patrick.net

DL, I am 51 and came to this understanding in my mid-20s. We now have a financialized, militarized, deindustrialized, feminized economy and society, yet women, irrespective of education and class, are still socialized to "have it all", which includes career, their money to spend, children, AND to be granted by men and society the choice to be dependent upon a man's physical protection, earnings, and commitment for life to obligations no sane person would ever commit.

Women have been socialized to "have it all" like men when few men have ever been able to "have it all". Women have been duped into becoming slaves to their desires which men cannot satisfy.

True women's liberation will be when men are liberated from the responsibility to support, defend, and sacrifice everything for women who cannot possibly know what is to be deserving of such an obligation by men.

Besides, the Hebrew tribal desert sky god is one loathsome, angry, violent, genocidal, jealous SOB. Humanity would be far better off ridding our minds of that monstrous deity.

You see 20 almost 20.

The only thing I would say to correct your vision speaks to sanctity and duty and I think that women would recognize that they, as a sub group of society, if I can call them that, are deserving of man's sacrifice and should shut up and accept it.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

If you agree with the above 5 points of morality, you will always take the position that equality aside, women, after children, will always have the seats in the lifeboats.

I think men have a duty to the womb of life, so to speak.

Regards
DL

The traditional arrangement of men as providers for women simply follows from basic biology. The religious justification for it came later.

Women are vulnerable when pregnant, and when they have small children. It takes a lot of calories to feed a pregnant woman, and it takes a lot of time to look after small children. For the children to survive, women need assistance.

Who is going to provide that assistance? Most cultures look no further than the father, but there are other possibilities. It is fairly common in "primitive" cultures for a woman's brother to have that responsibility. This is especially true in cultures where paternity is very uncertain. Men are not eager to put a lot of work into children that may not be their own, but maternal uncles know for sure that they have the same mother as their sister, and that their sister is the mother of her own children.

The Mosuo people in China have an even more extreme system, where all the land and houses are owned by women, and families are all matrilineal. So you're born in your grandmother's house, where your grandmother, your mother, and her sisters take care of you. You stay there your whole life. Men just have some peripheral roles. There is no marriage.

Population overshoot, Peak Oil, falling net energy and vital resources per capita, and what Herman Daly refers to as a "full world" will condition, and has conditioned, the human ape to increasing competition for resources, space, mates, status, and mass-social cultural memes to achieve same more so than anytime in our evolution as a species in the coming century.

http://skil.org/Qxtras_folder-2/rapidpopdeclineorbust.html

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/nineteen-four/tsc_19_4_duncan.pdf

http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html

https://www.box.com/s/c61962d2ff76303a3b53

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5954

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-how-and-why-sex-differences/201111/how-avoid-population-overshoot-and-collapse

Before the end of the Maunder Minimum, the onset of the capitalist imperialism/colonialism, discovery and utilization of fossil fuels, and the Industrial Revolution, human ape population grew at 0.2-0.45%/year. Since the 18th century, population growth has averaged 2-4 times that rate, and 1.6% since 1950, which is a doubling time of just 40 years.

The greatest bubble in world history is not stock or unreal estate prices, money supply, gov't spending, or CEO salaries; rather, it is population growth. The human ape species is now growing at a doubling time far exceeding the time required for the ecosystem to replenish forests, grasslands, and watersheds.

Mathematically and thermodynamically, all bubbles burst and return to the level at which the unsustainable faster-than-exponential rate of growth commenced. Regrettably, this means that at some point during the next 2-3 fertility cycles of the human apes' females (~75-80 to 100-120 years), population will peak and crash, taking the population back to below 1 billion.

https://www.box.com/s/i0ksnta80zk8zjgdtd72

https://www.box.com/s/s4tr3y5yaad9g8cnacin

Today, US bank assets are now at 130% of private GDP, 200% of public and private wages, and 220% of local, state, and federal gov't receipts. Thus, the banksters have legal claim to all labor, profits, rentier income, and gov't receipts.

While most of us are unaware, the owners of the banks, and thus the gov't, have claims on all "money" income and assets of the US in perpetuity. Growth of GDP, wages, and gov't spending after debt service per capita is no longer possible.

