patrick.net

Bigsby says

Yep, you're right, no other buildings in the history of human civilisation have ever burnt down. Except for my aunt's house, and...

you know that it is steel structured buildings referred to so why play the dumb ass?

coriacci1 says

Bigsby says

Yep, you're right, no other buildings in the history of human civilisation have ever burnt down. Except for my aunt's house, and...

you know that it is steel structured buildings referred to so why play the dumb ass?

Perhaps he needs to be a bit more accurate with his posts. All of them. You too for that matter. Facts, they can set you free, free from wasting your time trawling through whack-job conspiracy theory videos knocked up on a whim by people who haven't got a bloody clue what they're talking about.

Homeboy says

Nobody in the official investigation EVER claimed that the steel melted, yet you keep saying that, even after I have corrected you several times.

eppur si muove!

I like watching the History Channel, but my, oh, my, when Ancient Aliens comes on I just cringe and invariably reach for the remote control. I suspect a lot of the people involved with that program share your conspiracy theories too. Says it all really.

Bigsby says,

"Your views are rather like people having hundreds of years of research on the heliocentric nature of the solar system, and then you dig up a book that's a couple of thousand years old that states the earth is the centre of the universe. And which do you believe? Ten fucking guesses."

Actually Bigsby, it's guys like you that prove my point. Remember back when the "learned men" of the day (the church) all said that the world was FLAT? That was the "official position" by the educated "authorities" and guess what? THEY WERE DEAD WRONG!! (just like you!!)

Turns out that some smart, highly observant people came along and pointed out a few inconvenient truths to them, PROVING through scientific observation that their position was completely without merit and indefensible.

Your "faith-based" viewpoint (trust our position, because we've hired a few experts that will corroborate our silly tale) very quickly gets blown out of the water when you start adding up all of the MANY inconsistencies about what really happened on 9/11

Truth Seeker says

Actually Bigsby, it's guys like you that prove my point. Remember back when the "learned men" of the day (the church) all said that the world was FLAT? That was the "official position" by the educated "authorities" and guess what? THEY WERE DEAD WRONG!! (just like you!!)

Turns out that some smart, highly observant people came along and pointed out a few inconvenient truths to them, PROVING through scientific observation that their position was completely without merit and indefensible.

Oh, yes, what a remarkably inappropriate comparison to make. Presumably these smart people are people like yourself, self-proclaimed experts on subjects they know little to nothing about, whilst your 'learned men' are not actually religious believers with nothing but a book to back-up their claims but real-life scientists, experts in their fields, widely published and well-respected (as opposed to the kooks, cranks, and tin foil brigade that you've latched on to).

BigsbyBigsby says

coriacci1 says

Bigsby says

Yep, you're right, no other buildings in the history of human civilisation have ever burnt down. Except for my aunt's house, and...

you know that it is steel structured buildings referred to so why play the dumb ass?

Perhaps he needs to be a bit more accurate with his posts. All of them. You too for that matter. Facts, they can set you free, free from wasting your time trawling through whack-job conspiracy theory videos knocked up on a whim by people who haven't got a bloody clue what they're talking about.

OK Bigsby, so both you and Bob2356 are ideological soul mates and sound just like broken records. You both post a hell of a lot on these forums but choose mostly to attack the messengers rather than refute the actual EVIDENCE THAT CLEARLY SHOWS the WTC buildings came down due to explosives.

But don't take my word for it! Just watch the video evidence showing all of those innocent people getting injured or killed from the many blasts that were systematically going off 80 floors down from where the planes hit. Way down in the basement and lobby where it would have been completely impossible for "fire" from kerosene to traverse that far through buildings specifically designed to isolate each floor from fire.

Or how about the many video accounts of the firemen talking/shouting about the many explosives going off, warning their co-workers and the public that explosives were going off, etc, etc?? Why do you conveniently sweep all of that under the rug?

Yet that's only a small part of the evidence that intelligent people are bringing up in this forum. There is LOTS more damning evidence if you've got the courage to look at it with any shred of intellectual honesty Bigsby

Truth Seeker says

OK Bigsby, so both you and Bob2356 are ideological soul mates and sound just like broken records.

