb 19, 5:17am

So, Cap'n reveals a few important points: There is nothing race-specific about genetics and success.

2nd, that those who struggle to get here might actually work harder than those who were born here (immigration plug!).

Lastly, how appealing it would be for racists to conclude, "that Jamaican...he's one of the "good ones", but the existence of a "good one" destroys the whole racist dynamic, n'est-ce pas?

134

Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 5:33am

What ever funny the people most hung up on Race in this country are White Liberals. Everything else is Class and Social issues. That is what Blacks are concerned with, because the truth is, Sam Roberts the belligerent redneck drunk at the end of the street, that sneers at them as he drives his '72 Ford truck past them. Doesn't have one single baring on their status, where they live, the car they drive, where they work, or where they go to school.
He's in the same damn boat they are, so they just call him Cracker as he drives by.

Though that's not to say that the "N" word isn't a good cause for fist-a-cuffs, but then again, so is wearing a basket ball jersey of the opposing team during the conference championships.

Those horrible bastards in their Orlando Magic jerseys please somebody make them stop.

135

FortWayne 2013 Feb 19, 6:56am

Society is unjust. It is moreso unjust if you're black and in America.

Why is black infant mortality higher in America than in Cuba? Why is black literacy higher in Cuba than America? Why is the rate of incarceration so high here for the black population?

Get over yourself, the man running this country is black. Obama is black.

If that's not a sign for some losers to get off welfare and self pitying excuse train to start making a life for themselves there will never be a better one.

136

CL 2013 Feb 19, 7:19am

Get over yourself, the man running this country is black. Obama is black.

If that's not a sign for some losers to get off welfare and self pitying excuse train to start making a life for themselves there will never be a better one.

This wrong on almost all counts:

First, I don't have to "get over myself". I just supplied some facts and asked the questions. What do we do about inequality?

Second, electing a black president does not solve the systemic problems I mentioned.

Third, why do you conflate being black with being on welfare? How does one do that, especially when there is high unemployment?

Fourth, Presidents are not the only entity at the table. There are teabaggers and angry white voters that wouldn't let a President make progress on something as innocuous as infant mortality. They'd say, you just want to give handouts to those dying babies to score votes!

In other words, I don't really understand your points.

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 8:01am

Second, electing a black president does not solve the systemic problems I mentioned.

You didn't outline any systemic problems.
That's like me saying I'm not Rich because I'm not Jewish.
It's an insult to both Jews and non Jews.

Opportunity is one part of a two part unit.
It takes Luck, Experience or Money to take advantage of any Opportunity. Experience and Luck isn't hard to achieve, you just got to put your self out there. You wont gain any experience feeling like a Victim.

I always managed to take advantage of Opportunities soley by Luck or Experience. Mostly Luck, I think me buying this house, was the first time in my life at age 43 where money played a part in me taking advantage of opportunity.
But even then luck had a lot to do with it. I was damn lucky that the market was tanking, and we had an pandering Washington, that was making it easier for me to buy a house, during a time it should have been a lot harder than it was. I mean 3.5% down instead of 20% which has always held me back from buying a house. Except for the bubble years, that was choice.
But I had the money and the steady verifiable income that helped me get the house.
If this were all because I was White, then this would be an all exclusive White neighborhood, which it is not.

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CL 2013 Feb 19, 8:12am

You didn't outline any systemic problems.

Aren't the below systemic?

Society is unjust. It is moreso unjust if you're black and in America.

Why is black infant mortality higher in America than in Cuba? Why is black literacy higher in Cuba than America? Why is the rate of incarceration so high here for the black population?

139

CL 2013 Feb 19, 8:29am

How will we know when it is fixed?

Our president is not white. So what? I will judge him on his actions, not his color.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today!" MLK

I don't judge people by their color but I do judge them by their actions, hygiene, dress, language, and attitude. Sometimes I judge wrong but I do not prejudge simply because of color?

That's great! It would be better if the millions who don't act as you do started. As it is, we are still a long way off.

Maybe we'll know when babies don't die in America simply because they are black. Or when the justice system is colorblind and fair. Or when the Senate doesn't have a dearth of minorities. Or when there are a thousand more black CEOs.