What has this to do with the topic? Everything. Fossil fuels permitted the human ape species to grow at a rate well beyond the planet's capacity to sustain even a fraction of today's population at a socially desirable level of material standard of consumption and well-being. We are biologically, psycho-emotionally, thermodynamically, and exergetically programmed for overpopulation and eventual extinction of 90%+ of our fellow human apes, not unlike bacteria, yeast, lemmings, and deer populations in a finite space.

Thus, for the first time in our evolution as self-aware organisms, we are faced with the reality that there are far too many of us for even a fraction of us to live at the exergetic levels we have been conditioned to expect. Those at the top of the evolutionary hierarchy of resource, information, knowledge, techno-scientific, wealth, income, and political power flows have known this for decades and have no intention of sharing scarce resources with the vast majority of the rest of us.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069530/

Every female or couple who today bears a child, or children, is bringing a life out of the planet into a world of per-capita scarcity, hyper-competition, shortages, anxiety, fear, war, violence, and premature death. Having children in this context is a "sin", not unlike the conditions portraying in the 1970s film "Z.P.G." at the link above.

Therefore, before the century is out, as many as 90%+ of us and our progeny will cease to exist as a result of increasing incidents of famine, disease, water shortages, grid collapse, gov't defaults, racial/ethnic/religious violence, war, genocide, price inflation, murder, falling birth rate, infant mortality, and falling average lifespans.

The cause of our travails will not be some fanciful conspiracy, Satan, demons, tribal desert sky god's vengeance, or ideology but us and our desire to reproduce and consume in excess of the planet's finite ecosystem's capacity.

Population is among the last taboos. That we cannot discuss it, and thus rationally deal with the consequences of overpopulation, means that we will not address the causes of our problems and thus will suffer the consequences on an unprecedented scale.

Patrick

No argument on the variety of societies.

All you have pointed out is how self-serving in some cases men are and how the altruism within families will enhance the passing on of genes.

Common fare that does not speak to why men will not do justice and give equality to all.

Regards
DL

Freeman

What does all that have to do with equality?

Sure, you have shown the path that got us here but not why, on that path, men have subjugated women.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Sure, you have shown the path that got us here but not why, on that path, men have subjugated women.

Until a few decades ago or probably a century or two ago, it was a very physical world, where physical strength was required for many tasks. Men did a lot of hard, physical work and took a lot of the risks-wether that be ploughing the fields, war or other such heavy labour.

Women did tasks more suited to their physical strength. Also a single man can have hundreds of children, but a woman can only have one -or twins, triplets-etc at a time and pregnancy, maternal care etc took up a big chunk of the time. There was a reason for women to be kept from certain professions-else the whole tribe could be wiped away-if all the women went to war.

In today's world, physical strength is irrelevant and women and men have the same advantages-so they work in the same jobs and there is really no difference between a man and a woman. But it is the women who have subjugated men with their obscene laws.

In the west today, women have control over all aspects of a man's life. One child and you have to pay obscene amounts in child support, allegations of domestic violence gets you thrown out of your own house-even before guilt is established. Non-payment of these obscene amounts of child support gets a man thrown in jail with no due process. The government even gets to decide how much time you spend with your kids and how long and what you can and can't do. Never in history has governemnt grown so big, where it controls every family and has rules governing each family, down to the last penny and minute.

In some states, even if the child is not yours and you prove it by DNA, you still are forced to fork over child support. You get no say in how the money is spent-just pay and shut up. You have no way to discipline the kids and your ex wife could be blowing off your child support on hot young men and you have no say in the matter. All she has to do is go to court and file some motion and you have to retain lawyers and pay huge costs.

However I believe the feminists are relenting a bit-only because some women are beginning to face what men have faced a lot. They are more successful than their men and so the tables have turned. Then other women are part of what is called the second wives club-where their income is calculated in the alimony and child support payments to the first ex wife and they are forced to fork over moneyto the ex wife. The latter only happens in some states.

In the western world, it is the men who are subjugated-turned into living, breathing ATMs by women who can speak any lie in the courts and faces almost no reprecussions. Here the government gives the women the choice of being equal by mandates and laws and then mandates that if they choose to stay at home -they be treated like exalted princesses who must have it all and have a lifelong income. A man who chooses to stay at home is treated as a bum and asked to get a job and support the women and kids and in many states, they will throw you in jail But a woman faces no such thing.

