patrick.net

@leo,
Have you forgotten my view of Joe Smith? I think your full force attack aimed at me is based on a misunderstanding. I'm not surprised at your willingness to kick shit my way, but I am surprised that you did so on a baseless, or at the very least misunderstood, point. You are much better at this, than that, normally.

Bap33 says

Have you forgotten my view of Joe Smith?

What, you are not open to change?

Bap33 says

I think your full force attack aimed at me is based on a misunderstanding.

Come now Bap, an "attack"? Yes, this is indeed a misunderstanding. I was merely responding to your comment that all religions were evil except "God's" (whoever that is!). Remembering that Joe Smith once said a very similar thing. I was merely suggesting that perhaps the mormon god is the right one.

An attack no... but yes, knowing what a supporter you are of prominent mormons I thought a good-natured ribbing was in order.

As you well know mormons hold Joe Smith in the same regard/level that they hold Jesus, So...

Right from God's mouth --to--> Joseph Smith's ear --to--> Mormon scripture --to--> Romney and Beck's brains.

The quote can be read on the LDS website right here:
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1.19?lang=eng#18

Is Beck a mormon ? I thought he converted to Catholocim. Who am I thinking of,...Gingrich ?

marcus says

Is Beck a mormon ? I thought he converted to Catholocim. Who am I thinking of,...Gingrich ?

Yes, Glen Beck is a mormon. I am not sure who the Catholic convert is though.

thomas.wong1986 says

Its a pity that the above still are happening in Africa... systematic and on a massive scale for the past 30 years.. You will not find it happening in the USA

James Byrd would disagree, if he were still alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Byrd,_Jr.

leoj707 says

Is Beck a mormon ? I thought he converted to Catholocim. Who am I thinking of,...Gingrich ?
Yes, Glen Beck is a mormon. I am not sure who the Catholic convert is though

Yes, Newt converted to Catholicism.

Joe Smith simply wrote a plagiarized version of the OT and added in some Cowboys and Indians ... anyone with a clear mind that has read the Bible will see that the very first time they read The BoM. Joe Smith is a fake, just like Mohamad.

God does not need religion. Religion is man's thing.

I did not pick Romney, he is the only choice I have now due to the "system". I wanted Cain, or anyone as conservative as him. Romney is on the same level as Newt in my opinion. Same shit as on the D side, only with an R stamped in it.

Bap33 says

anyone with a clear mind that has read the Bible will see that the very first time they read The BoM. Joe Smith is a fake, just like Mohamad.

Anyone with a clear mind would not believe a book with talking animals to be true.

there are no talking animals ? man is an animal, and talks. Whales communicate with sound. Heck, squirrels sound the alarm when the cat walks by. But I kid,,,,, I guess you are speaking about the snake talking to Eve? That was before the flood. Maybe all the talking snakes, or the people that spoke snake, were allowed to die off in the flood? Next.

By the way, I did not say one must believe the Bible to be a Holy book, or even to be true in any way, to see my point about Joe Smith's fairy tale. I said what I meant to say. Anyone with a clear head that read the Bible would see the the plagerism of Smith's tale.

Bap33 says

um, so, um, you just said that people screw each other when they know they have the chance ... and I suggested that man is normally an ass hole (unless taught morals and follow them). So, I think we are close to the same thing

Your hypothesis that man is non-altruistic unless taught (acted on by outside social, political, or religious forces) is easily disproved and has been many times. Altruism, the act of an individual performing an action that costs the individual while benefiting only others, is widespread throughout nature. Altruism is clearly shown in all apes, meerkats, vampire bats, dolphins, and many other species. In fact, just about all mammalian species and many intelligent, social non-mammals behave altruistically.

