patrick.net

thomaswong.1986 says

kentm says

"Congressman Ryan had ten years in Congress — almost all with a House Republican majority — to reduce the deficit, prior to President Obama's election. He did nothing."

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/09/158477068/the-nation-paul-ryan-seriously

blah blah blah... crony New Yorkers! very impartial publication-NOT! She is your 1%er.

Katrina vanden Heuvel is the editor, publisher, and part-owner of the magazine The Nation. She has been the magazine's editor since 1995. She is a frequent guest on numerous television programs. Vanden Heuvel is a self-described liberal and progressive.

So does that make her arguments irrelevant?

Ad hominem attacks without looking at the facts of the argument are basically
talking trash about someone the poster has a dislike to.

Obama has done a better job of stopping our country from falling into a DEPRESSION than the previous president.

The argument all comes down to - the black dude is doing a better job then we did so dis him and lie about his time in office as much as possible.

How can we not lose ground to other countries when we rely on flimflammery and bogosity instead of being clear on the reality of the situation.

Countries and individuals who are number #1 don't have to continuously talk about it.

We are in serious trouble - eduation, social compact with the people, fiscal regulation , investing in the future

All that we can focus on is lets screw the middle class and sell em the snake oil about how they can be rich... don't tax the rich - screw the middle class and pretend to do them a big favor.

Pathetic and the more people buy this bullshit the more in deep doo doo we will be.

Just the beginning of the in coming bombardment by the Obama camp.

Yes, irrelevant what else do you expect a Obamatron to say.

AfroAmericanBritDesi says

Obama has done a better job of stopping our country from falling into a DEPRESSION than the previous president.

not a single year, month, week or day of actual economic / business experience.

i doubt he could come up with any ideas that Henry Paulson implementation.
no... Obama didnt do anything... shovel ready what ?

Does it even matter?

Both parties are pro-globalization. In a globalized economy, everyone makes Bangladesh wages.

thomaswong.1986 says

blah blah blah... crony New Yorkers! very impartial publication-NOT! She is your 1%er.

Katrina vanden Heuvel is the editor, publisher, and part-owner of the magazine The Nation. She has been the magazine's editor since 1995. She is a frequent guest on numerous television programs. Vanden Heuvel is a self-described liberal and progressive.

Annnnd… Naturally you attack the source instead of dealing with the info. Those simple facts about Ryan have nothing to do with your bias.

Next you'll ignore the basic topic and make a post criticizing Obama for something personal.

oh, look.

Hey, here's another one, with quotes too:

http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/16/13322419-paul-ryan-caught-red-handed-in-stimulus-hypocrisy

"Paul Ryan caught red-handed in stimulus hypocrisy"

"Since President Obama's stimulus package passed in 2009, a number of Congressional Republicans have publicly decried the program, while privately lobbying to brings the funds into their districts…

Indeed, in a radio appearance on Wisconsin's WBZ NewsRadio 1030, dug up by the AP, a caller who identified himself as Joe from Stoughton asked Ryan about the funds. “I assume you voted against the stimulus and I’m just curious if you accepted any money in your district,” Joe from Stoughton asked.

Ryan replied:

"No, I’m not one (of those) people who votes for something then writes to the government to ask them to send us money. I did not request any stimulus money."

Interesting. This week, the Boston Globe and the Wall Street Journal revealed letters from Ryan to various government agencies requesting stimulus money, and emphasizing how much it would help his district."

But hey, BOSTON GLOBE, NBC, Wisconsin's WBZ NewsRadio, all bastions of Liberal totalitarianism so lets not deal with thinking about DIRECT QUOTES. And hey, Obama has silly ears.

And this:

"And for what it's worth, most studies show that the stimulus did, in fact, help the economy."

aaaannnd of course, nothing.

here's another:

Paul Ryan Insists He Didn’t Take Stimulus Money, Then Realizes He Totally Did

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/08/ryan-denies-taking-stimulus-then-admits-he-did.html?mid=reddit_dailyintel

"Paul Ryan voted against President Obama's federal stimulus bill, and has repeatedly attacked the legislation, calling it a "wasteful spending spree" and "a monstrosity." Thus, the revelation that he and several other Republicans asked for stimulus funds for companies in their district caused a minor stir when it was first reported by The Wall Street Journal in 2010. The issue was revived this week when the Boston Globe reported that Ryan wrote four letters to Energy Secretary Steven Chu requesting stimulus money for two companies in his district to develop green jobs, which were both eventually awarded. In a 2010 interview and again on Thursday, Ryan indignantly declared that he'd never do such a thing. Then he admitted several hours later that upon further investigation, he definitely did ask for stimulus funds."

kentm says

Ryan wrote four letters to Energy Secretary Steven Chu requesting stimulus money for two companies in his district to develop green jobs, which were both eventually awarded.