We sound like broken records? Ha. There's nothing ideological about what we are saying. We choose to put our trust in experts, you choose to put yours in kids making Youtube videos and cranks embarrassing themselves with their outlandish conspiracy theories and pseudo-science.
And by the way, the evidence, the evidence published by multiple groups of experts, demonstrates that what you say about explosives is false. What more can we say? You choose not to believe it. Fine, but that makes you the kook, not us.

And one other thing, I've never seen you or the original poster comment on anything else but this thread. Are you one and the same person or do you go around as a group to different forums simply posting up this conspiracy theory of yours?

Bigsby says

Oh, yes, what a remarkably inappropriate comparison to make. Presumably these smart people are people like yourself, self-proclaimed experts on subjects they know little to nothing about, whilst your 'learned men' are not actually religious believers with nothing but a book to back-up their claims but real-life scientists, experts in their fields, widely published and well-respected (as opposed to the kooks, cranks, and tin foil brigade that you've latched on to).

What's the matter Bigsby? You don't believe your own lying eyes????? LOL!

Actually, I think that your position that the towers somehow came down at the speed of gravity due to burning kerosene pretty much equates to trying to say that "the earth is flat!".

Tinfoil hats??

Newsflash Bigsby - the laws of physics blow that 'pancake theory' of yours completely out of the water! That's right, it's quite impossible for any building to collapse floor by floor as fast as a rock (there would ALWAYS be some time delay as each floor fell upon itself) .

Go watch the excellent documentary on Youtube, '911 Mysteries' which goes into a lot more detail about this and many, many other inconvenient truths if you need to be schooled, Bigsby~

So it's obvious that your non-thinking, childlike belief in the fairy tale promoted about 'the official story about 9/11' represents a perfect analogy to those who ignored the real evidence, while stubbornly clinging to the notion that the world was FLAT!

Truth Seeker says

What's the matter Bigsby? You don't believe your own lying eyes????? LOL!

Actually, I think that your position that the towers somehow came down at the speed of gravity due to burning kerosene pretty much equates to trying to say that "the earth is flat!".

Tinfoil hats??

Newsflash Bigsby - the laws of physics blow that 'pancake theory' of yours completely out of the water! That's right, it's quite impossible for any building to collapse floor by floor as fast as a rock (there would ALWAYS be some time delay as each floor fell upon itself) .

Go watch the excellent documentary on Youtube, '911 Mysteries' which goes into a lot more detail about this and many, many other inconvenient truths if you need to be schooled, Bigsby~

So it's obvious that your non-thinking, childlike belief in the fairy tale promoted about 'the official story about 9/11' represents a perfect analogy to those who ignored the real evidence, while stubbornly clinging to the notion that the world was FLAT!

It's amusing that you think yourself more of an expert on this than holders of PhDs who have actually studied and published on the subject and have spent untold hours examining what actually happened on 9/11. Your conceit is baffling. And misplaced.

Oh, and what about all of those Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (over a thousand of them and growing) who are courageously putting their jobs and professional reputations on the line by publicly refuting "the official story of 9/11"???

If you need more proof, Bigsby, go to their website and start brushing up on your non-existent, critical thinking skills. You might actually learn something...LOL!

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/home.html

Truth Seeker says

Oh, and what about all of those Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (over a thousand of them and growing) who are courageously putting their jobs and professional reputations on the line by publicly refuting "the official story of 9/11"???

If you need more proof, Bigsby, go to their website and start brushing up on your non-existent, critical thinking skills. You might actually learn something...LOL!

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/home.html

Ho, ho, ho. And what about all the other scientists who don't hold these outliers' views? You know, the ones who actually carried out the research into the event. And where is it written that architects and engineers cannot be conspiracy freaks? How many of those people actually have detailed knowledge of the events, have done research on the matter, have been published..? I'm afraid it's you who is not engaging their critical thinking skills. You are a conspiracy theorist so you find fellow believers to reinforce your view. I don't have anything invested in either argument, so it's purely a matter of assessing the published information - you know, using critical thinking skills, something you seem to have suspended.

Bigsby says

It's amusing that you think yourself more of an expert on this than holders of PhDs who have actually studied and published on the subject and have spent untold hours examining what actually happened on 9/11. Your conceit is baffling. And misplaced.

Bigsby, when did YOU get YOUR PHD in structural engineering?? You keep ignoring the point-by-point evidence that we keep bringing up while pointing to "experts" who are easily be bought-off and corrupted (just like politicians).

Here's a novel idea Bigsby. What about using your own powers of observation and your own critical thinking skills?

