patrick.net

Dan8267 says

He dies sinless and goes to heaven where he enjoys eternal bliss. Some punishment.

yes he does, and so does anyone else that belives in God, and accepts that Jesus covered all debts. Including you and me. As for the punishment, it is a crime in this world and a punishment in this world to keep a value of life high enough to be worth the trouble. Notice how easy murder and death are becoming to accept these days? Those chopped heads of mexico are here now. Ready for it in SanJose? Better get ready.

Bap33 says

nope. It's called "punishment". It is supposed to fit the "crime".

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is antithetical to Jesus's teachings. Do you disagree with Jesus? Don't feel bad if the answer is yes, I do too often.

Bap33 says

it is a crime in this world and a punishment in this world to keep a value of life high enough to be worth the trouble.

The concepts of punishment and deterrent are not the same. As a punishment, under your assumptions, the murderer is better off, so it's hardly a punishment as death has no sting.

As a deterrent, the death penalty is worthless as proven over and over.

A recent survey of the most leading criminologists in the country from found that the overwhelming majority did not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology and authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, also at Boulder.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty

Following the release of a new study published in the Journal of Adolescent Health concerning the failure of deterrence in drug use, medical experts commented that deterrence also fails in the area of capital punishment. "It is very clear that deterrents are not effective in the area of capital punishment," said Dr. Jonathan Groner, an associate professor of surgery at Ohio State University College of Medicine and Public Health who researches the deterrent effect of capital punishment. "The psychological mind-set of the criminal is such that they are not able to consider consequences at the time of the crime. Most crimes are crimes of passion that are done in situations involving intense excitement or concern. People who commit these crimes are not in a normal state of mind -- they do not consider the consequences in a logical way," Groner observed. Deterrents may work in instances where the punishment is obvious and immediate, neither of which are true for the death penalty.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/2200

“I have inquired for most of my adult life about studies that might show that the death penalty is a deterrent. And I have not seen any research that would substantiate that point.”

- Former U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, January 21, 2000
- http://tinyurl.com/9nok2hz

Scientists agree, by an overwhelming majority, that the death penalty has no deterrent effect. They felt the same way over ten years ago, and nothing has changed since then. States without the death penalty continue to have significantly lower murder rates than those that retain capital punishment. And the few recent studies purporting to prove a deterrent effect, though getting heavy play in the media, have failed to impress the larger scientific community, which has exposed them as flawed and inconsistent.

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/us/a-clear-scientific-consensus-that-the-death-penalty-does-not-deter/

The facts simply don't support your claim that the death penalty deters murder. However, there is something that does deter murder and other violent crimes: socialism.

Experts suggest that criminal behavior and the nation's murder rate may best be curbed by addressing the environmental and social factors that contribute to violent crime. Groner explains, "The murder rate is most closely associated with the socioeconomic health of the country. The murder rate in the U.S. was highest during the Depression. Also, the majority of people on death row are from the most blighted parts of the U.S. They are very poor and very impoverished. A very high percentage have mental health problems. Good access to health care and improving the socioeconomic health of our country's cities would reduce the murder rate more effectively than executions." Dr. Carlyle Chan, a professor of professional development at the Medical College of Wisconsin, adds that many people believe they can cheat the system and get away with their illegal behaviors, which lessens the deterrent impact of a specific punishment.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/2200

Bap33 says

I know you are really smart, so I always feel like the cat swatting at the yarn you are holding. Kinda sucks.

I like cats.

Bap33 says

Notice how easy murder and death are becoming to accept these days?

There are certain specific policies that trouble me like Gitmo, drone strikes, waterboarding, indefinite detention. These things are based on the priniciple that life is cheap.

Nevertheless, despite certain atrocities committed by countries like the United States, Syria, the Soviet Union, and Germany over the past century, we live in the least violent period of human history to date.

Seriously, I know you don't believe me, but watch the video on this page, http://www.edge.org/conversation/mc2011-history-violence-pinker

Here's a few slides from his video.

All these slides show violence going down and at it's minimal levels today. This means that despite a few recent atrocities by our country and a few others, the world as a whole values life far more today than at any other time. You live in a golden age of peace and non-violence.

Dan8267 says

As a deterrent, the death penalty is worthless as proven over and over.
A recent survey of the most leading criminologists

the last thing a criminologist wants is for crime to go away. ask a guy in Texas facing the chair how it feels.

Dan8267 says

States without the death penalty continue to have significantly lower murder rates than those that retain capital punishment.

lmao ... Reno is a fake, a fraud, and a liar. And, ruins the whole lezbo image we share.

Murder did go down a little bit while Clinton was in office. Except for Vince Foster and those who tied Hilary to WhiteWater's filth. And those who followed David in Waco.

Bap33 says

lmao ... Reno is a fake, a fraud, and a liar. And, ruins the whole lezbo image we share.

Take the time to read the evidence and watch the video on the page I posted.

I cant turn up sound right now. wife sleeps near. I'll check back and do it tomorrow after work.

Excellent graphs.

The only grahpic I'd dispute the one that matches specific sites to "20th Century". Obviously Europe & the US over 100 years has much lower violence, but comparing specific sites to an entire century's average is misleading.

A better comparison would be "Crow Creek" with "Stalingrad" or "Anzio", and I think we'd get much different results.