These women want to have it all-full rights, equality-but absolutely no risk, responsibility and make the man pay for the pitfalls for their choices.

I loathe the democrats-becuase they have pandered to the feminists and actively engage in this dynamic. Look at the whole birth control controversy-Obama had four years to do it and he did it a few months before the elections and the repubs were dumb enough to take the bait. But the repubs want to take us back to the last century and that ain't gonna cut it. What a sorry choice we have-at least for men.

lostand confused

If men took responsibility for their children voluntarily then the courts would not have to impose sanctions against them.

I know many deadbeat dads. I know a lot less deadbeat moms.

Only a fool would bitch because he had to pay for his children instead of letting the state and other men foot the bill.

Being Canadian, I care little for your weird political system but I do support your women against the oppression of your right wing fools.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/-b_lvSQK4MI

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

lostand confused
If men took responsibility for their children voluntarily then the courts would not have to impose sanctions against them.
I know many deadbeat dads. I know a lot less deadbeat moms.
Only a fool would bitch because he had to pay for his children instead of letting the state and other men foot the bill.
Being Canadian, I care little for your weird political system but I do support your women against the oppression of your right wing fools.

Yeah right, make a man pay 50k a month for 18 years and call it child support. Basic stuff-man has to pay-half-everything else is a choice. When you raise your own kids , you decide what they get to spend and how they live-not the govt. if the women wants to give them luxuries-let her earn it and splurge. Why is the govt in everybody's business?

Of course there are more deadbeat dads. Over 80% of custody goes to men and only in rare cases, like Brittany Spears public breakdown, does the man get custody-or if the woman runs away. Where is the equality in that? I am suprised you didn't pull the misogyny card-that is what the feminists do, whenever a man demands his equal rights.

If a man can afford 50k a month and bitches about child support, I will give him sympathy when pigs fly and as to government getting into people's business, what do you think they are voted in to do? Not be in your business ---- but be in your vagina the way the Right wants to do is ok?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

If a man can afford 50k a month and bitches about child support, I will give him sympathy when pigs fly and as to government getting into peoples business, waht do you think they are voted in to do? Not be in your business ---- but be in your vagina the way the Right wants to do is ok?

Typical feminist. What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine and if you don't give it to me, you are a deadbeat who needs to be jailed to avenge the mythical wrongs of the great patriarchy.

You say it is ok to be in your business-except if you are a woman-then you can't be. Typical feminism-regulate everyone, throw every man in jail for not meeting some arbitary standards-but don't use the same law against me.

lostand confused says

Greatest I am says

If a man can afford 50k a month and bitches about child support, I will give him sympathy when pigs fly and as to government getting into peoples business, waht do you think they are voted in to do? Not be in your business ---- but be in your vagina the way the Right wants to do is ok?

Typical feminist. What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine and if you don't give it to me, you are a deadbeat who needs to be jailed to avenge the mythical wrongs of the great patriarchy.

You say it is ok to be in your business-except if you are a woman-then you can't be. Typical feminism-regulate everyone, throw every man in jail for not meeting some arbitary standards-but don't use the same law against me.

Who is primarily responsible for the law of the land?
Men are.

You have a problem with the law and blame women.
Afraid to tackle the real culprit I see.

Or are you insulted because the law caused you to pay for your children?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Who is primarily responsible for the law of the land?
Men are.
You have a problem with the law and blame women.
Afraid to tackle the real culprit I see.
Or are you insulted because the law caused you to pay for your children?
Regards
DL

Aaah the let me try and weasel out of it by trying to make it personal trick. Nope. All these silly laws were passed at the urging of feminists-who claim they want equality-but in reality want to have it all.

Nice try-you were the one saying you would only have sympathy for a man paying 50k a month in child support, only when pigs fly. That clearly tells me your attitude about taking money from a man. Shameless.

Since feminists keep talking about the great patriarchy-of course one will referance the laws. The law that makes 97% of alimony paid from men to women and over 80% of child custody to the women, or even in some states, where men have to pay child support to kids that they have proven by DNA to be not their kids. get a job and go to work-just like any man whose industry has been offshored.