I challenge you to take a hard look at the amazing body of evidence provided in the '911 Mysteries' documentary, the AE911Truth.org website (1,706 professionals, including a bunch of PHD's), the 'Loose Change' documentary, as well as SCORES of websites that directly REFUTE the "official story about 9/11".

If you've got even a shred of intellectual honesty and aren't completely stupid, your opinion will almost certainly change once you observe the very real evidence and finally free your mind from all of those "official" fairy tales.

Truth Seeker says

Bigsby, when did YOU get YOUR PHD in structural engineering?? You keep ignoring the point-by-point evidence that we keep bringing up while pointing to "experts" who are easily be bought-off and corrupted (just like politicians).

Here's a novel idea Bigsby. What about using your own powers of observation and your own critical thinking skills?

I challenge you to take a hard look at the amazing body of evidence provided in the '911 Mysteries' documentary, the AE911Truth.org website (1,706 professionals, including a bunch of PHD's), the 'Loose Change' documentary, as well as SCORES of websites that directly REFUTE the "official story about 9/11".

If you've got even a shred of intellectual honesty and aren't completely stupid, your opinion will almost certainly change once you observe the very real evidence and finally free your mind from all of those "official" fairy tales.

Seriously, I don't understand the logic of this line of argument. There are thousands of pages of PUBLISHED research that refutes the points you have raised on here. You just choose to deny them. I'm not an expert, but I've read plenty of the material. What exactly do you want a non-expert to do? Take the information from the reports and put it into forum language for you to read? That's rank stupidity. Just go straight to the original reports and read them. And please give all this paid-off nonsense a rest. Exactly how big does this conspiracy need to get? At this point it must be involving tens if not hundreds of thousands of people... at least in your mind.

Bigsby says

I don't have anything invested in either argument, so it's purely a matter of assessing the published information - you know, using critical thinking skills, something you seem to have suspended.

You say you "I don't have anything invested in either argument"? That's a joke, right?? By the looks of it Bigsby, you've been burning up these forums and seem *VERY* attached to your mistaken BELIEF that the 9/11 fairy tale is somehow the gospel truth!

Again, Bigsby, how about you try to refute, POINT BY POINT, all of the evidence brought forth in the following link:

http://wtc7.net/articles/stevenjones_b7_051122.html

Go ahead, give it your best shot...LOL!!

Bigsby, what do you say to the thousands of architects and engineers (including those from multiple websites) who REFUTE the "official position" ? Do you think all of them must be crazy?

Many have said that the 9/11 Commission Report conveniently OMITS and/or sidesteps some very damnable evidence that points directly to the use of thermite (and/or nano thermite) explosives. How else would you explain the FACT that there was red hot, "molten steel" below each of the buildings that continued to emit heat for MONTHS after the buildings fell????? It actually melted the bottom of the rescue and cleanup workers shoes for weeks after 9/11. That is DIRECT EVIDENCE of thermite explosives and the "official story" is completely SILENT about that fact!

Don't you think you at least owe it to yourself to take a hard look at exactly what these competing experts are all talking about??

Truth Seeker says

You say you "I don't have anything invested in either argument"? That's a joke, right?? By the looks of it Bigsby, you've been burning up these forums and seem *VERY* attached to your mistaken BELIEF that the 9/11 fairy tale is somehow the gospel truth!

I'm not vested in it. I'm not a supporter of the Republicans or Bush or even an American. What I do resent is people like you throwing around the sort of comments you have in this thread solely because you're rather attached to an outlandish conspiracy theory. I like the scientific method. I like the fact that the explanation for what happened is uniform across all respected publications. You ignore that and put your trust in Youtube videos and the mistaken belief that because some architects and engineers also share your conspiracy theory that is somehow proof. It's not. As I've said again and again, the vast weight of evidence points to you being very much mistaken.

Truth Seeker says

Many have said that the 9/11 Commission Report conveniently OMITS and/or sidesteps some very damnable evidence that points directly to the use of thermite (and/or nano thermite) explosives. How else would you explain the FACT that there was red hot, "molten steel" below each of the buildings that continued to emit heat for MONTHS after the buildings fell????? It actually melted the bottom of the rescue and cleanup workers shoes for weeks after 9/11. That is DIRECT EVIDENCE of thermite explosives and the "official story" is completely SILENT about that fact!

