patrick.net

This is pointless. What do you mean by pulverized? Were you down on the site examining the state of the concrete after an 8 hour inferno and a building collapse? What do you expect the concrete to be like? What was it like? How is that supposed to be unusual given the circumstances? Why are you so completely changing the topic?
I think the issue about how a huge amount of explosives and all the necessary wiring managed to stay completely intact throughout a prolonged fire is a rather important issue. In fact, I think it points to a very obvious conclusion.

Squatting in East CoCo says

For all of you deniers.

Do you believe the official story www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/ 100%?

Do you believe the engineers at www.ae911truth.org/ are 100% wrong?

I still do not want to believe our government is involved in murder, coverup, and false flag attacks. Maybe they are trying to protect us from some bigger truth?

And for all you conspiracy theorists, how do you explain the explosives and wiring surviving an 8 hour fire that engulfed a large part of the building?

Oh for FFS, 'Rockets at the WTC.' Moronic crap of the worst kind.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Bigsby says

What do you mean by pulverized? Were you down on the site examining the state of the concrete after an 8 hour inferno and a building collapse?

The big clouds of pulverized concrete that filled lower Manhattan, from river to river.

Oh, you mean when enormous skyscrapers collapsed, they created huge clouds of debris. I'm stunned.

bgamall4 says

For you guys worried about the big fires in WTC7 this video makes the case that the fires were very small, and listen to the expert:

&feature=related

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

Oh my, an appeal to authority and a selective video. I'm convinced! Or not.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Again, answer the question? 100% either way? Or is the truth somewhere in the middle?

I believe that the buildings came down because a bunch of religious fundamentalists flew a couple of planes into the WTC. Does that answer your question? And what about those fire resistant explosives and wiring? A bit far-fetched, wouldn't you say? Actually, scratch that, I've seen your posts.

Squatting in East CoCo says

I do have questions about the www.ae911truth.org but their arguments are compelling.

To you, not to me.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Bigsby says

Squatting in East CoCo says

I do have questions about the www.ae911truth.org but their arguments are compelling.

To you, not to me.

What about the NIST report? Do you accept their findings 100%?

What a pointless question. I haven't gone over it with a fine toothcomb. Whether I accept it 100% or not is totally irrelevant. I don't accept what you are arguing. At all.

bgamall4 says

That is your problem, not mine. You wanted more info on how the fires in WTC7 affected the explosives. I gave you the video as an answer and you are having trouble with it. So what? It is not my problem.

Er, except there are plenty of other videos that show WTC7 being engulfed by rather more than 'very small' fires. Talk about not believing your own eyes.

bgamall4 says

And as for the towers, squibs, which are only caused by explosives, were seen clearly below the collapsing floors. Squibs are those little puffs of smoke below the collapse. They only happen with explosives.

Strange, I didn't know explosives were the only known cause of little puffs of smoke.

bgamall4 says

Bigsby says

bgamall4 says

That is your problem, not mine. You wanted more info on how the fires in WTC7 affected the explosives. I gave you the video as an answer and you are having trouble with it. So what? It is not my problem.

Er, except there are plenty of other videos that show WTC7 being engulfed by rather more than 'very small' fires. Talk about not believing your own eyes.

Show them instead of just talking. You didn't even bother to watch the video did you? The video lasted 4 minutes and you posted a reply in two minutes. Don't waste my time little boy. Be a brave little boy and watch the videos.

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

Scroll up. I've already posted one before. Obviously your video viewing is very selective. And I've watched the videos. It's time I will never get back.

Give me fucking strength. Look at what was happening above those little puffs of smoke. Do you see a possible connection?

bgamall4 says

Again Bigsby, you didn't watch the whole video as it is 9 minutes long and you responded to my posting of it in 5 minutes.

You are arguing against yourself, certainly not against any proof I show, since you don't even watch it.

Serious character flaw, Bigsby.

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

I'm not wasting my time watching an entire video of that nonsense. I've seen variations of that sort of crap many times. More than likely I've seen that video several times before as well. A few minutes of it and you can see the fatal flaw in your argument. Did you notice anything with all those controlled explosions? Did you notice how distinctly they contrasted with what happened on 9/11? I suppose that aspect is irrelevant to you.

bgamall4 says

The connection was that the squibbs undermined the towers. You need to watch and study instead of responding before you even watch the videos.

Squib videos have done the rounds a million times. What exactly was new in this one? Sweet FA. What you show for 9/11 and what happens in a CD are two entirely different things. You idiots show the bloody things one after the other. 'Look, look, look at these CDs. Look at the squibs. Now look at 9/11!' Yes, I'm fucking looking. They are entirely bloody different.

bgamall4 says

You are arguing against yourself, certainly not against any proof I show, since you don't even watch it.

Serious character flaw, Bigsby.

Serious character flaw? Ha. Everyone knows what's in these videos. It's the same bloody arguments again and again. Do I have to sit through several minutes of different controlled explosions to get the gist of what a video is about? I don't think so. That's why these videos have a control bar - so you can fast forward through the painful music and repetitive nonsense and get a damn accurate idea of the crap that is being peddled. Or do you think I missed something important by only spending 3 minutes instead of 4 watching this nonsense?

bgamall4 says

I think you all should see this entertaining video and then look at WTC towers and WTC7 in the context of these explosions.