Well did they turn things around? Got any details?

And Ryan voted to preserve $40 billion in special subsidies for big oil, an industry in which, it so happens, Ryan and his wife hold ownership stakes.

With the possible exception of Ron Paul, I have yet to see a single "free market" advocate who actually believes in the free market. Oil subsidies and free market are clearly contradictions.

Had the invisible hand of the market been left to work, America would never had become dependent on oil and wouldn't have yet reach peak domestic oil, nonetheless peak world oil. And we wouldn't be drawn into oil wars in the Middle East, draining our treasury, destroying our credibility, murdering millions, and preventing us from solving real economic problem in the U.S.

Republicans don't believe in free market. They believe in markets that are rigged for their own industries and "you're on your own" for everybody else.

because we think anything opposite of what you think is a good thing to defend.

kentm says

Again, and I'm getting tired of saying it, I understand the thinking behind these people now, and its clear where the impetus and backing is coming from, the only thing I still can't clearly understand is why you people continue to defend it.

good. nobody was paying attention anyway....

kentm says

anyway.. I'm done.

That didn't work out too well for Edwards, now, did it?
The cancer avoiding fuck went for the easy snatch while his wife was rotting away in the next room, popping a little rugrat out in the process...
Typical Red Diaper Doper Baby....they are all the same...

PockyClipsNow says

If this election is close...it will boil down to who has the best hair.

blah blah blah.....all water under the bridge.
tell us something new, or stop boring us to death...

kentm says

Then he admitted several hours later that upon further investigation, he definitely did ask for stimulus funds."

we should burn straw for fuel....
we got plenty of straw...i see it all the time at halloween..

Dan8267 says

Had the invisible hand of the market been left to work, America would never had become dependent on oil and wouldn't have yet reach peak domestic oil, nonetheless peak world oil.

xrpb11a says

we should burn straw for fuel....

we got plenty of straw...i see it all the time at halloween..

Dan8267 says

Had the invisible hand of the market been left to work, America would never had become dependent on oil and wouldn't have yet reach peak domestic oil, nonetheless peak world oil.

No. We should burn human fat as fuel. America would be energy independent overnight.

Dan8267 says

Had the invisible hand of the market been left to work, America would never had become dependent on oil and wouldn't have yet reach peak domestic oil, nonetheless peak world oil. And we wouldn't be drawn into oil wars in the Middle East, draining our treasury, destroying our credibility, murdering millions, and preventing us from solving real economic problem in the U.S.

That's a big assertion! What are you basing it on?

New renter says

That's a big assertion! What are you basing it on?

Long History Of U.S. Energy Subsidies
History of U.S. Oil Subsidies Go Back Nearly a Century

People do more of something when the reward increases. When you subsidize something, you get more of it.

Electric cars go back to the 1800s and should have never been replaced with gas cars.

In 1828, Hungarian, Ányos Jedlik invented a small-scale model car powered by an electric motor that he designed. Between 1832 and 1839 (the exact year is uncertain), Robert Anderson of Scotland invented a crude electric-powered carriage. In 1835, another small-scale electric car was designed by Professor Stratingh of Groningen, Holland, and built by his assistant Christopher Becker. In 1835, Thomas Davenport, a blacksmith from Brandon, Vermont, built a small-scale electric car. Davenport was also the inventor of the first of the first American-built DC electric motor.

More practical and more successful electric road vehicles were invented by both Thomas Davenport and Scotsmen Robert Davidson around 1842.

In the late 1800s, France and Great Britain were the first nations to support the widespread development of electric vehicles. In 1899, a Belgian built electric racing car called "La Jamais Contente" set a world record for land speed - 68 mph - designed by Camille Jénatzy.

In 1897, the first commercial EV application was established as a fleet of New York City taxis built by the Electric Carriage and Wagon Company of Philadelphia.

By the turn of the century, America was prosperous and cars, now available in steam, electric, or gasoline versions, were becoming more popular. The years 1899 and 1900 were the high point of electric cars in America, as they outsold all other types of cars. One example was the 1902 Phaeton built by the Woods Motor Vehicle Company of Chicago, which had a range of 18 miles, a top speed of 14 mph and cost $2,000. Later in 1916, Woods invented a hybrid car that had both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor.