It actually melted their shoes after weeks? Pretty impressive, how did they avoid burning their feet just out of curiosity? If someone has the technology to retain heat at 2500+ F for that long they could make a fortune. Why don't some of the people with melted shoes patent this and become very rich?

There is no such thing as explosive thermite, even nano thermites. They are cutting agents. The highest detonation velocity anyone has gotten with nano thermites is 40 ms. Explosives have detonation velocities of 8000+ m/s.

Bigsby says

I like the fact that the explanation for what happened is uniform across all respected publications. You ignore that and put your trust in Youtube videos and the mistaken belief that because some architects and engineers also share your conspiracy theory that is somehow proof. It's not. As I've said again and again, the vast weight of evidence points to you being very much mistaken.

Actually Bigsby, the basis for the vast majority of those 'Youtube videos' that you have such a problem with were taken directly from main stream media (MSM) reports from the likes of CNN, CNBC, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. It's the actual video/audio footage of what was reported on and around 9/11/2001 while adding some needed critical thinking to the mix. If you've got a problem with that then I'm not sure what anybody can say to someone like you who chooses to ignore what's right in front of your own nose!

Also, it's not just "some" architects and engineers, it's SEVERAL THOUSAND highly trained individuals who are willing to risk their jobs and professional careers in the name of truth!! That speaks VOLUMES to any but the most hardened viewpoints.

Additionally, you seem to have a very misplaced sense of trust to believe everything you read from the obviously controlled, increasingly suspect, MSM. It is widely known that a very small group of people/families/corporations control most all of the major media in the U.S., U.K., Australia, much of Europe, etc (Murdoch, Soros, GE, NBC, etc, etc). So it's not any huge surprise that those with the most to gain financially will use their influence to 'slant' the news across multiple "respected publications" (let me guess, you must be referring to the Popular Mechanics article that was used to help promote the 'pancake theory'?? LOL!)

Unfortunately, much of the MSM has devolved to become little more than corporate/state sponsored propaganda that artfully mixes a blend of truths, half-truths and lies to promote certain goals and objectives and control the thinking of the masses. Increasingly, it is only the most educationally dumbed-down, gullible members of the public that fall for the "safety in numbers" arguments that you espouse.

Conversely, the smart, aware, pro-active, independent and high-functioning thinkers are increasingly bypassing the MSM and getting their news and information from decentralized (often-times more trustworthy) sources.

The guy who started this very website, Patrick at Patrick.net is a perfect example of this very principle in action! Long before the actual crash in the real estate markets occurred, Patrick was one of the very few voices who publicly went against the grain of "established thought" and warned us against drinking the "kool-aid" espoused by the consistently bullish real estate, banking and home building industries as well as Fed/government sources.

Patrick turned out to be amazingly prescient and correct while all of those PHD's and establishment "experts" turned out to be dead wrong! Same with Copernicus and Galileo - they went against the prevailing, conventional wisdom of a "flat earth" doctrine promoted by the church and changed the world forever in the process.

So Bigsby, don't be so quick to dismiss alternative ideas and thought. Do yourself a favor and OPEN UP YOUR MIND to the possibility that you just might be wrong about 9/11. Begin by reading and reflecting upon the information in the following link as well as all of the other articles and documentaries mentioned by myself and others in this thread:

http://wtc7.net/articles/stevenjones_b7_051122.html

bob2356 says

It actually melted their shoes after weeks? Pretty impressive, how did they avoid burning their feet just out of curiosity? If someone has the technology to retain heat at 2500+ F for that long they could make a fortune. Why don't some of the people with melted shoes patent this and become very rich?

There is no such thing as explosive thermite, even nano thermites. They are cutting agents. The highest detonation velocity anyone has gotten with nano thermites is 40 ms. Explosives have detonation velocities of 8000+ m/s.

Bob2356, you obviously don't have much to work with if you insist upon trying to split hairs about the direct evidence surrounding how thermite was used to help bring down the WTC buildings.

Tell me Bob, why didn't the 911 Commission Report openly discuss, dissect and examine the overwhelming evidence regarding the use of thermite? Wasn't that a rather glaring omission considering all of the photographic, video and trace material evidence??

Again, 3 WTC buildings came down, yet only 2 planes were apparently involved. So if that was supposed to be the definitive report, why did they delay their findings about WTC7??

Answer: they had NO CREDIBLE ANSWERS!