Why should we watch those? First you said it was exactly like a controlled demolition, then you said it was different than a controlled demolition. You contradicted yourself. You change your argument depending upon what's convenient to you at the moment. You are full of shit. End of story.

bgamall4 says

NIST ignored the squibs in WTC7 in the report, an obvious coverup.

There were no squibs. The NIST did not ignore the puffs of smoke (and debris); they explained it perfectly.

bgamall4 says

I don't believe you do. You didn't watch them.

I've been posting throughout this thread. I've posted in response to 9/11 nut jobs a number of times before. You all have the same arguments and the same videos. You seem to directly avoid responding to the most pertinent questions and just post up another Youtube video.
Again, how could the explosives survive a fire that raged for the better part of 8 hours? And please explain to everyone the glaring differences between all those CDs posted up in that video (the video I've watched) and what actually happened on 9/11.

Also explain why Larry Silverstein would admit on camera that he was part of a secret conspiracy.

You cannot convince media programmed 'people' to think for themselves. But good try!

This idea also is present in trends. Housing bubble frenzy. What about the german persecution of the jew? All media, and herd mentality. What terrible things people follow just because it is the accepted norm.

People feel safe believing what the majority crowd believes. Remember the earth is flat. That guy must of been a nut to think it was round!

bgamall4 says

I received a call at my work one time and the official from DC said, out of the blue, that we went into Iraq for oil.

I'm totally impressed that you are so important that officials from DC call you up to tell you what were obviously state secrets like we went to Iraq for oil. It's just amazing that no one had any awareness at all that Iraq having second largest oil reserves on the planet had anything at all to do with the president (most of his family fortune from oil) and vice president (former ceo of halliburton one of the really big players in the oil business) going to Iraq. I''m shocked at this information I tell you, just shocked.

How did you get to be this important?

bgamall4 says

Remember the earth was flat people were in the majority, but they were the nut jobs.

Pretty weak at history aren't we? The earth was know to be round since Pythagoras 6th century BC. Flat earthers have been in the minority in the western world since Socrates. Google the myth of the flat earth. Then try another argument, this one doesn't hunt.

Squatting in East CoCo says

I find it disturbing that you accept the official story without reading it.

Did you reject www.ae911truth.org without reading it?

Ho, ho, ho, point me to where I said I hadn't read it. Last time I checked, I'm not a specialist in this field, rather like you. You asked a stupid question about 100% accepting the report and I gave you my answer, but in your world, you appear to create the answers you want to hear. And I've looked at that ridiculous website and watched a good number of the videos you conspiracist wingnuts have posted up and I know where I think the overwhelming weight of evidence lies, and I'm afraid it isn't with you.

bgamall4 says

No, believing that the towers did not come down by explosives is the nut job. Remember the earth was flat people were in the majority, but they were the nut jobs. You are a flat earther because you can't find me a video showing a fire taking down a building like a demolition does and you know you can't find it. You lie to yourself Grigsby.

Sure, sure, because believing that the towers were not brought down by explosives (and the overwhelming evidence in favour of that) is exactly like flat Earthers. And by the way, most educated people didn't actually believe in the idea of a flat Earth.
And I'm sorry, but it isn't me that's lying to myself, it's you. You seem extraordinarily invested in your claims, invested at the expense of science and common sense.
And I notice that you still haven't addressed the issue of how the explosives survived the fire and how a few of your 'squibs' suddenly equate to the sort of CDs that you seem to want to draw attention to. It's like saying 'look at this photograph of a UFO, it's so clear, it's so obvious,' and all everyone else can see are the lights and silhouette of a 747. You simply want to see what you want to see and no rational argument can counter that. This conspiracy theory is your religion, the reverse scientific method your God.

bgamall4 says

Come up with the video that shows buildings on fire implode like demolitions? We are waiting and growing tired of your inability to provide proof of your position.

The reason you cannot provide it is because you don't have it. Why don't you be quiet until you provide the proof? Provide the proof or I will put you on ignore, Bigsby.

How many large skyscrapers have suffered uncontrolled fires, have been hit by large planes? You have your conclusion and you entirely ignore any evidence that doesn't support that. And please put me on ignore because I'm getting tired of reading your bullshit.
And you STILL haven't answered the two very glaring questions that have been asked of you multiple times.

bgamall4 says

You are the wingnut, thinking you are Santa Claus. Anyone who uses ho,ho,ho in writing has to be a wingnut. You have no idea how really stupid you sound and how stupid you are.

Remind me again what the consensus opinion is among structural engineers. Remind me again of all the 'experts' that believe in your conspiracy theory. If I'm a wingnut, then what the fuck are you?

bgamall4 says

Lol, Bob, I was working in a hotel and the guy had to spill his guts. I was the guy he spilled it to! But it changed my whole view of government back in 2005. I could have lied and said I was important. I missed my chance. :)

Sure he did.

bgamall4 says

I am not talking about about Socrates. I am talking about the people who were surrounding Copernicus and he was in the minority. As Wikipedia said:

"Copernicus seemed to be undermining the whole system of the philosophy of science at the time." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus

That's not what you said in your initial post, is it?