Electric vehicles had many advantages over their competitors in the early 1900s. They did not have the vibration, smell, and noise associated with gasoline cars. Changing gears on gasoline cars was the most difficult part of driving, while electric vehicles did not require gear changes.

Had oil not been subsidized, electric cars would have been the norm and electric car technology would have been advanced considerably. Cheap, subsidized oil killed the electric car.

Oil companies killed the electric car.

Who wants to kill the electric car? Apparently, a lot of people do. During the 1920’s, the Milburn electric cars were popular, particularly with the ladies who didn’t like cranking gasoline engines to start them. In 1928, General Motors bought the Milburn out and it disappeared. In 1996, the EV1 electric cars appeared on roads in California. They were quiet and fast and produced no exhaust fumes. They were manufactured by GM under a mandate to reduce vehicle emissions. Ten years later, these futuristic cars were almost completely gone. A documentary, Who Killed the Electric Car , determined that the batteries were not the problem but that the culprits were mainly oil companies who stood to lose enormous profits if EV sales took off and GM, who didn’t think they would make enough profit from the car. If GM had developed and improved the EV1, they might not have gone bankrupt.

The evil oil industry would have never existed had our government not used tax payer dollars to build that monster. And then that monster destroyed productive industries like electric cars and clean energy development so that it could become a large, unstoppable parasite.

Had there been no oil subsidies, drilling for oil would have been extremely expensive in the early 20th century. Technology to find and drill for oil would have progress more slowly while green technology would have progressed much more quickly. The small size of the oil industry would have prevented it from buying legislators and using laws to destroy all competition.

Industries and power structures grow exponentially. As such, even a small decrease in the base has enormous influence on the rate of growth of these entities. Over a century, this makes all the difference.

America today would have been far better off economically, environmentally, technologically, and in terms of national security had we never subsidized oil.

Yet all those free market capitalists are in favor of continuing to subsidize this highly profitable, highly polluting, highly dangerous, and ultimately unsustainable industry. When oil runs out, and it will in your lifetime, the economy will crash. The more dependent on oil America is at that time, the worse the ensuing depression will be.

xrpb11a says

because we think anything opposite of what you think is a good thing to defend

Excellent reason.

Here, defend this:

Bloomberg: Romney Tax Plan is "Mathematically Impossible"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-02/romney-tax-plan-on-table-debt-collapses-table-.html

"I can describe Mitt Romney’s tax policy promises in two words: mathematically impossible.

Those aren’t my words. They’re the words of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, which has conducted the most comprehensive analysis to date of Romney’s tax plan and which bent over backward to make his promises add up. They’re perhaps the two most important words that have been written during this U.S. presidential election."

xrpb11a says

blah blah blah.....all water under the bridge.
tell us something new, or stop boring us to death...

I love it. Presidential candidate lies openly, repeatedly, obviously.

xrpb11a: "I'm bored."

Presidential candidate creates budget that makes no sense, lies about it.

xrpb11a: "whatevs".

Presidential candidate selects running mate who's budget makes no sense and who can't honestly discuss his partners.

xrpb11a: "yawn, water under the bridge."

Running mate is discovered to have secretly repeatedly acted in the exact opposite manner to what he claims his most deeply held beliefs are and then lied about it repeatedly before being outed by media. Budget still makes no sense.

xrpb11a: "Bo-o-ored. Fucking libs..."

Sorry to have bored you by posting all of these simple facts xrpb11a... I know you much prefer your fantasy world to exploring real world results and happenings, in there you're a king, some grand wizard or something, riding the great dragon of liberal crushing power, who apparently loves and grows stronger and more powerful with each new bit of verbal felatio delivered by your chosen leaders...

Dan8267 says

The evil oil industry...

The state of the oil industry doesn't concern me at all in this thread. This does: "In a 2010 interview and again on Thursday, Ryan indignantly declared that he'd never do such a thing. Then he admitted several hours later that upon further investigation, he definitely did ask for stimulus funds.""

And this, somebody has already 'run the numbers':

"The Tax Policy Center took Romney at his word. They also did what he hasn’t done: They put his plan on the table. To help Romney, the center did so under the most favorable conditions, which also happen to be wildly unrealistic... The numbers never worked out. No matter how hard the Tax Policy Center labored to make Romney’s promises add up..."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-02/romney-tax-plan-on-table-debt-collapses-table-.html

The campaign is bullshit, from top to bottom. Doesn't that bother you? Or does it bore you?