Altruism is an invention of evolution that helps species that live in social groups maximize their chances of survival. There are great practical benefits to altruism. Hence, altruism, like selfishness, is instinctive. Culture may enhance or diminish these tendencies, but those tendencies are the result of nature.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/N6dTU7KVpsg

http://www.amazon.com/The-Selfish-Gene-Edition---Introduction/dp/0199291152
http://www.amazon.com/The-Moral-Animal-Evolutionary-Psychology/dp/0679763996/

Bap33 says

I think morality is also about personal accountablity, responsiblity,

Nope. Personal responsibility and accountability are important traits in the modern world. However, they are independent of morality. Consider this thought experiment. Image you are on a deserted island. You could be responsible or not. You could take care of your survival and be pro-active, or you could starve to death. However, there is nothing moral or immoral that you could do because there are no other people or intelligent animals around.

Morality is all about interactions with other sentient and quasi-sentient beings. Personal responsibility is not.

Bap33 says

Doing the right thing, when noone (but God) will ever know the difference .... that is one of my favorite things.

If a man does the right thing because he thinks an all-power entity is watching and keeping a checklist, then he isn't being moral. He is simply looking out for his own best interest. The existence of the belief in god undermines morality. The thief that refrains from mugging a person on the street because a cop is watching isn't being moral.

Carl Pham says

As far as I know, Republicans are promising to repeal Obamacare, and I have yet to hear of any specific proposal to put in its place.

Obamacare should be repeals and restarted from scratch, but not by the Republicans. They are the reason Obamacare sucks. The Republican plan is to make health care a privilege for the ruling class alone. The middle class ceases to exist as it moves into the ranks of the poor who get no health care. Life becomes cheap, and as a result, labor becomes cheap.

zzyzzx says

So, if I understand you correctly, you are FOR socialized medicine when it's implemented by Democrats, but AGAINST it when it's implemented by Republicans?

Insurance, by definition, is the socialization of the costs of what is being insured. Socialized medicine is what we have in the status quo and what all alternatives are. That's not the issue. The issue is how things are socialized.

Real health care reform requires several things.

1. Transparent honest pricing that does not vary from individual to individual. This means we need a single-payer system, a centralized national clearinghouse.

2. Near zero economic profit for all forms of insurance. This means near 100% efficiency in the insurance market, whether it is done by private business, government agencies, or non-profit institutions. This is almost impossible to get without a public option.

3. A complete divorce of health care and insurance from employment.

4. Medical tort reform that reduces frivolous lawsuits while compensating true medical malpractice victims. This greatly affects the malpractice insurance that all doctors, including good and compassionate ones must carry and charge their customers for.

5. A comprehensive, national software system for all hospitals and private practice that reduces administrative costs to near zero. It can be tied into the clearinghouse, but it is an independent system. I could build such a system for a mere 100 million dollars and five years. It would save our nation about $182 billion a year. That's a 182,000% return every year for all eternity. Why the fuck is no one paying me to do this?

rootvg says

Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Obama aren't Democrats anyway. That party ceased to exist as of 1968. Today's Democrats are Greens, with their embrace of rabid environmentalism, endorsement of legalized perversion, the right to kill unborn babies

Pretty much, yes. The Democrats represent rich childless folks that go to Whole Foods and live on the West Coast and in Boswash. The Republicans represent Corporate America and Big Finance.

Everyone else is skrewed.

wthrfrk80 says

rootvg says

Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Obama aren't Democrats anyway. That party ceased to exist as of 1968. Today's Democrats are Greens, with their embrace of rabid environmentalism, endorsement of legalized perversion, the right to kill unborn babies

Pretty much, yes. The Democrats represent rich childless folks that go to Whole Foods and live on the West Coast and in Boswash. The Republicans represent Corporate America and Big Finance.

Everyone else is skrewed.

I go to Whole Foods all the time. No, we don't have kids.

evilmonkeyboy says

I personally wish they would though so America could get back to becoming the greatest country in the world again.

You're kidding right? When was the USA ever becoming the "greatest country in the world?" That's utopian BS.

Get real. It's all about the money.

Dan8267 says

Reader says

I just saw a bumber sticker that went,

"Are You Losing The Debate? Just Shout Racist And You Will Silence The Opposition."

Reader

False accusations of racism and false accusations of race baiting are easily disproved through transparency.

Yes, so true it is too bad many don't remember that fact.

Bap33 says

Anyone with a clear head that read the Bible would see the the plagerism of Smith's tale.