So not only can a women lie and cheat, she gets paid for it-the law . Any attempt to change alimony laws and the feminists fight tooth and nail and feminists were the ones to introduce the palimony laws. Feminists have taken the once great institution of marraige and turned it ino a giant whorehouse-with the govt, police and the court system as the pimps/thugs. Of course nowadays, you don't even have to be married to be forced to part with your money-you just have to live together and the woman/man can sue you. As I said, the feminists are dropping some of their opposition, because nowadays women are also being snared by these mercenary laws. I guess when the ratio equalizes or women make the majority of alimony payers or child support payers, the feminists will be the first ones screaming to repeal these laws and rail against the great patriarchy.

You are way too far out to lunch for me to bother with when you blame the law of the land on women while knowing that men have run our countries since day 1. Your focus is your wallet and not morals but thanks for your input.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

You are way too far out to lunch for me to bother with when you blame the law of the land on women while knowing that men have run our countries since day 1. Your focus is your wallet and not morals but thanks for your input.

Your focus is on someone else's wallet, but you claim it to be moral. That is like a lady of the night claiming to be the virgin Mary. Sadly that is what feminism has come to. Your moral center is so off kilter, that you have no morals at all.

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

You are most welcome. I fully accept a woman as an equal. I just want the women to act like one and not go running to congress and pass laws to force men to act like a safety net for them. Equal means you take responsibility for your choices-not make men step up and cushion your fall.

Also grow up and stop blaming the great patriarchy or some other boogeyman for your problems. A man who stays at home is unemployed and a woman who does the same should be considered the same-she chose to stay at home. That is what choice is all about-choosing for yourself. if the consequence is that you gave up job security-so be it-you get free food, housing, shopping money, health insurance etc. Even Steven.

I tried to be polite and just end it but nthat is not your way I see.

Ya ya. Forcing men to pay for their children instead of the woman is bad. Now fuck of with your stupidity.

Regards
DL

So per you, asking a woman to be equal and carry equal responsibility for kids is now a terribble crime. Women can only eat, love and pray. Typical feminist ideology and your response speaks volumes about you.

people are not falling for that tired old argument anymore-even increasingly women are moving away from it. because plenty of women now make more than men and are now caught in that trap and realize how unfair it is. Other women have sons and realize that the system encourages gold diggers, instead of hard working equal contributins.

Judging by your irrational responses, it looks like it hits close to home. What is it about asking women to stand on their own feet and accept the responsibilities of equality that sets them off in a frenzy?

Nobody is asking you to step backwards-well ok the repubs are-but the majority just want you to step up to the plate-as an equal. You asked for it.

What about child custody? In the US, child custody is overwhelmingly set up so men are second class parents. Unless there is overwhelming evidence that the mother is completely incompetent, the mother will get the children. This is legal prejudice against gender, enforced by government. So called human rights groups just aren't interested, because many (NOT all) feminist groups are more interested in bashing men and twisting society to privilege females.

"All heterosexual sex is rape."
"Objectivity is male subjectivity"
etc.

Also, there is little punishment when visitation rights/joint custody rights are violated. Most women who completely and unlawfully deny visitation (while demanding child support) in violation of a court order suffer no punishment, other than a scary-sounding letter and even more rarely, a verbal admonishment from a Judge. If a woman is very, very unlucky, she might get a trifling fine for depriving a man of his human right to be a father to his children. If she's realy, really, really unlucky, and the guy is rich and incredibly connected, she might lose primary custody after years and years of denying court-mandated custody or visitation rights.

As for privilege, there are a whole bunch of ditches in and around Gettysburg. On the French-German Frontier. In and around Stalingrad. Those ditches are filled with young white men.

More men are victims of violence than women.

There is some evidence that sex crimes against males, particularly young males, may be higher than that against women. There is also some evidence that predatory pedophiles prefer boys over girls to a large degree. For example, most of Clergy's victims were disproportionally male, not female, children.

Rape against Women Jokes are never permitted. Men getting raped in prison - often for non-violent drug offenses - are the basis for countless jokes.

There is also a double standard when it comes to threats. If a guy is told "Fuck you up the ass" by some other dude, no big deal. Said to a woman, and it's a serious threat.