Copernicus lived in 1500-ies? Then he could not be proving anything to anybody, since the Antikythera mechanism, dated to 1st century BC (1600 years prior) proves beyond any doubt that even around 100 BC, the ancients already knew not only how Solar system works, but were perfectly and routinely able to calculate exact positions of planets and moon phased for any time in past or future, based on heliocentric model.

So, what exactly did Galilei and Copernicus do to further our understanding?

Let me see... I think they played the same exact role as those 19 Arabs. They provided a plausible explanation to those who were still ignorant of facts of self-evident nature.

bgamall4 says

Bigsby says

If I'm a wingnut, then what the fuck are you?

A guy who obviously trusts what I see. You still don't have video proving fires cause implosions. And, you are ignoring it and posting crap instead.

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

Every single one of the videos you've posted of the WTC buildings on fire shows footage of how fires can cause a collapse.

You, however, seem to be much more taken by videos that show a few puffs of smoke and then trying to make out that they are exactly like the videos of the CDs you've also been posting. It's just strange that they don't look remotely the same.

And you still haven't answered the two questions you were asked.

My God, you really do see what you want to see, don't you? The bloody 'explosion' happened after the collapse began. It's there right in front of your bloody eyes.

Squatting in East CoCo says

Bigsby says

My God, you really do see what you want to see, don't you? The bloody 'explosion' happened after the collapse began. It's there right in front of your bloody eyes

What do you suppose fueled the explosion?

What do you mean what fueled the 'explosion'? The building was on fire. The building collapsed. What effect do you think the downward draft had? And for crying out loud, controlled demolitions are very obvious and make a very loud noise. Show me the video that clearly demonstrates that because not one of those posted so far comes anywhere near it.

bgamall4 says

Yeah Homeboy. You are a boy. If you were a man you would man up and believe the truth.

Wow, what a convincing argument. You are a fucking genius.

I said there were regular demolitions, like WTC7 and the obvious top down demolition of the towers.

Oh, so they're not "controlled" demolitions anymore, they're "regular" demolitions. Those must be the kind that don't look anything like controlled demolitions.

Look at the videos and quite being so rude. When people huff and puff like you do they are out of ideas and are challenged. You are being challenged homeboy.

Um, yeah, right. You just backpedaled on the central thesis of your theory, that the videos allegedly look like controlled demolitions. And then you called me names. It's clear who's out of ideas.

bgamall4 says

Come up with the video that shows buildings on fire implode like demolitions? We are waiting and growing tired of your inability to provide proof of your position.

They didn't implode. They fell down.

Show us your proof that skyscrapers normally topple over sideways.

Also, answer the rest of the questions we asked you.

bgamall4 says

No, one was 480 feet below the falling levels.

No, it wasn't.

bgamall4 says

I have no idea what you are talking about. Skyscrapers don't come down by fire, period. Imploded skyscrapers fall into their own footprint unless the detonation is top down, like the two towers.

Again, good night Homeboy.

Good night? Dear me. You've demonstrated nothing but the paucity of your argument. You keep asking us to show a skyscraper coming down as a consequence of a fire. You keep posting videos of 3 of them. You cannot demonstrate otherwise. Nothing you have posted up comes even remotely close to being convincing. You have your conclusion. You see things that no right thinking person sees. You argue that is proof. It isn't.

bgamall4 says

Goodnight Homeboy. Get the proof of any steel reinforced skyscraper coming down like a demolition but by fire alone and we will talk again sometime. Otherwise, we won't, at least about this subject

Well, that's a problem. There aren't any other examples of a full jet plane tank of airplane fuel being poured inside of a skyscraper and then set on fire, is there?

Some fires burn hotter than others. There literally is no comparison.

bgamall4 says

The jet fuel could not cause pulverization of concrete above the floors affected by the fuel. You have no explanation for that pulverization. None

Hey--I'm no expert. I'd say an explosion might cause pulverization of concrete though.

It was defective chinese steel...
bgamall4 says

tatupu70 says

Hey--I'm no expert. I'd say an explosion might cause pulverization of concrete though.

That is what our point is. There were explosives preplanted in the buildings. You just made my case. Thanks.

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

bgamall4 says

Lol, Bob, I was working in a hotel and the guy had to spill his guts. I was the guy he spilled it to! But it changed my whole view of government back

Gee, there must have been at least 3 or 4 people left in the world by 2005 that still believed the war in Iraq wasn't about oil. It's pretty good thing this mysterious guy who was obviously had inner access to the highest levels of government found one of them to spill his guts to. Was is condi, rummy, or darth cheney doing the remorseful spilling?

Squatting in East CoCo says

Was it a lone gunman that killed JFK?

Yep

Did the North Vietnamese attack us?

No

Did terrorists bring down the towers?

Yes. In fact, this must be true by definition...since it was an act of terrorism, whoever did it was a terrorist. But the answer to the question you are trying to ask is: Yes

Did Iraq have WMD's?

No

Hope that helps.