You don't even need much of a clear head to see the plagerism. Many passages of the BoM are an almost word-for-word copy of the OT.

Bap33 says

I did not pick Romney, he is the only choice I have now due to the "system".

Yes, our system always seems to be a choice of the lesser of two evils rather than the better of two good candidates.

That said there are always two choices who have a legitimate chance of winning.

I find it interesting that you are choosing to put your trust and faith in a candidate who...

1. Is lacking the "clear head" (as you put it) to see that Joesph Smith's story is a clear fraud.

2. Believes scripture that calls your religious beliefs an abomination (yes, the same word used in the bible to refer to homosexual behavior) and corrupt.

3. In addition mormons believe that someone, like you, who would write such anti-mormon statements is inspired by the devil to do so.

In short you are supporting a candidate, who will lead the entire country, who thinks you are a Satan inspired corrupt abomination. Ummm... yeah... you must really hate Obama for some reason.

It is also interesting that you pay Glen Beck, another mormon who feels the same way about you, fill your head with any idea that Mr. Beck seems fit.

wthrfrk80 says

You're kidding right? When was the USA ever becoming the "greatest country in the world?" That's utopian BS.

Get real. It's all about the money.

That is my point exactly, Americans are fat and lazy. We can't do math and science because it's hard. We don't even remotely compete with the rest of the world in education anymore. Yet, we can't grasp why health care cost are going up when eating a piece of broccoli is unAmerican.

good thing he is running for POTUS and not Pope/King/Rabbi/Pastor. Right?

Lord Barry got a shot at the job based on zero life/work history. Romney will get his shot with loads of life/work history. I don't expect much to change. As soon as an R gets in, Code Pink, body counts, and the Militant Sexual Deviant Nation demanding school kids be taught how Steve bangs Larry, will be on every media outlet 24/7. Then AIDS and StemCell research will be front page ... then Global Warming ... then energy ... the same crap the libs use each time to control the conversation (and oddly, these issues have been awefully quiet for Lord Barry). I doubt we will see Romney tell the media, "The Constitution and the Congress are not doing what I want them to do so I am doing it myself". I doubt Romney voted "present" 80% of the time he was on the job. I doubt Romney will be golfing as much (not even half as much, bet). I doubt Mrs. Romney will have long lavish vacations on the public dime (and every dime she does spend will be disected on NBC Nightly). I just think the double standard in place in the American mass media, as well as the public education system and legal system, will continue. And I think the R-side is just as much a part of the cancer killing America as the D-side is. Read that last line again before you rip my eyeballs out - again.

We should annex Mexico soon.

Reader says

You cannot be serious? Transparency tells me otherwise.

Transparency tells you what? That the GOP doesn't spend more than the Democrats?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/obama-most-fiscally-conservative-president-in-modern-history/254658/

Bap33 says

Maybe all the talking snakes, or the people that spoke snake, were allowed to die off in the flood? Next.

By the way, I did not say one must believe the Bible to be a Holy book, or even to be true in any way, to see my point about Joe Smith's fairy tale. I said what I meant to say. Anyone with a clear head that read the Bible would see the the plagerism of Smith's tale.

LOL... you crack me up. For some reason in your head it is completely okay for a snake to talk to a person if it happened before the "flood". I can't wait to here why it's okay to believe that a donkey talked to Saul/Paul after the "flood" in the NT.
So my statement stands as well:
Anyone with a clear mind would not believe a book with talking animals to be true.
Thus, people with a clear mind don't waste their days reading the bible.

My apologies, I thought you were serious.

I also thought you lived in a kid's closet in Quahog, RI. When did you move to San Jose?

wthrfrk80 says

I also thought you lived in a kid's closet in Quahog, RI. When did you move to San Jose?

Yeah, there was just no money in that. Moved out to SJ about two years ago.

JodyChunder says

this is becoming a very trendy way of saying 'a fucking shitload more.'

We'll see that term being used more in scientific journals:

"The Higgs-Boson particle is a fucking shitload larger than we anticipated..."

It might be like in the movie Idiocracy.

CL says

Reader says

You cannot be serious? Transparency tells me otherwise.