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 8:31am

Why is black infant mortality higher in America than in Cuba? Why is black literacy higher in Cuba than America? Why is the rate of incarceration so high here for the black population?

And this holds all black people back how???????????????????????
The town I was born in, men are likely to be killed by their F250 falling off a jack stand, I turned out OK.

141

CL 2013 Feb 19, 8:42am

CL says

Or when there are a thousand more black CEOs.

Would you settle for 900?

In my opinion the oligarchy wants to perpetuate war. Race war, class war, Vietnam, the war on poverty, Afghanistan, The war on drugs, TERRORISM, all of the wars are just an effort to keep us down, keep us fighting, and to profit off the chaos.

And how better to do that than to make the downtrodden kick those "beneath" them on the ladder?

142 foxmannumber1 2013 Feb 19, 8:47am

https://www.google.com/search?q=haitins+srwn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=4&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=haitians%20drown&pq=haitians%20srwn&cp=24&gs_id=yz&xhr=t&q=haitians+drown+when+boat&es_nrs=true&pf=p&client=firefox-a&hs=p2y&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&oq=haitians+drown+when+boat&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42661473,d.eWU&fp=46c83184b0067790&biw=923&bih=415

Obama is black.

Obama's family on his mother's side is all white people as far as we can tell.

Obama's family on his father's side is all black people as far as we can tell.

Technically speaking he is just as white as he is black.

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Tenpoundbass 2013 Feb 19, 8:52am

Haitians usually don't fare well when their boat sinks or capsizes.

See how many Cubans swim a shore after their boats sink.
In these stories, there's more that swim ashore than parish.

https://www.google.com/search?q=haitins+srwn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=cubans+swim+a+shore+after+boat+capsizes&oq=cubans+swim+a+shore+after+boat+capsizes&gs_l=serp.3...23794.25515.3.25709.8.7.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.4.psy-ab.i2J4Tpcstkk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42661473,d.eWU&fp=46c83184b0067790&biw=923&bih=415

I know I'm being prejudice again.
It is rare when a boat capsizes and even some manage to swim a shore.

https://www.google.com/search?q=haitins+srwn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1&q=Haitian+swim+ashore+after+boat+capsizes&sa=X&ei=-xskUa_dK5PY9QTP7YDYDQ&ved=0CCwQBSgA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42661473,d.eWU&fp=46c83184b0067790&biw=923&bih=415

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Dan8267 2013 Feb 19, 8:54am

zzyzzx says

America has plenty of racists, they are liberals who support affirmative action laws.

Liberals don't support Affirmative Action as it violates the 14th Amendment just like the ban on gay marriage. Liberals, by definition, believe in equality under law for all citizens. Liberty for all.

Once again, the right fails to realize that American "left" is just an arbitrary set of political beliefs just like the American "right" and neither has anything to do with the philosophy of liberalism, which means the same thing everywhere in the world.

145

CL 2013 Feb 19, 9:12am

I did some quick Googling and was shocked about the statistics on black infant mortality:

Thanks for that. Yes, it is shocking!

No matter the cause, it can't be called anything but systemic. I don't believe the war on poverty can be blamed, but if it is, I'd change that too.

Seems to me that before the War on Poverty, blacks were slaves. Then were allowed to take menial jobs (the best jobs may have been as porters on cross-country trains). Today they are experiencing high incarceration rates, high unemployment, inferior medical treatment, inferior education, etc.

Better than slavery? Sure. That's a low bar.

146

CL 2013 Feb 19, 9:23am

o This black/white disparity in infant death rates has either held steady

or widened since 1980

And again, we should note that these children had the MISFORTUNE of being born black in America.

147 MMR 2013 Feb 19, 9:27am

All the Haitians and Jamaicans I know are from upper middle class neighborhoods and future Doctors who work hard.

I've never met a Haitian or a Jamaican in THIS country that feels oppressed by White People or that the system is holding them back somehow.

148 MMR 2013 Feb 19, 9:31am

I don't know about Haitians, but in general, people native to Caribbean countries don't really go to the beach and many never learned to swim. Rather, that's what Americans and Europeans do when they go to those countries.