patrick.net

You forgot a deserted island Swiss Family Robinson tree house.

One more: I worked with a guy who had a cheap house in Davis, CA, but worked in downtown San Francisco, an hour and a half away.

His secret was that he lived on his boat docked in San Francisco during the workweek. Just a couple hundred dollars per month, and a really fantastic dock location.

Brentok3 says

Owning a Mobile Home: kind of a hybrid form of ownership, you normally buy the mobile home and rent the lot. Advantages: relatively low purchase cost, fairly stable community, low maintenance (if the mobile home was kept up by prior owners). Some mobile home parks are 55+, others are all ages. I've lived in mobile home parks with a great sense of community, it's in many ways a more carefree way of living than a single family home.

Right!

For $1500/month in cash flow (including slot rent, chattel mortgage, insurance with earth quake and flood coverage, property tax; and if your state income tax bill is already comparable to your standard deduction net can be somewhat less with deductions for the small mortgage and tiny property tax bill) you can have a 3/2 home with no common walls, 1990s construction with central heat/air and double paned windows, and great Sunnyvale or Mountain View location where nearby 2 bedroom apartments rent for $2100-$2900/month, new town houses are $650K, and 1950s stick-built houses are finally dropping through the 400s.

You can do what you want within the walls (floors, deep bath tubs, whatever) and have the same sort of latitude outside that you'd get with an HOA (one approved fence style, no sheds over 100 square feet, must have living plants out front, no vehicle repairs in your car port, only small trees allowed, whatever flower and vegetable/herb gardens you want).

Would like to see more of these problem solving posts. Sick of the doom and gloom. Thanks to Patrick and Dr Housing Bubble we know the Lies and how the game is rigged . Now let's move forward and work on solutions.

Before you guys rush off and buy mobile homes, you should be aware that you should be very handy in order to do the maintenance.

Mobile homes are a lot like cars, they eventually just wear out.

Condos and townhouses hardly count as "alternatives" to SHF/apartments. What exactly is different about a condo compared to an apartment? A condo *is* an apartment. A co-op is a little different (more stringent requirements to get into one, and you technically own shares in the building rather than your own unit outright) but it's still very similar.

"Before you guys rush off and buy mobile homes, you should be aware that you should be very handy in order to do the maintenance."

C Boy, you are absolutely right! Also make note of the "Park Culture" Family or 55+ Parks. If you like gossip, rumors and nosy neighbors that constantly spread gossip whether it's true or not, then a Mobile Home Park is for you.

The maintenance I can live with, the Culture is another issue!

Slab City. If I have to stay in CA and live really cheap.

Tiny House - Take it with you or park it! AWESOME !!!

http://tinyhouseblog.com/plans/

"We the Tiny House People" The Movie

Watch it here: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/we-the-tiny-house-people/

Honest it's a movie on the lifestyle of Tiny House People. :)

Okie,

You are right. Americans are too spoiled.

I don't see anything wrong with living in a trailer park. Even more so here in the Bay Area where the climate is so mild. Trailer park has always been one of my backup plans.

But a problem with the trailer park life in the Bay Area is that the land underneath them is so expensive that it's only a matter of time before they're all gone.

There is a non-profit outfit that tries to help residents buy out the park
http://www.rocusa.org/

the space rent in the bay area are too high for the mobile homes. renting an apartment is better. you free garage, water, and no repair bills: refrigerator, stove, toilet, etc.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/18/world/la-fg-china-caves-20120318

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XBEEpZmO7Eo#!

You forgot caves. 30 million people in China do it.

Burritos, you need to visit Cappadocia in Turkey. Cave houses, cave hotels... I wouldn't mind living there!

http://www.cappadociacavesuites.com/en/index.asp?lang=en

How does one go about living in Mexico? Where in Mexico is safe and close to transportation? And what are visa requirements, etc? Has anyone looked into Belize?

I am planning to take sailing lessons and buy a boat eventually and live on it. That would be fun once I can work remote part of the time. Just have wifi on the boat and laptop to do work and meet in office couple times of week.

I would love to retire in coastal South America and thats my long term plan as housing is obscene priced in the bay area.

lwoellert says

How does one go about living in Mexico? Where in Mexico is safe and close to transportation? And what are visa requirements, etc? Has anyone looked into Belize?