Transparency tells you what? That the GOP doesn't spend more than the Democrats?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/obama-most-fiscally-conservative-president-in-modern-history/254658/

no, Obama isnt spending because of gridlock from GOP, which is a good thing!

thomas.wong1986 says

no, Obama isnt spending because of gridlock from GOP, which is a good thing!

Why didn't the GOP keep spending down when they ran all branches of Government, but had no fiscal crisis to thwart?

Their reputation as fiscal conservatives is imaginary, unless it benefits them politically.

agreed 100%. GOP does not equal conservative.

evilmonkeyboy says

a donkey talked to Saul/Paul after the "flood" in the NT.

never seen Shriek? lol

wthrfrk80 says

The Higgs-Boson particle is a fucking shitload larger than we anticipated..."

I see football field used as a metric in scientific periodicals and journals often enough (and yes, JC reads science ..the high desert ain't all fun n games all the time)

Bap33 says

never seen Shriek? lol

That sentence doesn't make sense on any planet in our solar system, Sorry, but you live in America! Learn the language!!

Bap33 says

you dipshit

Comment deleted for directly insulting another user.

Repeated offenses will get your whole account deleted.

dang ... you know what, my mistake. I was lost in the moment. Wont happen again.

Bap33 says

dang ...

I am working on my first million little man. What kinda big deals you got lined up?

just your sister

Bap33 says

just your sister

My sister is a 200 pound diabetic whore. You can have her bub.

Hi Marcus,

I'm a lifelong Republican. You make a good point. It is not possible to just repeal the mandate and have a financially sound system. However, I don't think the system is financially sound as passed either.

Pre-existing condition coverage is fine for those with diseases that cannot be avoided. However, the overwhelming amount of cost for "pre-existing" condition coverage is going to go to those who are obese, abuse drugs or alcohol, or make risky life choices. Obamacare is ultimately a big tax on those that have discipline in their food and lifestyle choices. Thus I think it is unfair and taxing people even more who make good choices is not good for the economy.

Republicans rarely talk about the 2nd major problem with Obamacare and that is the new insurance company 15% limit on profit minus non-medical expenses. The net effect of this part of the law will cause insurance companies to merge, effectively eliminates any new competition in the medical insurance business, and then turns the remaining insurance companies into pseudo-government controlled entities. This is why the medical insurance company stocks have soared since the passage of Obamacare. The wealthy investors really like the idea of companies with guaranteed customers by the government, 15% profit limit, and no new future competition, and big mergers upcoming with very low cost debt to finance the mergers -- a much better deal than T-bills or muni bonds.

On the mandate - I suspect that Democrats will offer cash payments to folks so they opt in. If they don't the youth are going to find themselves that much further behind financially. It is quite ridiculous that the youth who already get screwed with the massive wealth transfer to the elderly and federal employees are going to get screwed again.

Cheers

"Obamacare is ultimately a big tax on those that have discipline in their food and lifestyle choices. Thus I think it is unfair and taxing people even more who make good choices is not good for the economy."

Who paid for those people BEFORE Obamacare? Who's paying for them today?

Hi Marcus,

I'm a lifelong Republican. You make a good point. It is not possible to just repeal the mandate and have a financially sound system. However, I don't think the system is financially sound as passed either.

Pre-existing condition coverage is fine for those with diseases that cannot be avoided. However, the overwhelming amount of cost for "pre-existing" condition coverage is going to go to those who are obese, abuse drugs or alcohol, or make risky life choices. Obamacare is ultimately a big tax on those that have discipline in their food and lifestyle choices. Thus I think it is unfair and taxing people even more who make good choices is not good for the economy.

Republicans rarely talk about the 2nd major problem with Obamacare and that is the new insurance company 15% limit on profit minus non-medical expenses. The net effect of this part of the law will cause insurance companies to merge, effectively eliminates any new competition in the medical insurance business, and then turns the remaining insurance companies into pseudo-government controlled entities. This is why the medical insurance company stocks have soared since the passage of Obamacare. The wealthy investors really like the idea of companies with guaranteed customers by the government, 15% profit limit, and no new future competition, and big mergers upcoming with very low cost debt to finance the mergers -- a much better deal than T-bills or muni bonds.