Truth Seeker says

Conversely, the smart, aware, pro-active, independent and high-functioning thinkers are increasingly bypassing the MSM and getting their news and information from decentralized (often-times more trustworthy) sources.

Ah, so there we have it. It is simply an exercise in ego massage on your part. The actual facts have nothing to do with it.

For centuries, two words always dominate minds of politician and big moneymakers: Collateral Damage.

Truth Seeker says

When you follow the money, just about everything comes into focus and suddenly makes sense.

No, the tinfoil probably just fell off your head.

Truth Seeker says

Your "faith-based" viewpoint (trust our position, because we've hired a few experts that will corroborate our silly tale) very quickly gets blown out of the water when you start adding up all of the MANY inconsistencies about what really happened on 9/11

That's hilarious, coming from a person who takes everything he reads on 911truth.org as gospel, and merely parrots exactly what he reads on that website. Talk about a "faith based" position.

Truth Seeker says

Tell me Bob, why didn't the 911 Commission Report openly discuss, dissect and examine the overwhelming evidence regarding the use of thermite? Wasn't that a rather glaring omission considering all of the photographic, video and trace material evidence??

The idea is preposterous.

"As for thermite (a mixture of powdered or granular aluminum metal and powdered iron oxide that burns at extremely high temperatures when ignited), it burns slowly relative to explosive materials and would require several minutes in contact with a massive steel section to heat it to a temperature that would result in substantial weakening. Separate from the WTC towers investigation, NIST researchers estimated that at least 0.13 pounds of thermite would be required to heat each pound of a steel section to approximately 700 degrees Celsius (the temperature at which steel weakens substantially). Therefore, while a thermite reaction can cut through large steel columns, many thousands of pounds of thermite would need to have been placed inconspicuously ahead of time, remotely ignited, and somehow held in direct contact with the surface of hundreds of massive structural components to weaken the building. This makes it an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition.

Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions."

Bigsby says

Conversely, the smart, aware, pro-active, independent and high-functioning thinkers are increasingly bypassing the MSM and getting their news and information from decentralized (often-times more trustworthy) sources.

Ah, so there we have it. It is simply an exercise in ego massage on your part. The actual facts have nothing to do with it.

Bigsby, it's not about ego - just the FACTS which are conveniently overlooked by the press/MSM. Somehow you can't seem to find the forest for the trees and have refused to answer my direct questions based SOLELY ON THE FACTS.

Once again, if you're so damned smart and blindly follow everything you read in the newspapers, why don't you try to articulately answer each of the points brought up in the following website (if you even think you can)?

http://wtc7.net/articles/stevenjones_b7_051122.html

Knock yourself out buddy!

Why??

Homeboy says

Truth Seeker says

Your "faith-based" viewpoint (trust our position, because we've hired a few experts that will corroborate our silly tale) very quickly gets blown out of the water when you start adding up all of the MANY inconsistencies about what really happened on 9/11

That's hilarious, coming from a person who takes everything he reads on 911truth.org as gospel, and merely parrots exactly what he reads on that website. Talk about a "faith based" position.

Actually Homeboy, I don't believe that I've ever even bothered to look at 911truth.org. There are just so many other terrific and informative websites, books and documentaries about what REALLY happened on 9/11 (there is NO shortage of material or controversy) that I guess I haven't ever felt the need to visit that one. But maybe I'll take your suggestion and look into it.

Unlike you Homeboy, some of us have a deeply felt and abiding interest in getting to the actual TRUTH and we don't just automatically and blindly believe everything we read in a newspaper or see on Fox News.

Truly, YOU are the one who is in MAJOR DENIAL if you actually believe everything you've been told according to the 911 Commission Report. Only simple minds can be made to believe that burning kerosene (that burns all day just fine in aircraft engines as well as steel-constructed kerosene heaters) can somehow bring down an entire 80 story building with a modern, solid steel core. And even more amazingly, do it as fast as a rock falling at the speed of gravity!! (so much for the whole "pancake theory" as it completely defies the laws of physics...LOL!

Oh, and let's not forget perhaps the most incredible claim of all - that 3 buildings could be COMPLETELY destroyed (in the exact same manner as a controlled demolition), but using ONLY 2 AIRPLANES(!) This alone stretches credulity far beyond any semblance of rational possibility. And then, if you can somehow wrap your mind around all of that, there are STILL MANY other problems and unexplained inconsistencies with the "official story".

