patrick.net

Squatting in East CoCo says

I am looking for a believable explanation given all the evidence of a controlled demolition.

No, you are STARTING with the unfounded belief that it was a controlled demolition and searching for whatever tortured reasoning you can use to convince yourself that it's true. There is no evidence whatsoever to support the controlled demolition theory.

Squatting in East CoCo says

"Thermite is a mixture of powdered iron oxide and elemental aluminum which, when ignited, reacts violently at 4,000-4,500° Fahrenheit (F) – well above the melting point of steel or iron, about 2,800° F, producing aluminum oxide and molten iron. When free sulfur is added to the mixture, the iron melts at a lower temperature. Thermite with sulfur added is called thermate. Structural steel in contact with ignited thermate also melts at a lower temperature. Contrary to what NIST and others have claimed, the sulfur could not have come from gypsum wallboard, where it is an inert, chemically “locked” ingredient."

I'll give you this: You have figured out how to use Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V. Is that what you teach those college students in your computer class?

Squatting in East CoCo says

We both know that there are no pictures of the jet hitting the pentagon. There are only pics of the explosion.

You are right; there are no "pictures" of the plane hitting the pentagon. There are security VIDEOS of the plane hitting the pentagon. Security cameras are not high-speed cameras, so they did not pick up clear images of a plane traveling over 400 mph. I hope that is not a mystery to you. It's certainly clear that something happened, and a fire started. What do you think caused it?

The rest of the videos that would show the actual plane hitting were confiscated by the authorities and never released.

Um, no. That is false.

Squatting in East CoCo says

You wont even tell us where you are coming from.

I really am from California, honest.

Where I am coming from? Is that supposed to be English? Anyway, I am English. I don't live permanently in America, but I have a home in Monterey, which is the reason why I have an interest in US real estate. Happy now?

bgamall4 says

The twin towers appear to come down

We keep telling this to Bigsby and he cannot comprehend it. Why does he bother to come on this board if he doesn't comprehend anything people say to him?

The towers were top down, and they shot out concrete from the top but the structure of steel imploded on itself anyway, for the most part.

Er, strangely enough, I didn't think the towers went up. And of course concrete and debris was pushed outwards from the downward pressure. What exactly do you expect to happen? But that isn't the majority of the mass of the building, is it?
Look, you believe that the government planted a massive amount of explosives right at the points where two planes struck two different buildings and then managed to detonate said explosives without any sound or any video evidence of an actual controlled demolition. Most sane people don't actually believe your version of events. I know that may be a shock to you, but there you go.

Squatting in East CoCo says

We both know that there are no pictures of the jet hitting the pentagon. There are only pics of the explosion. The rest of the videos that would show the actual plane hitting were confiscated by the authorities and never released.

Did you know that?

Like I said, you are a liar. You came to that conspiracy website 2 weeks ago, did you? I don't think so. You post a comment saying you believe a plane hit the Pentagon and then demand proof that a plane hit the Pentagon. How exactly does that work if you clearly think you know that video evidence isn't available showing that? You are playing a game. A very obvious game of deception and leading.

bgamall4 says

No, he is correct about the videos being confiscated. You are the liar.

Dummy Rummy said it was a missile. I take him at his word. Let's see the video.

Always helps to actually read what was posted before responding. You should try it.

Bigsby says

Where I am coming from? Is that supposed to be English?

"american" language, is what it is. get it limey?

bgamall4 says

There you go again. There were the fire fighters saying there were explosions heard, top down. It is all here if you look, Bigsby. The concrete shot out from above where the planes hit. Think about it Bigsby.

No, you think about it. Think about the fact that some clearly traumatized firemen talking about explosions doesn't actually equate to evidence of a controlled demolition. Think about the fact there are no videos showing a controlled demolition. Think about the complete lack of any visual or audio evidence to back up your claims despite all the cameras pointing in the direction of the buildings. Think about what your claims actually entail. Think about the complete impossibility of all that. Just think.

coriacci1 says

"american" language, is what it is. get it limey?

'Where are you coming from' is American English for 'where do you live?' OK, if you say so.

bgamall4 says

He said this:

" We both know that there are no pictures of the jet hitting the pentagon. There are only pics of the explosion. The rest of the videos that would show the actual plane hitting were confiscated by the authorities and never released.

Did you know that?"

You called him a liar.

I answered with this:

"No, he is correct about the videos being confiscated. You are the liar.

Dummy Rummy said it was a missile. I take him at his word. Let's see the video."

So, what the hell are you talking about, Grizby?

Reading comprehension is not your strong point, is it? Read my post again and actually think about it. And just to help you as you seem as confused as usual, I wasn't referring to the Pentagon, I was referring to his past claims of being interested in both sides of the argument, of wanting a debate, and most relevantly, of only being made aware of that conspiracy website after reading this thread. Get it now?