Getting a work visa to Mexico is very hard unless you work for a huge company.

Cabo San Lucas is the only city I have been to that is relatively safe. Kidnapping is epidemic in all other major cities.

I'm moving into a 2 story cardboard box under an interstate
overpass.

Great, so our IT jobs are literally being outsourced to cavemen.

Meanwhile, China has built cities that are completely empty because the slave-labor population can't afford to buy or rent any apartment.

Amazing isn't it? Maybe they bought into the slogan "Build it and they will Come"

APOCALYPSEFUCK isFrank Sinatra says

Another: occupy an abandoned government building, church, firehouse, police station or factory.

1. Abandoned government building

Generally good as it is easy to defend, but varies depending upon the type of building. You are likely to find small arms and 9mm/10mm ammo.

2. Church

One of the worst places to go to. Impossible to defend and everyone will flock to churches when the zombie apocalypse arrives. Most likely at least a few refuges will be infected and when they turn, everyone dies.

3. Firehouse

Pros: easy to defend, axes are useful as melee weapons and tools.

Cons: Limited food, expandability. Likely no firearms or ammo.

4. Factory

If it is a weapons factory, there is some appeal. Otherwise skip it. There are too many side entrances to board up and defend and few places to take refuge.

5. Prison

Although not mentioned, I felt this was worth discussing. Prisons offer an almost impenetrable fort. Unfortunately, they tend to be populated already. If the guards are still alive, they aren't going to want to let you in and are trained to shoot to kill. If the guards aren't alive, the prisoners will be even more of a threat.

And given our revolving door prison system, infected individuals would almost certainly be mingling in the prison population before the outbreak is noticed. Do you really want to be trapped in a prison full of rapists and zombies?

6. Farm

Another classic. A farm provides more than adequate food for survivors, but is harder to defend. You'll need to build a wall around the settlement area of the farm in the very least.

Population density in rural areas is lower, so overall zombie activity will be less, but beware of roaming hordes as they can wipe out your farm quite easily.

Also, fuel will be an issue, particularly during winter. Without electricity or gas service, you'll have to rely on wood, but having a wooded area near your farm makes it harder to defend and detect hordes early.

7. Customized Base

For the serious surviver, my recommendation is a customized base like this zombie-proof house.

Add some indoor hydroponics and solar panels and a wind turbine, and you got yourself someplace you can just wait in comfort as the zombies die of starvation.

Hey, all life, even undead, needs an energy supply. So unless some mad scientist decides to inject photosynthesizing genes from plants or algae into zombies, you'll be ok, and what are the chances of that happening?

bluesit says

the space rent in the bay area are too high for the mobile homes.

That's what my wife and I thought when we noted that rents were rising, house prices dropping, and considered putting an end to our four year tenure as renters. After more research (although you may have a loan too, it's a small one) we concluded that it's low compared to market rental rates and stick built family home purchase prices in the same areas.

Slot rent for 3 bedroom, 2-bath mobile home with a yard in Sunnyvale: $925/month including water. Total including mortgage, taxes, and insurance (with earthquake coverage, flood coverage, and a replacement value rider for the building): $1550/month before interest and property tax deductions, $1500 after.

Garbage pickup for mobile homes in Sunnyvale is $23/month for a 35-gallon can which is sufficient given the big recycling and yard waste containers that come with it.

Rent for nearby 2-bedroom apartments runs $2100 - $2900/month

renting an apartment is better. you free garage, water, and no repair bills: refrigerator, stove, toilet, etc.

More accurately many of the extras are rolled into the rent.

With current market conditions my rent would be at least $527/month more which exceeds the cost of most individual repairs and dwarfs the amortized costs over expected lifespans.

The last refrigerator, stove, and dish washer I bought were each under $500. I don't think I've ever spent over $20 fixing a toilet. The next double oven range I buy so I can enjoy more of my wife's gourmet cooking is likely to run $1200-$1400; although that's a luxury purchase a land lord wouldn't be making on my behalf.

Carpet I'd like to live on starts at $60/yard which makes $6000 for the areas in my double wide not covered by other materials. It's expected to last 15 years which is $33/month.