Should Ryan digest the info before talking out of his ass? Or should he walk the "Huckleberry-Pelosi-step", and read or talk about something after he passes it?....

Does the average Liberal know that Obama is already screwing the elderly by robbing Medicare of $700 billion, while incorrectly accusing Romney/Ryan of same?

When will you, and the rest of the voters realize that Obamacare ALREADY cut $700 BILLION from Medicare? Yes, those retired grandmas/pas over 55 basically got screwed by Obama. Gone/stolen/'reallocated'...Whatever label you want to slap on this FACT, it is what it is. Obama is accussing Romney's plan of what it would do, yet goes silent when asked to confirm what he ALREADY DID do. And when Obamacare is all said and done, it will remove 1 Trillion from Medicare, and give it to the 26yo layabouts living w/ Mommy, and the illegals who didn't pay ANYTHING! How do you feel about your Messiah taking away billions from the elderly that PAID into this system their entire lives, only to be screwed by Obama in giving their hard earned dollars to illegals in the form of 'free' healthcare. MAKES 'YA SICK! ....BTW, I enjoyed Soledad O'Brien try and explain this fact away..."Rabble-rabble-homina-homina"...LOL! Liberals can't even wrap their brains around the fact that Obama stole from Medicare to the current tune of $700 Billion. HAHAHAHAAAA

I don't think discussing obamas record in this thread is the appropriate way to counter the fact that Romney and Ryan clearly appear to be a couple of smarmy lying assholes, but I guess it is the closest thing to a rebuttal it's possible for you to muster - other than being bored. This thread is against Romney and Ryan, not for Obama. For what it's worth I'm not much of an Obama supporter. I've never voted for him. But I will admit the positive things he has done. Here's a list for anyone who cares or can manage to keep themselves awake long enough to skim through it:

http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what-has-obama-done-since-january-20-2009.html

What Has Obama Done? Here Are 194 Accomplishments! With Citations

First 11:

1. Within his first week, he signed an Executive Order ordering an audit of government contracts, and combating waste and abuse.   http://1.usa.gov/dUvbu5

2. Created the post of Chief Performance Officer, whose job it is to make operations more efficient to save the federal government money.   http://n.pr/hcgBn1

3. On his first full day, he froze White House salaries.  http://on.msnbc.com/ewJUIx

4. He appointed the first Federal Chief Information Officer to oversee federal IT spending. http://www.cio.gov

5. He committed to phasing out unnecessary and outdated weapons systems. To that end, he also signed the Democratic-sponsored Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act, which attempted to put a stop to waste, fraud and abuse in the defense procurement and contracting system.  http://bit.ly/hOw1t1     http://bit.ly/fz8GAd

6. Through an executive order, he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform.  http://bit.ly/hwKhKa

7. Pushed through and signed the Democratic-sponsored American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, otherwise known as “the stimulus package.” The bill passed, even though only three Republicans voted for it. In a major departure from the previous administration, he launched recovery.gov, a website that allows taxpayers to track spending from the Act.   http://1.usa.gov/ibiFSs   http://1.usa.gov/e3BJMk

8. The Bush-led Great Recession was costing the economy nearly 800,000 jobs per month by the time President Obama took office. But by the end of his first year, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act created and sustained 2.1 million jobs and stimulated the economyby  3.5%.  http://reut.rs/i46CEE

9. Not only did he completed the massive TARP financial and banking rescue plan, he also leaned on the banks and others, and recovered virtually all of the bail-out money. http://1.usa.gov/eA5jVS   http://bit.ly/eCNrD6

10. He created the Making Home Affordable home refinancing plan.  http://1.usa.gov/goy6zl

11. Oversaw the creation of more jobs in 2010 alone than Bush did in eight years. http://bit.ly/hrrnjY

And to the Medicare accusation, the latest fake republican scandal point, from the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/truth-and-lies-about-medicare.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all

In reality, the $716 billion is not a “cut” in benefits but rather the savings in costs that the Congressional Budget Office projects over the next decade from wholly reasonable provisions in the reform law.

NO HARM TO SENIORS The Republicans imply that the $716 billion in cuts will harm older Americans, but almost none of the savings come from reducing the benefits available for people already on Medicare. But if Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan were able to repeal the reform law, as they have pledged to do, that would drive up costs for many seniors — namely those with high prescription drug costs, who are already receiving subsidies under the reform law,...

And, back to the spirit of this thread:

DEFICIT REDUCTION Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan said last week that they would restore the entire $716 billion in cuts by repealing the law. The Congressional Budget Office concluded that repealing the law would raise the deficit by $109 billion over 10 years.