So I guess it would be funny if it weren't so painfully sad that your line of thinking is apparently what's passing for 'American education' and critical thinking these days... Unbelievable!

Truth Seeker says

Actually Homeboy, I don't believe that I've ever even bothered to look at 911truth.org. There are just so many other terrific and informative websites, books and documentaries about what REALLY happened on 9/11 (there is NO shortage of material or controversy) that I guess I haven't ever felt the need to visit that one. But maybe I'll take your suggestion and look into it.

Ha, ha - sure, whatever you say. You just happen to parrot everything on that website. You're not fooling anyone here. We know you got all your conspiracy nonsense from Richard Gage's stupid video that has been debunked god knows how many times. There is no controversy; only a few nutballs dedicated to their silly conspiracy theory. You take Gage's word as gospel, and reject all other evidence. You are the epitome of narrow-mindedness.

Truth Seeker says

Unlike you Homeboy, some of us have a deeply felt and abiding interest in getting to the actual TRUTH and we don't just automatically and blindly believe everything we read in a newspaper or see on Fox News.

No, you just blindly believe everything Richard Gage says, even though he deliberately ignores the facts.

Truth Seeker says

Truly, YOU are the one who is in MAJOR DENIAL if you actually believe everything you've been told according to the 911 Commission Report. Only simple minds can be made to believe that burning kerosene (that burns all day just fine in aircraft engines as well as steel-constructed kerosene heaters) can somehow bring down an entire 80 story building with a modern, solid steel core. And even more amazingly, do it as fast as a rock falling at the speed of gravity!! (so much for the whole "pancake theory" as it completely defies the laws of physics...LOL!

Unlike you, I only believe in things that have been proven. We all saw planes flown into buildings, and then we saw the buildings fall. If I am going to believe otherwise, I would need a good reason to do so. Nobody has given me a good reason to believe otherwise - certainly not some kooks on the internet.

To address your "points", as silly as they are:

To say that jet fuel "burns just fine" all day in planes, is about the dumbest argument I've ever heard. Jet engines burn a small amount of fuel at a time; they do not ignite an entire tank full of fuel. Generally, when the entire fuel tank DOES ignite, the plane explodes and everyone on it dies.

I'm curious as to what your expertise in the "laws of physics" is, that makes you qualified to proclaim that a building cannot fall near the speed of gravity. The obvious visual evidence is that it did. So you seem to be claiming both that the buildings fell near the speed of gravity, and that it is impossible for buildings to fall at the speed of gravity. That makes no sense. If you can prove this to be true, and demonstrate to us what your expertise is that makes you qualified to determine such a thing, I'll be happy to listen. I certainly am not going to believe you just because you say so, because, unlike you, I am open-minded.

Truth Seeker says

Oh, and let's not forget perhaps the most incredible claim of all - that 3 buildings could be COMPLETELY destroyed (in the exact same manner as a controlled demolition), but using ONLY 2 AIRPLANES(!) This alone stretches credulity far beyond any semblance of rational possibility. And then, if you can somehow wrap your mind around all of that, there are STILL MANY other problems and unexplained inconsistencies with the "official story".

So I guess it would be funny if it weren't so painfully sad that your line of thinking is apparently what's passing for 'American education' and critical thinking these days... Unbelievable!

First, the buildings were not destroyed in "the exact manner of a controlled demolition". In fact, it wasn't anything like a controlled demolition at all. Feel free to view my earlier link to a video explaining the difference. Somehow I don't think you'll watch it, because it's not part of your religion of Richard Gage worship.

As for WTC7 falling without being hit by an airplane - it was hit by debris from the tower, which started fires in multiple areas, which burned unarrested for some time. And there WAS a difference. Since WTC7 didn't have vital structural members knocked out by airplanes, it did NOT fall at the speed of gravity. It fell considerably slower than that, despite Richard Gage's lies to the contrary. Now, if I were going to believe some convoluted theory to the contrary, I would need a really good reason. You have not provided a good reason. Just SAYING something does not make it true. If you want me to believe that what happened in the footage I saw did not happen, you need to PROVE it, which you have not done.

I do agree with you on one thing, though. What's passing for critical thinking is quite alarming. When people like you get all your information from one website, and refuses to listen to anyone else, it's a sad day for America.

Homeboy says

The idea is preposterous.