BigsbyBigsby says

'Where are you coming from' is American English for 'where do you live?' OK.

it depends on who's doing the talkin. you get my drift?

bgamall4 says

What is your point, why do you exist, why are you still here? Those are the things that matter, Bisby.

Why do I exist and why am I still here? What sort of questions are those? You really are a complete fool, aren't you?

Bigsby says

You really are a complete fool, aren't you?

you are english. you said it. you must be right.

coriacci1 says

Bigsby says

You really are a complete fool, aren't you?

you are english. you said it. you must be right.

That's the first correct thing you've said in the entire thread.

Bigsby says

That's the first correct thing you've said in the entire thread.

pretty funny!

bgamall4 says

Here is the bottom line, Bigsby, you are curious about the 911 conspiracy. But you are cowardly and cannot come to believe it even though you doubt the official story.

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

Ah right, the bottom line according to an idiot. You say I am cowardly because I don't believe the bullshit you are serving up? Don't make me laugh. And you'll have to explain how I doubt the official story. Have you actually been reading what was posted in this thread?
Anyway, I might still respond to Squatting, but as for you, life is too short to spend dealing with people who are clearly a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Bigsby says

Squatting in East CoCo says

You wont even tell us where you are coming from.

I really am from California, honest.

Where I am coming from? Is that supposed to be English? Anyway, I am English. I don't live permanently in America, but I have a home in Monterey, which is the reason why I have an interest in US real estate. Happy now?

Where you are coming from includes where you live, where you were raised, your education, and your occupation, parts of the basis on where your opinion comes from. You previously declined to give this information thus my statement' "You wont even tell us where you are coming from."

Does that clear it up?

You asked the question and then answered it by saying you're from California. Now you apparently require an entire life story.
Once again, you are the one with the outlandish views. I don't need to try to bolster my arguments by giving a personal background history. It's irrelevant. You claim you were suddenly converted by a wing-nut website 11 years after the event. OK, I still don't believe you, but OK. Now you are evangelizing for it on a forum. Quite the turn around for someone new to laughably idiotic ideas that a minuscule number of people take seriously. But hey, keep posting your videos - there's a certain entertainment value in trying to see what you people see in them. So far, I'm just seeing what everyone else sees - further evidence against what you are claiming.

War says

Bibsy.... you're a known and proven liar.

You're a known and proven liar and troll. How are the name changes and bannings coming along by the way? Both must be heading towards double figures or higher by now.
And you still apparently don't know when 2004 starts.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Homeboy says

The rest of the videos that would show the actual plane hitting were confiscated by the authorities and never released.

Um, no. That is false.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/footage.html

"Not only has the government refused to release footage that would clearly show how the Pentagon was attacked, it has also seized footage not belonging to the military. The FBI confiscated video recordings from several private businesses near the Pentagon in the immediate aftermath of the attack. Those recordings, if they still exist, might provide decisive evidence about the attack. "

The government is not hiding any videos that show the plane crashing into the pentagon. That doesn't even make sense.

If you don't think a plane crashed into the pentagon, what do you think happened?

Squatting in East CoCo says

I am willing to be convinced that the NIST report is accurate.

That is the least true thing I have read this year.

These are controlled demolitions:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/eem7d58gjno

Do you see any that implode from the top down? Do you see any that don't make a very regular boom, boom, boom, boom.... sound before they fall? Did any of the WTC buildings make sounds like that? Your video contains several clips of people saying they "heard explosions". Do any of them say they heard multiple "boom" sounds, regularly spaced, occurring in rapid succession?

See, this is what cracks me up about you. You are obsessed on this conspiracy mantra that "no steel building ever fell before". You seem to be unable to fathom that it is the first time this exact series of events ever happened. Yet you unquestioningly believe that this was the world's first top-down controlled demolition, the world's first controlled demo in which the normal "boom, boom, boom, boom..." sounds can't be heard, the world's first controlled demo where at best, a couple little puffs of smoke can be seen, and the multiple bright flashes of explosions throughout the building are missing, and the first controlled demo in the world where the "explosions" don't even start until the building is already falling.

A whole series of things that, if they were really part of a controlled demo, have never happened before in history, and you happily believe it all, hook, line, and sinker. Things that never happened before can't happen... unless it fits your argument at the time.

Squatting in East CoCo says

It's not just me.

Nope, there are a few other kooks too.

Squatting - answer my question. If you don't think a plane crashed into the pentagon, what do you think happened?

Squatting in East CoCo says

It did not fall, it exploded!