On the mandate - I suspect that Democrats will offer cash payments to folks so they opt in. If they don't the youth are going to find themselves that much further behind financially. It is quite ridiculous that the youth who already get screwed with the massive wealth transfer to the elderly and federal employees are going to get screwed again.

Cheers

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Jim.

JMcDonald says

However, the overwhelming amount of cost for "pre-existing" condition coverage is going to go to those who are obese, abuse drugs or alcohol, or make risky life choices

I don't see this. First off I don't see this as the most expensive part of preexisting conditions coverage. If someone is obese or an addict without coverage now, they end up getting expensive care anyway, usually too late (maybe more expensive), often starting in the emergency room, and paid for by the rest of us anyway. It needs to be paid for in the same way all health care is paid for, which is more transparent and will lead to hospitals being more accountable for what they charge.

Meanwhile the diseases of children or adults that end up being covered because of pre-existing conditions coverage are hugely important, and I believe they should be covered as do a majority of people. The same is true for ending lifetime caps.

There isn't enough talk about the fact that without everyone insured, pre-existing condition coverage makes no sense. Otherwise everyone would wait to be sick to buy insurance. Romney understood this in Massachusetts. This is not even to mention paying for it, which the mandate helps with.

As for consolidation of ins companies, I don't know about that. I was for single payer and still am. Medicare for all with optional supplemental policies seems to me to be a no brainer. Medicare is already set up to pay for the most difficult and costly end of life care for everyone (with supplemental ins ).

It's an indictment of our political system and the degree to which it's owned by corporations that this solution couldn't even get serious consideration.

As for the youth question. It does seem a little unfair, that this generation of say 28 year olds are forced to buy something that previous generations did not. I don't like that but it's part of the problem's solution. This type of thing often happens when a new system starts.

evilmonkeyboy says

Bap33 says

Maybe all the talking snakes, or the people that spoke snake, were allowed to die off in the flood? Next.

By the way, I did not say one must believe the Bible to be a Holy book, or even to be true in any way, to see my point about Joe Smith's fairy tale. I said what I meant to say. Anyone with a clear head that read the Bible would see the the plagerism of Smith's tale.

LOL... you crack me up. For some reason in your head it is completely okay for a snake to talk to a person if it happened before the "flood". I can't wait to here why it's okay to believe that a donkey talked to Saul/Paul after the "flood" in the NT.

Just out of curiosity, where does Paul's donkey talk to him?

There is a talking donkey in Numbers somewhere, some prophet off to curse Israel, donkey gifted w/speech by an angel equipped, IIRC, with a flaming sword. (Never understood that whole flaming sword business. I mean if you're an angel, shouldn't a plain old ordinary sword be enough for you to do what needs doing?) After the flood, but still in the OT, not NT.

marcus says

It needs to be paid for in the same way all health care is paid for, which is more transparent and will lead to hospitals being more accountable for what they charge.

not being a nitpick marcus, but this sentence really caught my eye. All health care is paid for by people that pay in more tax than they take out. About 5% of the tax base. I would rather see the medical complex have to charge prices that can be paid - a market price, for lack of better terms. It seems that most medical fees and wages are just made up from whatever number those who choose them feel they can get (a little bit like teacher wages .. normally 200% of the average wage in their area). There is no market at work, is there? Anyways, I am all for making the medical complex explain their fees if I have to pay for everyone's care.

Elwood P Dowd says

Just out of curiosity, where does Paul's donkey talk to him?

There is a talking donkey in Numbers somewhere, some prophet off to curse Israel, donkey gifted w/speech by an angel equipped, IIRC, with a flaming sword. (Never understood that whole flaming sword business. I mean if you're an angel, shouldn't a plain old ordinary sword be enough for you to do what needs doing?) After the flood, but still in the OT, not NT.

Yeah I was wondering about that too. I never remember anything about St. Paul talking to a donkey from my days in Sunday school.

But it seems we have two different conversations going on in this thread.