•Approximately 84% of custodial parents are mothers, and
•16% of custodial parents are fathers

Ya. I will feel real sory for men who complain about laws that were implimented by men.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

•Approximately 84% of custodial parents are mothers, and
•16% of custodial parents are fathers

That's like saying 84% of slave owners in the pre 1865 South were whites. The law actively champions female over male parents. It doesn't matter who wrote the law, it's still unjust.

Greatest I am says

Ya. I will feel real sory for men who complain about laws that were implimented by men.

So, oppression is okay as long as men do it?

thunderlips11 says

As for privilege, there are a whole bunch of ditches in and around Gettysburg.

Even now, draft registration is required for young men only. Women and older men can vote to conscript young men off to die in war, while exempting themselves. Almost nobody seems to question the fairness of that. I admit though, the numbers, the majorities, are these: most of the people who vote for war are men, and most of the gung ho fighters are young men. So, if you believe conforming to stereotypes should be mandatory, as most people seem to believe, then the current requirements make perfect sense.

thunderlips11 says

Greatest I am says

•Approximately 84% of custodial parents are mothers, and

•16% of custodial parents are fathers

That's like saying 84% of slave owners in the pre 1865 South were whites. The law actively champions female over male parents. It doesn't matter who wrote the law, it's still unjust.

Greatest I am says

Ya. I will feel real sory for men who complain about laws that were implimented by men.

So, oppression is okay as long as men do it?

Homo Economicus. A Legendary Creature, like Bigfoot, claimed to exist by Pseudoscientists.

Poor men.

So oppressed since women got to vote after 2,000 years of men oppressing them.

Pay back is a bitch so here is some soup. Cry in it.
You have been crying since you tried to blame Eve for your own actions and have never stopped.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Pay back is a bitch so here is some soup. Cry in it.

Pay back isn't equality. It's revenge. Taking out revenge on individuals for the injustices of society, most of which have their origins long before anybody's great-great-great-grandparents were born, in general is neither useful nor just.

Greatest I am says

You have been crying since you tried to blame Eve for your own actions and have never stopped.

I see the Garden of Eden as a myth explaining Puberty and Reproduction. When you're young, Parents take care of everything, you live in a happy place provided with food and toys and fun. Then you gain knowledge of sexuality, and realize you have to sow the earth and hunt game to provide for your own children and life becomes harder. You are "Cast Out" of the Garden (Parent's house) to make your own way.

Your view may differ.

Greatest I am says

•Approximately 84% of custodial parents are mothers, and
•16% of custodial parents are fathers

Ya. I will feel real sory for men who complain about laws that were implimented by men.

Regards
DL

That shows anti-male bias in the family court system and that is what men have been trying to change. You use proof of anti-male laws to support your position That is rich. Nope these women friendly laws were passed by feminists and their allies using language exactly like yours that painted men as monsters. The good men fell for your emotional, crying routine and implemented this.

Now people are waking up and it is changing.

As for payback, that is the most strange logic I have ever heard. What someone else did eons ago is not my fault. Under current laws in the uS, men are subjugated, stripped of all their rights, property and future earnings. There is no jury-of course feminists know no jury in their right mind will give a woman 50k a month in child support-no questions asked and tax free too. The govt intevenes -mostly on behalf of women-for every family in America. We are not a free nation-but one ruled by an iron fist by the great matriarchy. There are so many support groups and tax payer funded benefits for single mothers-but where are they for single fathers. Planned parenthood-which I supoort-is a godsend for low and moderate income women. But what about men? Many men get testicular cancer or other such ailments-where is the govt funded groups for men. I am surprised that feminists have the audacity to whine in this modern western world-where they get the majority of benefits. I think what has happened in our culture is the disappearance of "shame" and personal responsibility. Which is very sad. It always someoneelse's fault-even if that someone else existed centuries ago for the feminists and the bankers are just as shameless.

thunderlips11 says

Your view may differ.

No. I too see it in that more traditional Jewish way. A rite of passage.

As to women, if they were given full equality by law then perhaps the courts would see things a bit differently. Each case is different and I am not going to waste my time trying to second guess every case.

If you do not like the laws that your male prominent system has created then blame the male there that are doing what they think is fair and lawful. Not women for working within the law.

Regards
DL

lostand confused says

where they get the majority of benefits.

84 % of children with single parents are with their mothers.