The Republicans gave no clue about how they would pay for restoring the Medicare cuts without increasing the deficit. It is hard to believe that, if faced with the necessity of fashioning a realistic budget, keeping Medicare spending high would be a top priority with a Romney-Ryan administration that also wants to spend very large sums on the military and on tax cuts for wealthy Americans.

Yawn.

so this is a "new" twist in presidential politics for you....
How quaint....welcome to the new world, circa 1776.

I repeat: I'm bored.

kentm says

I love it. Presidential candidate lies openly, repeatedly, obviously.

xrpb11a: "I'm bored."

See post above.

kentm says

Running mate is discovered to have secretly repeatedly acted in the exact opposite manner to what he claims his most deeply held beliefs are and then lied about it repeatedly before being outed by media. Budget still makes no sense.

xrpb11a: "Bo-o-ored. Fucking libs..."

I see you don't list your resident city. Judging where your mind is at based on your comment below, I'll just assume your a San Fran boy.....
But then again, liberals always did bend over backwards for any kind of free handout....

kentm says

Sorry to have bored you by posting all of these simple facts xrpb11a... I know you much prefer your fantasy world to exploring real world results and happenings, in there you're a king, some grand wizard or something, riding the great dragon of liberal crushing power, who apparently loves and grows stronger and more powerful with each new bit of verbal felatio delivered by your chosen leaders...

kentm says

The campaign is bullshit, from top to bottom. Doesn't that bother you? Or does it bore you?

Every campaign I've seen in my life has been bullshit. What really bothers me is that both candidates are pure evil, far more so than in the 20th century.

Nixon was a crook and a lousy human being, but by today's standards he's a saint.

kentm says

The campaign is bullshit, from top to bottom. Doesn't that bother you? Or does it bore you?

I watched the Sunday morning news/talk shows as I usually do ("This Week With George Stephanopolis" and "Meet the Press") and I was struck more than ever by the lies from Romney's campaign.

The biggest lie: "We want to talk about substance."

Right. How do they talk about substance without talking about taxes or medicare. OF course they know this and are therefore on a offense lying their asses off.

I have some friends who are relatively moderate republicans, and I can't halp wondering why they aren't bothered by the lying.

(Yes, I know - people will say that about Obama ? With his "hope and change" or his desire to work across aisle etc. But it can at least be argued that this was his real intent.)

Whereas Romney /Ryan are selling specific policy ideas by lying. Their changes to medicare are not honestly described. Instead they focus on bs about OBama "raiding medicare." Why can't they just admit that they want to end medicare as a defined benefit program and replace it with vouchers ?

Every thinking person knows that they are terrified of the political impact of ending medicare, so they get out in front of the issue with lies and misinformation.

Same thing with taxes. Really ? Not only will you not raise taxes on the wealthy but you will cut them more ? And somehow you believe that this can be sold (not to mention you believe it will work ?!!).

I notice a striking difference between what a fiscal conservative was 30 years ago versus now.

Now it's as if deep down the biggest goal is growing as much wealth in the aristocracy as possible, and fuck everyone else. They claim that the democrats are negative on America when the truth is I think the so called "conservatives" have totally given up on the American dream. It's all about "I've got mine."

xrpb11a says

so this is a "new" twist in presidential politics for you....
How quaint....welcome to the new world, circa 1776.

I repeat: I'm bored.

Then stop posting.

So you admit you recognize that romney and ryan are lying through their teeth about, well, fucking EVERYTHING, and you support that, and your defense is to claim to be BORED at my naivety because I still have the capacity and dignity to be affronted by this sham of a campaign that insults all of us every time one of them opens their mouth. Great, well done you. Great show for the moral standards of the "Grand" old party, great support for the "honor" of your philosophy that can't get what it wants except by lying and hiding, and stoopidly so. And when it comes down to it all you really want is nothing more than what marcus says: "I got mine, screw you". Great, what more is there for you to say, other than to resort to personal insults and fake scandal talking points.

Oh, look.

And no, I don't live in the Bay Area.

Dan8267 says

kentm says

The campaign is bullshit, from top to bottom. Doesn't that bother you? Or does it bore you?

Every campaign I've seen in my life has been bullshit. What really bothers me is that both candidates are pure evil, far more so than in the 20th century.

Nixon was a crook and a lousy human being, but by today's standards he's a saint.