What exactly do you think you are looking at? That video highlights a couple of little puffs of smoke many floors below the collapse AFTER the collapse had begun. Seriously, I want to know what you think that represents and how that equates to a controlled demolition. This video is evidence that there wasn't a controlled demolition... that the puffs shown occurred after the collapse had already started and that they are simply the downward force of air being expelled lower down the building. Really, I just don't understand how you can look at that and say 'hey, here's proof of a controlled demolition.' Mind-boggling.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Bigsby says

Mind-boggling.

My mind is boggled too. That is why I am continuing to research this topic.

I am still hoping to be convinced against the cover up.

Just look at the videos you keep posting. It's evidence against your controlled demolition nonsense. And I'm sorry Squatter, but the mere fact you keep posting these videos without explaining what you think you are looking at or addressing the very obvious problems with them can only lead people to one conclusion about what you are doing.
And if your research amounts to simply posting Youtube videos, then I think you need to refine your research skills. You mentioned you had a postgrad qualification...

Squatting in East CoCo says

Bigsby says

Just look at the videos you keep posting. It's evidence against your controlled demolition nonsense.

I am just getting the evidence out, pro and con CD.

You can make up your own mind.

I must have missed the evidence you posted up against a CD unless the rest of us are supposed to take your pro CD videos as evidence against that particular conspiracy theory. Works for me.

Squatting in East CoCo says

"Thermite is a mixture of powdered iron oxide and elemental aluminum which, when ignited, reacts violently at 4,000-4,500° Fahrenheit (F) – well above the melting point of steel or iron, about 2,800° F, producing aluminum oxide and molten iron. When free sulfur is added to the mixture, the iron melts at a lower temperature. Thermite with sulfur added is called thermate. Structural steel in contact with ignited thermate also melts at a lower temperature. Contrary to what NIST and others have claimed, the sulfur could not have come from gypsum wallboard, where it is an inert, chemically “locked” ingredient."

Squatting in East CoCo says

Can't you debate the evidence I presented?

For someone claiming to be a college "teacher" (I've never heard anyone teaching at a college level refer to themselves as anything but professor, very curious) you have almost zero grasp of what the word evidence means. You cut an pasted a description of what thermite/thermate properties are along with a sentence where an unknown someone claims sulfur cannot have come from gypsum. This is evidence of what? So anything anyone says that you agree with is evidence?

Squatting in East CoCo says

I have restricted my research to the internet.

That's problem #1. Doesn't your college that you work at or local town have a library? Perhaps you consider some books. Maybe if you read up on some of the subjects you would find out that thermite/thermate is very damn hard to ignite. It would be a lousy choice for demolition. It doesn't explode it burns, didn't you watch your own video of the thermite torch? So what would the booms be if thermite were used? It just goes hiss. If conventional explosives were used, even if enhanced by thermite, then where is the residue of the explosives? Chromotology will show conventional explosives. Where are all the thousands of detonators, not one single one was recovered.

You need to make up your mind about what the conspiracy was before you can present it. Thermite or explosives, the government did it to destroy records or silverman did it for insurance, bombs planted since buildings or just put in recently, the list goes on and on.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Only three steel framed buildings have ever collapsed from fire. WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7.

No building before, no building after.

No building ever built like the wtc. You forgot that point.

Squatting in East CoCo says

It did not fall, it exploded!

I've been thinking about this. The truthers are very good with what but never can come up with how. So they just keep repeating what no matter how many times people ask how.

So the problem in your mind is that the buildings fell too fast so there must have been explosives on each floor that pulverized the concrete and dropped all the floors in a way that did not violate newtons' third law. I did a few calculations on that, it's very interesting.

Between 1,2,7 wt there are roughly 250 floors of offices. Each floor has 48 core columns plus 236 exterior columns for a total of 284 columns times 250 floors. That's 62,000 charges.

The standard charts for c4 calls for a 1" wall thickness column 24x24 to use 6.8lbs of c4 to cut through it. As per the wtc plans these columns range from 16x36 to 22x52. so the average size of the wtc columns is bigger than 24x24 so let's round up to 8lbs, that's very very conservative, 12 lbs would be more realistic. That means 496,000 lbs of c4 to secretly hump into the buildings. Thermite would be more weight than that. A substantial amount to carry in backpacks and briefcases I would say.

Then we have access. Each of the hundreds (or more) of offices in the wtc would have had it's own alarm. I've been in and out of a LOT of offices in NYC, they all have alarms. So the unknown "they" would have had to have the alarm codes for each and every office, gotten into the offices at least 62,000 times (assuming there weren't more than one column per office) without being seen by security. A pretty amazing feat even for the mission impossible crew.