Oh REALLY? Preposterous??? In my mind, you have just completely disqualified yourself from this discussion with that ignorant suggestion Homeboy.

The quote you mention includes at least one fatal error, specifically the conclusion that "This makes it [thermite] an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition."

On the contrary, you need to watch the excellent documentary, '911 Mysteries' as it clearly shows how the building security systems were taken off line (and bomb sniffing dogs removed) to allow for the systematic preparations with explosives that happened for WEEKS prior to "showtime" on 9/11/01. That event was nothing more than a sophisticated deception using controlled demolition and you apparently are one of the many who actually fell for it.

Far from being "preposterous", it is actually HIGHLY PROBABLE that thermite (or nano thermite) was used to cut through the steel support beams.

Nothing else could possibly account for:

- the extremely high temperatures (molten steel) that lasted for WEEKS at the base of the towers.

- the visible, burning metallic dust that video evidence clearly shows falling from the buildings prior to the actual descent.

- the pyroclastic shock waves from each of the buildings (strongly indicative of thermite-induced, *VERY* high temperatures that reams of video footage show obviously engulfing pedestrians, vehicles and everything in it's path.

Yet in spite of your "preposterous" claims to the contrary, there is a growing, critical mass of people who are not afraid of looking at the truth, people who are slowly coming around to the understanding that 9/11 was designed to elicit U.S. support for the OBSCENELY EXPENSIVE, multi-$$TRILLION dollar wars in the Middle East. (again, follow the money!)

So you can make your outlandish claims and bury your head in the sand all you want Homeboy. But in the end, the TRUTH WILL PREVAIL !!

Truth Seeker says

Bigsby, it's not about ego - just the FACTS which are conveniently overlooked by the press/MSM. Somehow you can't seem to find the forest for the trees and have refused to answer my direct questions based SOLELY ON THE FACTS.

Once again, if you're so damned smart and blindly follow everything you read in the newspapers, why don't you try to articulately answer each of the points brought up in the following website (if you even think you can)?

http://wtc7.net/articles/stevenjones_b7_051122.html

Knock yourself out buddy!

Why??

Why would I refute them? Last time I checked my postgrad degree wasn't in a related field. I suggest that you find your rebuttals from experts - the internet is awash with them, but you obviously have chosen to ignore that glaring fact.

Homeboy says

Truth Seeker says

Actually Homeboy, I don't believe that I've ever even bothered to look at 911truth.org. There are just so many other terrific and informative websites, books and documentaries about what REALLY happened on 9/11 (there is NO shortage of material or controversy) that I guess I haven't ever felt the need to visit that one. But maybe I'll take your suggestion and look into it.

Ha, ha - sure, whatever you say. You just happen to parrot everything on that website. You're not fooling anyone here. We know you got all your conspiracy nonsense from Richard Gage's stupid video that has been debunked god knows how many times. There is no controversy; only a few nutballs dedicated to their silly conspiracy theory. You take Gage's word as gospel, and reject all other evidence. You are the epitome of narrow-mindedness.

OK, I can clearly see the problem Homeboy, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE F*CK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT !!!

Over multiple postings on this thread you keep ERRONEOUSLY attributing Richard Gage to "911truth.org". Actually, Homeboy, he is associated with "ae911truth.org" and THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WEBSITES !!

Dumbazz!

Furthermore, since you don't really have any actual FACTS to disclaim ANY of Gage's assertions, you instead resort to painting him with a very broad brush by tossing out baseless claims that he has somehow been discredited.

NOTHING could be further from the truth!
NOTHING Gage says has EVER been disproven!
NOTHING Gage says has EVER been "debunked god knows how many times" (that one is completely laughable!)

Folks, HOMEBOY is transparently attempting to smear good people like Richard Gage (anyone who dares to bring up those inconvenient truths) while offering absolutely NO PROOF of his own whatsoever!!

Lacking any sort of credible evidence to the contrary, HOMEBOY resorts to just 'shooting the messenger' while completely IGNORING all of very inconvenient FACTS brought up on ae911Truth.org !!

This is classic troll behavior and very clear evidence that Homeboy is ideologically bankrupt!

Zlxr says

Truth Seeker - Bigsby and a few others really just want to kick someone's ass but they can't for some reason - so they pick fights and push buttons.