The apartment would also mean having common walls with neighbors. I don't plan on doing that again after living beneath a psychotic mother, her demonic child allowed to run wild on the hardwood floors with its shoes on and play with bouncing balls from about 6:30 am to 11:30 pm at night, and dog left home alone for hours to bark until she got tired of the police visits and had it debarked. Although you usually get good neighbors (the couple that lived up there before was quiet) there's nothing stopping them from moving .

In a perfect world I'd prefer a small stick built house with a big media room, large garage workshop, and xeriscaping/decks/gardens replacing front and back yards; although I'm not going to do that at Bay Area prices until after I'm sitting on a couple million beyond what it takes to replace my wages with passive income. I also don't plan to move elsewhere until I don't need to work (where I spend most of my waking hours so it better be good), and even then I don't want a climate that's warmer in the summer or cooler in the winter.

The down-sides are that you're not as liquid as you are with a building + land rental, there are transaction costs (real estate agents want 4% for each agent with a $4000 minimum, and although getting rid of the listing agent is easy the pool of buyers without agents is too small to avoid the extortion), you're somewhat exposed to market fluctuations (although obviously there's less to loose on a $90K double wide than a $500K stick built 1950s ranch house), and there are no legislative prescriptions on the size of rent increases in most Bay Area cities (although 3% has been typical, and some of the parks have had the same owners since the 1970s).

C Boy says

Before you guys rush off and buy mobile homes, you should be aware that you should be very handy in order to do the maintenance.

You can hire people for that, just like with a site built house. With a lot of patience you can find some one who does reasonable work for reasonable rates. Picking contractors at random you can spend 4X as much for similar work or similar money for metaphorical duct-tape and bailing wire (quotes to repair some siding damage ranged from $700 to $2500. At the $700 level work ranged from installing bigger trim pieces which did not match to cover the damage to installing three full sheets of Hardie Panel where the $2500 contractor wanted to do some hokey splicing so he wouldn't need to deal with door trim).

Mobile homes are a lot like cars, they eventually just wear out.

Just like site-built buildings (only the land might last forever). The last 1950s rental I lived in sometimes had crap (literally - tree roots had grown into the sewer line) coming out of the shower drain, single pane windows which leaked and needed replacement, a couple of sink traps which rusted through while I was there, and plenty of cracks in the plaster which I hope were purely cosmetic. The carpet and kitchen vinyl disgusted my wife and I enough that with the land lord's permission at our own expense we yanked the carpet, refinished the underlying hardwood floors, and replaced the vinyl.

Depending on the relative ages and design specifics your problems may be more plentiful with one than the other. The galvanized drain pipes in a 1950s ranch home are past the end of their expected 40-50 year life span; while the ABS pipes under a newer mobile home are not. Particle board siding on a 20 year old mobile home that was neither kept painted and caulked nor covered with a car port awning is more likely to have suffered damage than lumber or vinyl on a site built house; although the cement fiber (Hardie Panel) common on newer mobile homes will outlast them both.

Newer models are also made a lot more like stick built houses of the same vintage.

Something built in 1972 predating HUD standards might have 2x2 exterior stud walls, wood paneling on the inside, particle board sub-floors, and self-contained outlets. I wouldn't want to live there.

Something nice built in 2002 will have 2x6 studs, regular 5/8" drywall that's been taped and textured, plywood subfloors, and regular wiring with boxes. Very similar to the last "luxury" town house I owned that was built at the same time (granite counter tops, 9' ceilings, 2x6 walls, walk-in master closet and big tub in the bathroom) although with a single floor layout.

Somewhere between there's something most people would find liveable without exceeding their pain tolerance on renovations. 1992 with 2x4 exterior walls (2x3 interior, all drywalled with 5/8 firerock where it matters and 3/8" where it doesn't), double paned windows, central heat + air, and some particle board sidings I'd need to deal with was my cut-off.

You need to periodically check (and perhaps correct, although proper drainage avoids problems) the level on mobile homes installed on piers; although otherwise your issues (for better and worse) can be pretty comparable to site built housing.

let alone ourselves wearing out...

I found the article on caves in China very interesting and relevant to this thread.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/18/world/la-fg-china-caves-20120318?source=Patrick.net