patrick.net

Yes, its very logical. Normal people would get along quite nicely without the highest GDP, as long as the liberal trash was removed.

The way to encourage illegal aliens to go back to their respective countries:
1. Enforce e-verify for all employers.
2. notify them of how many illegal workers they have
3. give several months notice of fines beginning
4. fine employer $1000 for each illegal employee after grace period ends
5. allow illegal alien to claim $1000 upon proof of return to his home country.
I grew up in New York and New England. I had never seen a Mexican until I first visited California in 1979.
The last time I visited NYC, there were thousands of illegal aliens.
The typical fancy restaurant in Manhattan that has a millionaire owner employs them in their kitchens. The restaurant owner friends of Anthony Bourdain selling a plate of octopus pasta for $38/plate can surely afford to hire legal workers.
The reason people hire illegals is their greed.
If the millions of illegals working here today were gone, wages would immediately RISE as competition for American workers would increase. Supply and demand works in labor markets as in any other free market.
In-n-out Burger succeeds, and has no illegal alien workers. McDonald's hires illegal aliens. What would happen if McDonald's had to hire legal workers? McDonald's would simply 1. become less profitable 2. stock value would fall 3. the customer would maybe see more In-n-out burger places and fewer McDonald's.
The previous slave owners would say "who will pick the cotton?"
Today the slave owners say "who will pick the lettuce? who will wash the dishes?" ETC.
Most of the illegals are illiterates who have not finished high school in Mexico. (33% of adults in mexico graduate high school).
The Mexican economy is growing and there is now 5% unemployment there. College education is essentially free in Mexico.
I lived in Mexico before California. I know whereof I speak. I also am bilingual and have many illegal alien acquaintances here.
The nice guy at mcdonald's who sold me my iced coffee today was chatting with me. He has a nice little house down in Cancun.
Oh yeah, why did you think these guys don't have anything?
Another girl I know very well had saved up tons of dough. She would build a small place in her home town and rent it out. She has more income than an American with $100K in a bond fund.
She recently was bummed because she "lost" $10,000 she had stashed. She suspects her mexican roommate.
Anyway, they do 1. not pay taxes 2. depress wages 3. cost a fortune in social services, education, law enforcement, jails, hospitals, schools are not free.
Another girl I know in Santa Cruz was a street urchin who came here and got into the drug scene. ALL of the drugs are sold by Mexican illegals. Go visit Corcoran, Soledad, etc and see the illegals.
I could go on but there is really zero economic benefit to having the illegals here. It also doesn't benefit society in any way to have a huge lawless group here, it sets a bad example.

[...]

well ... if having 20 million invaders flow into your country and start breeding like crazy, hugely impacting all public services, was such a great idea, more countries would do it. And, if allowing the invasion is the answer, why stop now? We should just open up the borders and have free entry.

But, if those are bad ideas, then removing the invaders and occupiers, and their spawn, must be visited as a possible fix.

The time is wasted. Prop 187 was the last hope to avoid the occupation of California.

that may be true, but the debt the social services and public services are racking up will hurt alot longer and alot more folks. I think it would be much better to pay now, vs hand over debt to the next 3 generations.

Honest Abe says

Step two: deport all liberals
Problem solved.

This is the most blatantly fascist idea I've ever seen proposed by someone who is ostensibly an American.

Sickening.

also impossible because there is no way to prove who is what. Deep breath.

Bap33 says

also impossible because there is no way to prove who is what.

"The State Department is infested with communists. I have here in my hand a list of 205—a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department."

Joe knew where to start.

msilenus says

This is the most blatantly fascist idea I've ever seen proposed by someone who is ostensibly an American.

Abe is the most hateful ignorant poster to this forum. He is 100% ruled by fear, igorance and hate.

If you asked him to define who the non-libruls are and what they stand for he would give you some gibberish about about sound money, the constitutions and possibly the rule of law.

But if asked to consider on what the non-libuls are actually up to:

kentm says

Opiinion piece from the Washington post,

Abe would run away from even thinking about it. It would interfere with his fantasy about "libruls" (aka sane moderates).

Bap33 says

also impossible because there is no way to prove who is what. Deep breath.

Bab, I was engaging with what he said on a level other than the practical.

What Abe was suggesting --purging his political opposition-- is elementally evil. It is the stuff of fascism. The very suggestion that it be done in these United States, to anyone, is profane.

same can be said of special laws for special chosen groups too.

No. No it cannot. You can be against affirmative action (for example) without putting it on the same level as mass deportation of political opponents.

One of these things may be misguided, but the other is evil.

The deportation of political, or any other American, opponents is not logical. I'm sure it is just frustration being vocalized. In the same way a person yells. "i'm gonna kill that dog!!" when they step in a land mine in the dark, in the living room, bare footed. Just frustration.