I recognize that the 16 % of those with men and the men themselves should not be penalized for doing the right thing but, by the numbers, the courts are right in insuring that women and especially the children with them are well served and I know some cases where women are hit just as hard to support their ex's and children as men are to support theirs.

Count the number of deadbeat dad as compared to deadbeat mothers and then co9me back and tell me who I should support.

Again, FMPOV full equality is the best but if we cannot have the best then my money and support, by the numbers of children, must go to women.

Men I think must bite the bullet and view what we have now as Affirmative Action to right many years of abuse of the system mostly by men.

I have four male children, now grown, of my own and I warned then to keep their pekers in their pockets because one way or another each child they have will cost them plenty. Do the same for yours.

What bugs me more is seeing fathers on welfare having more children with welfare mothers and my having to support them.
I know I sound harsh and feminist but guys, those welfare bastards having kids with a bunch of different whores should be our targets. Not regular unwed mothers.

I feel for the guys that have to fork over 3/4 of their incomes but I think that overall, them paying for their freedom as compared to the women who have the responsibility of child rearing should be worth it to them because if it was the other way around from what I have seen personally, the children are better served this way. Most men I know would make dreadful parents without women and I include myself in that number.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

84 % of children with single parents are with their mothers.
I recognize that the 16 % of those with men and the men themselves should not be penalized for doing the right thing but, by the numbers, the courts are right in insuring that women and especially the children with them are well served and I know some cases where women are hit just as hard to support their ex's and children as men are to support theirs.
Count the number of deadbeat dad as compared to deadbeat mothers and then co9me back and tell me who I should support

I have already answered this point, but you keep going on like a broken record. 84% of women get custody -because of anti male bias. Men are fighting this legal discrimination and fighting for custody. As I already mentioned -of course there are more deadbeat dads in absolute numbers-because most men do not get custody. You are comparing 16% of the population against 84%-that you don 't see the problem in this and your childish insults when confronted with the facts-speaks volumes about your views.

If the ratio were the opposite, women would be screaming and rushing to congress and pass mandates, but since it is in their favor-they fight tooth and nail to keep this biased system in place.

Men will not bite the bullet and accept being slaves to women-just because Grandpa did something to Grandma-that is just dumb.

Two wrongs do not a right make. But of course to the feminists they don't care-as long as they can have it all. it ain't gonna work for long-ultimately men will rebel. I myself am disgusted with the dems and if the repubs just moderated a little bit and became sane again-I and plenty of dem men I know will jump. Why stay with a stupid party that consistently votes against your self interest.

Well, you claim you have four sons. Just imagine they all end up with a woman with your views who thinks it is ok to run over them, keep them from their kids and take their money, just because they are men and as women they are owed. I am sure you will be cheering the women on and telling your sons that they have to pay for the sins of their forefathers???? Cue-more insults.

One of my sons is in that exact position.
He is less of a crybaby than you are.
He is a true man.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

One of my sons is in that exact position.
He is less of a crybaby than you are.
He is a true man.

Regards
DL

Bingo-as I said, cue the personal insults. Isn't that funny-you accept that one of your sons is with a woman just like you-in other words, you accept you are off. But you want him and any man to put up with you, fork over their money and smile while they are doing it.

You have trained him to be a useless man, with no fight and no fire. No wonder, any time he showed fire, you must have insulted him, called him a crybaby and asked him to be a real man, blah, blah , blah.

That is not a true man, but what most would call a sissy .

Are you thinking I am a woman?

I fathered my children. Only the sperm came out of me. Not them.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Are you thinking I am a woman?

I fathered my children. Only the sperm came out of me. Not them.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Poor men.
So oppressed since women got to vote after 2,000 years of men oppressing them.
Pay back is a bitch so here is some soup. Cry in it.
You have been crying since you tried to blame Eve for your own actions and have never stopped.
Regards
DL

This is the strangest thing I have ever read on the interwebz.

You do not get around much.

Yet you show nothing to refute.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

You do not get around much.

Yet you show nothing to refute.

Regards
DL

LOL-This is the strangest and funniest thread I have ever read.

Thanks for the personal picture of yourself. Take it off baby. :>

http://www.youtube.com/embed/7miRCLeFSJo

Regards
DL