Indeed. It's an unbelievably sad year for politics. I honestly believe it's come to this because the US system does not enable it's constituents to hold their representatives accountable or take them to task for anything. We're forced into this 'us v them' narrative and who we end up supporting is whomever is presented as the opposite of the other guys team. Why should our candidates respect us? Why should they feel they have to work for our vote? Because they don't. You can practically hear them saying "ha, where else are they gonna go?" And that's what Romney and Ryan are saying every single time they open their mouths. And they don't even have enough respect for their supporters to bother lying effectively.

And poor little xrpb11a is "bored" by all of this, that's all he can muster.

Kentm,

I agree that the Republican party is full of shit. It's going to be hilarious watching Romney campaign against Romney-Obama-Care, for example. And of course all the Rushbots and Foxbots will line up in lockstep to vote for him anyway.

But I'm not going to vote for "your team" either. The base of your party wants to force religious groups to do same-sex marriage ceremonies even if it's against their beliefs. That's the *real* motive behind gay marriage: establishing a legal "beach head" from which to assault religious groups. And I'm quite fed up with the assertion that "traditional marriage" = Jim Crow. That's bullshit.

why should i stop posting? I pay my taxes...i have the right to sit on the sidelines and tell you the whole fucking thing is BORING

unless you're the kind that wants to prohibit free speech....boy that'll go over well on this forum...

kentm says

xrpb11a says

so this is a "new" twist in presidential politics for you....
How quaint....welcome to the new world, circa 1776.

I repeat: I'm bored.

Then stop posting.

Yes, I admit that. Along with what you omitted, that the jackass party is also lying through their teeth...
Do some historical research, this type of shit, and the level of it in presidential politics, goes back to the 1700s...

the fact that you still have "the capacity and dignity to be affronted" indicates you are ignorant of history and incapable of tolerating the american political system.

Maybe life would be less stressful for you in the 'Humor' section of this website....
kentm says

So you admit you recognize that romney and ryan are lying through their teeth about, well, fucking EVERYTHING, and you support that, and your defense is to claim to be BORED at my naivety because I still have the capacity and dignity to be affronted by this sham of a campaign that insults all of us every time one of them opens their mouth.

No, I don't support that. but it is what it is and there is nothing on this earth you can do to change it. But for you to tell me that "I support that" without any proof whatsoever indicates that you have been integrated somewhat into american politics and are guilty of the same charges you level at Romney....

Welcome to the new world!!

kentm says

So you admit you recognize that romney and ryan are lying through their teeth about, well, fucking EVERYTHING, and you support that,

heh heh heh...

'little xrpb11a' is not 'poor', but he is 'bored' and when you are bored you are not inspired to 'muster' anything...

Tell me something that is inspiring and i'll see if I can 'muster' something up...

kentm says

And poor little xrpb11a is "bored" by all of this, that's all he can muster.

Actually, I'm a democrat, just like you.
Just not so naive..

kentm says

Great show for the moral standards of the "Grand" old party,

Frankly, I don't see much wrongdoing in what Ryan did.

For example, I consider the mortgage interest tax deduction a most damaging for US economy. As such it's much worse than any particular stimulus junk. However, would i decide to by a house i would use it to reduce my tax obligations.
I think that $USD financial pyramid suppresses prices we pay for international goods, but I can't imagine buying Ford instead of Honda.
I think that the lack of adequate energy taxes causes huge damage to both economy and ecology and forces EU consumers to effectively subsidize our gasoline consumption, but I''m glad I can get a gallon of gas for only $4, rather than $9 like in EU.

xrpb11a says

Actually, I'm a democrat, just like you.
Just not so naive..

Actually I'm not a democrat. I've honestly never voted democrat… But really, if you think of yourself as one and you come to this site dishing out the kind of crap and insults you do here then I can't believe you on that point. And when I said "poor" I wan't talking monetarily.

The point of this whole thread is not to inspire, its to express my disgust… Am I naive?… Yeah, I hope so. At least enough to have the capacity to be wigged out by the kind of rank behavior we're seeing from this particular team.

The theme of this thread probably predicated on this simple old quote from Orwell: "We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."

Apparently, how you've been brought up to think and act regarding american politics is in direct opposition to political reality, from the beginning, circa 1776.

You espouse moderate, sensible discussion, debate, and advertising from your politicians, an unachievable fantasy.

You live in Bill Maher's infamous bubble.

kentm says

The point of this whole thread is not to inspire, its to express my disgust… Am I naive?… Yeah, I hope so. At least enough to have the capacity to be wigged out by the kind of rank behavior we're seeing from this particular team.