Yes. Just like that. I can't count the number of times I was having a heated political debate that ended with "Just wait --all you fuckers are going up against the wall."

That does happen in some places, in some times. Not here. Not now. That is not because we are intrinsically diferent from the human beings of those other places and times. We are not.

Aren't conservatives the ones who are supposed to feel comfortable with black-and-white issues? Who acknowedge that evil exists in the world? Who value decorum and sensibility? Who believe restraint is an important value in public discourse? Who think culture is important, because it shapes and constrains the space of behavior?

I suppose not here, and not now. That doesn't scare the hell out of me, yet.

I can see the pro-Obama crowd doing sweeps to remove weapons from us racists homophobic Christian trash. I honestly can.

Bap33 says

I can see the pro-Obama crowd doing sweeps to remove weapons from us racists homophobic Christian trash. I honestly can.

Two things should immediately jump out about this contention:
1) This is not a purge in the sense under discussion. You're talking about possessions, not human beings.
2) This is a fantasy. Something that only exists in your head. You're being honest about what is in your head, but that doesn't move it out of your head.

If you ever see a liberal (or anyone else) advocating for what you're fantasizing about, well, give them a piece of your mind. Nothing wrong with that; much as I'm calling out Abe. Not based on what I dreamed he might say, but based on what he actually said.

Obviously my answer is more jovial, but...

Detail all the realtors and bankers instead.

Bap33 says

BArry did say, about white policemen doing their duty, "those cops acted stupidly!" .. and he said that because Lord Barry did not feel the law should be applied to a certian fellow.

It's showing again...

you may wanna subscribe to GBTV and ready yourself to find anything false in what Beck is trying to get people to hear. Beck is 100% right. You are a very smart person, go read The Blaze or spend a few bucks and get GBTV. If there is something not correct I would trust you to share it.

Bap33 says

you may wanna subscribe to GBTV and ready yourself to find anything false in what Beck is trying to get people to hear. Beck is 100% right. You are a very smart person, go read The Blaze or spend a few bucks and get GBTV. If there is something not correct I would trust you to share it.

I have not bothered to check-in on Beck after he left his FOX "news" show. While on FOX he routinely made claims that were verifiable as false. While he did sneak in a truth here and there usually at his best he would only tell a half-truth/half-lie (these actually are often times the worst kind of lies).

Here are some examples of fact-checking of Beck:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/glenn-beck/

Perhaps he has turned over a new leaf with his new show, but I somehow doubt it.

Beware of things that feel true. That delightful sensation is the heart fucking with the head. Only one of those organs is any good at critical thinking.

Honest Abe says

Many people, especially you, refuse to believe that America has been fundamentally changed...for the WORST.

I think that this is the thing that most on this board actually agree with, whether they be liberal, conservative or crackpot tinfoil hat crazy.

We just disagree on the cause of the decline.

msilenus..."Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Honest Abe says

But one day, when all our freedoms are gone, complements of level headed, reasonable liberals in big government, it'll be too late.

Do you actually live on the same planet as the rest of us? Bush and Reagan did more to strip away freedom and invalidate the constitution than all the "liberal" presidents in the history of the republic. Obama, who is trying very hard to be Bush III, is working very hard to get into that class but he's got a long way to go.

msilenus says

Beware of things that feel true. That delightful sensation is the heart fucking with the head. Only one of those organs is any good at critical thinking.

Where's Bap ?

marcus says

Where's Bap ?

Probably watching Glen Beck, letting his heart do all the critical thinking.

guys, everyone knows it is the liberal/progressive/leftist side of the mind that does stupid stuff that feels good. Dope smoking, for example. Welfare, invasion of mexicans, and not keeping score in youth sports. Those who want an equal result, and not an equal chance, are working from feeling and not from thought. I'm pretty sure I go with the thought process with an anchor based on the moral absolutes that I understand from God's Word, and the moral absolutes that Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, and Co wrote down. I'm not perfect, but in persuit of perfection I will find greatness - right?

So far, Beck is 100% correct, until you take apart something that he put together and published as fact, he stays 100% correct. You are just attacking him out of feelings and emotion!! lol . It is time to do some homework fellas .. go prove Beck wrong on the facts he has posted in the past 6 months ... ready, go!!

Bap33 says

So far, Beck is 100% correct, until you take apart something that he put together and published as fact, he stays 100% correct

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that Beck is 100% correct with the exception of the many times that he just makes shit up, or otherwise uses half truths to make ridiculous inferences ?

ok, here is a link to the news I hear Beck talk about.
http://www.theblaze.com/
And his pay-site, GBTV has stuff he said.
Please post a link and the counter to something Beck has said in the last 6 or 8 months that you can prove (or even just "feel") is incorrect. Please. I want to see what it is you find Beck has been wrong about. Please. I may have missed something.
A link. Something. Please.