Then "they" would have had access to the columns to place the charges. I would say going after the floor trusses was out since you would be talking about ripping up floors. So they had to rip out walls 62,000 times to get to the columns. Even better they would have had to have had exact matches to the paint/wallpaper or whatever wall covering in each and every office. So they would have to sneak into each office beforehand to get this information and then buy the correct supplies, matching the paint perfectly by eye. That is times 62,000 plus there is the weight of the supplies to think about also. I'm a pretty fast handyman. I could put a hole in the wall, patch it, tape it, blow dry the tape, paint it, blow dry the paint and clean up in a couple of hours maybe. Assuming there wasn't a lot of furniture moving. So that's 124,000 hours of work. Say you had 10 guys doing this it's 12,400 hours or about 516 days working 24 hours a day. Since you would be sneaking info offices you would have to assume 8 hours max or 1548 days or 4.24 years All without being seen by security or setting off an office alarm. That leaves silverman out since he only signed the lease 1 month before. That leaves bush out since he only took office 1 year before.

Then there were detonators. Assuming "they" weren't going to string 62,000 wires along the outside of the building "they" would need 62,000 radio controlled detonators. Obviously "they" would have to use some type of digital encoded signal for the detonators since using one that just checks a single frequency would present problems with premature detonation, a very big whoops. Where does one order 62,000 specialized detonators like that? Someone would notice something just a little odd about that order. Then there is the problem of keeping 62,000 batteries charged until you need them. And keeping the radio units from getting torched by the fire. There is no way either of these problems could be addressed that I can think of.

Looking at all this I have to say time traveling aliens doesn't seem so far fetched idea after all.

Any reasonable explanation how this could have all been accomplished? Ive never seen any on ae911truth, which is why I have dismissed them as crackpots.

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

No building ever built like the wtc. You forgot that point.

All three?

All three had uncontrolled fires, why not?

Squatting - if you don't think a plane flew into the pentagon, then what do you think happened? I don't think you're really interested in this subject. Since you won't answer my question, I think you're just a troll.

bob2356 says

Any reasonable explanation how this could have all been accomplished? Ive never seen any on ae911truth, which is why I have dismissed them as crackpots.

C'mon, aren't you paying attention? It was magic super-duper thermite.

Squatting in East CoCo says

I really is a college teacher. My students call me professor but I don't have a PhD so technically I am an instructor.

What are you?

Back to the evidence.

Explain how quoting an unidentified source making a simple declarative unsubstantiated statement constitutes evidence professor. You clearly don't understand the term.

Why won't you answer my question, Squatting? Is it because you have no answer?

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

That means 496,000 lbs of c4 to secretly hump into the buildings. Thermite would be more weight than that. A substantial amount to carry in backpacks and briefcases I would say.

Makes sense, it would require a half ton of c4 or an office fire.

You says it's explosives not me. So how much was used and where? Once again we have what but not how. BTW 496,000 libs is considerably more than half a ton. I hope you are not teaching math.

Homeboy says

bob2356 says

Any reasonable explanation how this could have all been accomplished? Ive never seen any on ae911truth, which is why I have dismissed them as crackpots.

C'mon, aren't you paying attention? It was magic super-duper thermite.

It's hard to pay attention, the story changes by the minute. I'm still betting on aliens.

Squatting in East CoCo says

bob2356 says

There is no way either of these problems could be addressed that I can think of.

Use your imagination. It is vivid.

Your scenario is plausible but I don't think an actual rigging for radio controlled demolition would require that much explosive. The official story says that without any explosives a fire could cause the building to collapse.

Is it beyond your imagination to imagine your secret "they" are masquerading as security, construction and maintenance workers?

I don't have to use my imagination, it's your theory tell me HOW it's possible. Tell me how you can keep batteries alive for years sealed up in a wall and how you can keep sensitive detonators alive in the middle of a raging fire. That dirty how word again. You entire theory falls apart when faced with how.

You think people shuffling in and out sneaking into alarmed offices punching holes in walls and repairing them so well that nobody noticed in the dead of night for years is plausible? Are you high?

So how much explosive do the experts at ae911truth actually believe was used and how long would it have taken to place. I haven't them discuss it. You keep saying what but never how.

Do you even understand the difference between the words what and how? It appears that you don't.

Yes I believe fire could have weakened steel to the point of deforming allowing the floors to fall. Look at pictures of any large steel structure that has burned. There is tons of twisted deformed steel. That's without 300,000 lbs of burning kerosene and god only knows how much office stuff (chairs, desks, carpets, etct.) helping it along.

Still won't answer my question, eh Squatting?

Squatting in East CoCo says

SO it would require ALMOST HALF A MILLION POUNDS of explosives, or office fires, to make the buildings collapse.

You forgot about the plane. I think that might be important.