We aren't the ones on here pushing the conspiracy theories, so who exactly is it that's looking for attention?
Zlxr says

Could be the Gov't even hired him to prevent the spread of the truth. They really do like to hire dumb asses.

Good grief, and you talk about us looking for a fight? Yes, yes , the government obviously hired us to come onto Patrick.net to refute the cobblers that you and your ilk are spouting. Of course, it's so obvious. Damn, at least your posts are good for a laugh.

Truth Seeker says

Over multiple postings on this thread you keep ERRONEOUSLY attributing Richard Gage to "911truth.org". Actually, Homeboy, he is associated with "ae911truth.org" and THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WEBSITES !!

Dumbazz!

Hilarious. You couldn't make it up. Well, I suppose YOU could.

Truth Seeker says

OK, I can clearly see the problem Homeboy, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE F*CK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT !!!

Over multiple postings on this thread you keep ERRONEOUSLY attributing Richard Gage to "911truth.org". Actually, Homeboy, he is associated with "ae911truth.org" and THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WEBSITES !!

Dumbazz!

Wow, you are truly clueless. I know those are 2 different sites. I don't care. They both contain the same stupid theories advanced by Gage. You are regurgitating the same nonsense as all the other brain dead conspiracy nutcases.

Truth Seeker says

NOTHING could be further from the truth!
NOTHING Gage says has EVER been disproven!
NOTHING Gage says has EVER been "debunked god knows how many times" (that one is completely laughable!)

Folks, HOMEBOY is transparently attempting to smear good people like Richard Gage (anyone who dares to bring up those inconvenient truths) while offering absolutely NO PROOF of his own whatsoever!!

And here is proof of exactly what I was saying. Gage is your god. You unquestioningly believe everything he says, and dismiss out-of-hand all evidence to the contrary.

And since you obviously don't understand logic or science, let me explain this to you. If you are going to present outlandish claims that you got from Gage's video, it is contingent on YOU to prove them. A theory is not true by default until disproven. You seem to be confusing science with religion.

Truth Seeker says

Folks, HOMEBOY is transparently attempting to smear good people like Richard Gage (anyone who dares to bring up those inconvenient truths) while offering absolutely NO PROOF of his own whatsoever!!

Proof of what? We all saw videos of planes flying into the buildings and then the buildings falling. That's pretty good evidence that some terrorists flew planes into buildings and caused them to fall down.

Now, if YOU are claiming some sort of extremely complicated, mysterious secret conspiracy that involved planting explosives in a secure building without anyone involved ever talking about, and deliberately making the buildings fall down in an allegedly "controlled" fashion ("controlled" as opposed to what never being made clear, and why they would want it to look controlled I guess being a mystery), and then having planes fly into them (again raising the question of why they would want to do this if they already planned on blowing them up with explosives), you can be damn well sure that YOU need to prove it if you expect anyone to disregard the obvious visual evidence and the opinions of countless experts.

Homeboy says

Truth Seeker says

Oh, and let's not forget perhaps the most incredible claim of all - that 3 buildings could be COMPLETELY destroyed (in the exact same manner as a controlled demolition), but using ONLY 2 AIRPLANES(!) This alone stretches credulity far beyond any semblance of rational possibility. And then, if you can somehow wrap your mind around all of that, there are STILL MANY other problems and unexplained inconsistencies with the "official story".

So I guess it would be funny if it weren't so painfully sad that your line of thinking is apparently what's passing for 'American education' and critical thinking these days... Unbelievable!

First, the buildings were not destroyed in "the exact manner of a controlled demolition". In fact, it wasn't anything like a controlled demolition at all. Feel free to view my earlier link to a video explaining the difference. Somehow I don't think you'll watch it, because it's not part of your religion of Richard Gage worship.

Wrong again Homeboy!! Quite frankly, I had never even heard of Richard Gage prior to this discussion. You are so completely off the beam with your "worship" comment that it's obvious that it is YOU who is fixated on him.

But now that I've been introduced to the guy, let's give credit where credit is due! He has apparently been the organizing force behind the 'Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth' site which I was familiar with. Yet his organization has steadily grown to over 1700 PROFESSIONAL educated EXPERTS who are willing to put their jobs and reputations on the line in the search for truth.

To me, that speaks volumes and their HIGHLY ARTICULATE MESSAGE says MUCH more than any motley collection of PR guys hired to produce propaganda videos in a desperate attempt to try to shoot down the truth.