Beck proved to me beyond a doubt that he's an obnoxiously imbecilic asshole years ago. I'm not going to listen to him. He lost all credibility to such a degree that nobody pays attention to him enough to list his daily or weekly whoppers. He's a fucking joke and always has been.

Even if he has better writers now, the very fact that he was willing to say the crazy shit he used to say is enough to convince me to ignore him. The fact that you have even a shred of respect for him tells me I need to stop this Bap. You're polite and all but man, you really are....well nevermind.

Bap33 says

Please post a link and the counter to something Beck has said in the last 6 or 8 months that you can prove (or even just "feel") is incorrect.

Ah, haha, so all his piles of well documented lies older than 8 months don't count? He has been telling huge lies for years, but all the sudden he is 100% honest over the last 8 months?

Mmmmhmmm... yeah... please tell me you realize how ridiculous that sounds.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/cWi182CMJY8&feature=player_embedded

There's a Communist in the White House.

Honest Abe says

There's a Communist in the White House.

She seems to have a very poor grasp on what constitutes as strong evidence to support a "supposition". That and not understanding what a communist is. So yeah, I think she was right about this line.

"maybe I am just idiotic"

Bap,

Beck's network is behind a pay wall. I'm not going to pay the man. I'm not going to put myself on his mailing list by signing up for a trial. But I will google him. Sure. Are the first two paragraphs of this piece an accurate account of the beginning of last Monday's show?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/04/behind-the-paywall-at-glenn-becks-confounding-web-tv-network/256328/

If so, that would correlate with what jumped out at me from a cursory inspection of his news site: much of what seems to get posted there isn't news. I don't know what Louis Farrakahn or Jon Lovitz is saying. No one sane cares what they're saying. These are people who have no influence or power or credibility. The first because he's a loon, and the second because he's a has-been entertainer. (When I dared to look at the Lovitz piece, the content of what Lovitz was saying was very different from what I was expecting based on the title of the piece. He wasn't "doubling down" on an attack on Obama, he was expressing incredulity that anyone gave a shit about what he had said about Obama. How self-aware of Lovitz.)

Something like a third of the stories on that site right now are about Farrakahn. It's as if Michael Moore came up with a network that devoted an enormous chunk of its time to lambasting whatever insanity Terry Jones or the WBC is saying. The rest of the world is ignoring these voices. To respond to them is to burn straw men. The response can't be taken as serious because it's unnecessary.

This is the most I've ever been exposed to him. And it's not much. But it seems like Beck's product is terrible analysis of often-irrelevant and sometimes-misframed information. If that's not wrong, then I'm not sure what use there is in being right.

msilenus says

Are the first two paragraphs of this piece an accurate account of the beginning of last Monday's show?

Well, it sounds like he is shoveling the same tripe that he did at FOX "news" so it would be consistent.

msilenus says

But it seems like Beck's product is terrible analysis of often-irrelevant and sometimes-misframed information.

Yeah, there is not way I am going to pay Beck to listen to his propaganda and it sounds like he is doing just fine without my $10/month. Your analysis however does sound pretty much like all his stuff I have seen on FOX "news" though.

#1) The site has free try-out going on right now. Go check.
#2) I figured a time frame that was not under the Fox News situation, that is the only reason I placed a time on the suggestion.
#3) You're saying Beck is not correct NOW -- in the present -- so, please show me what he is saying about the current geo-political world, progessives, liberals, LOrd Barry, anything that he says .. pick something .. anything .. and share with me where it is wrong/lie. Anything from Beck's network. Please. I am not looking to argue, I'm asking you to show me why I should not agree with Beck. So far, I feel as he feels, and see what he sees. Help me. SHow me what it is you know and see. Please. Thanks.

Bap33 says

#2) I figured a time frame that was not under the Fox News situation, that is the only reason I placed a time on the suggestion.

Has is message changed after leaving FOX? From what I have read on theBlaze it does not seem to have changed. Why would you think that his rampant dishonest claims would have changed? Did he suddenly come up with honest well reasoned arguments to support his outrageous claims? Some how I doubt it and quite frankly it is not worth my time to sift through all his garbage and do the research on his claims.

OK how about this:http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2012/01/obama-flouts-constitution-win-over-hispanic-vote/155435

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2012/01/obama-flouts-constitution-win-over-hispanic-vote/155435

Bap33 says

That's mine, not Becks, incase that matters. I'm getting ready for the next 20 years, when "Lord Barry", will be demanded, not requested. lol. Really, it's just mine.

And where do you get that "GROSSLY incorrect and untrue" sentiment? Surely not from 100% honest Glenn Beck (except for all the times he as been horribly dishonest, and only for the past 8 months)...