patrick.net

AverageBear says

I love it when liberals equate fiscal responsibility with 'cult'. I mentioned the following in a thread here on Patrick.net over the summer, and i don't think many liberals had much to say (I'll have to go over my comments to confirm this)... But basically, we all agree that as one of "heads" of the househould, that when we pay our bills on time, live within our means, have no debt (or no crushing debt) we are considered smart.

The problem with that sort of assumption is that for some reason a lot of Republicans automatically assume that their party somehow is the party that's all about fiscal responsibility when in fact their party spends like drunken sailors and often on pointless programs and efforts. Their party is no angel when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Yet they continually complain whenever a Democratic Presidents is in power and say nothing when a Republican gets elected and spends like mad.

thomaswong.1986 says

Anyway, its common sense to deport since illegals are legal citizens of a foreign govt.

Why GOP so harsh in jabber about seriousness, and PURITY of approach, but unwilling to attack it that way?

Anytime GOP'er talks about drugs, they like the idea of taking down kingpins. Maximum bang for buck, locking up scumbags, etc. etc. Would you let dealers skate free and only with users "throw away the key"? No.

Talk about HUGE FINES & JAIL TIME for employers of illegals and suddenly GOP'ers want to change subject. It's not hard, walk into any chicken-processing plant in Georgia or Alabama and ask why nearly all the employees speak only Spanish and have fake papers and who hired them. Arrest that person, because there's no frickin' way they were TOTALLY FOOLED several hundred times. Repeat that in public examples and your "problem" will vanish in a few years.

They should "self-deport" that's the most lily-livered hypocrite line I've heard recently from RMoney.

AverageBear says

I love it when liberals equate fiscal responsibility with 'cult'.

Norquist runs a BS CULT, because "fiscal responsibility" would mean a balanced budget and that returning taxes to Reagan-levels ALONG WITH budget cuts would be acceptable to get there. His hardline "cut taxes always" stance is lunacy of the sort like "let's balance our household budget by cutting our income, THAT'LL solve things". Norquist cult detached from reality wants to implement only the easy popular part and we'll get around to the real meat after we're all dead right? Likes to cut taxes & blab about deficits, doesn't want to make hard choices and do anything about it. Name me a major cut in a large budget category the GOP has carried out in the last couple decades. GOP should "die by it's sword" and actually try to implement it's alleged hardline position by cutting SS & Medicare & defense, then they'll get my respect back and I'll remove the cult label.

Vicente says

Anytime GOP'er talks about drugs, they like the idea of taking down kingpins. Maximum bang for buck, locking up scumbags, etc. etc. Would you let dealers skate free and only with users "throw away the key"? No.

Drugs... you could start by napalming the Heroin fields in Afghanistan and the Coca fields in Columbia and Bolivia... after all who would complain ?

I would call that maximum bang for the buck...

Barlowe says

Nice, and now the Dems got caught red-handed admitting to forging utility bills to get around Virginia's Voter ID law:

Where's the mug shot, arrest info, and police report......if that really happened?

Barlowe says

Hmm...seems to be that the onus on disproving such things rests with those who make the accusations.
So, in that light: please prove that the Dem Field Operations guy caught red-handed isn't really a Dem Field Operations guy and prove that he was lying.
Good luck with that.

You posted the video and are making the claim that it is real, true and valid. So, not only do I not have to prove anythng, but what was supposedly done on the video is a felony, and yet...........no arrest, police report or even a major media story about the incident since the election is less than 2 weeks away. Huh, none of those things are available or provided, just some hack putting a video on youtube.

Or are you trying to claim that if the video is actually real, what was alledged is NOT illegal?

AverageBear says

it's clear Thomas is clearly showing you TONS of evidence of voter fraud. Your attempt to label voter fraud as "criminial in a misdeameor kind of way" is hilarious.

Okay, so what I hear is that you also don't want to understand what the registration fraud (not voter fraud) was, that some acorn people were guilty of.

This means that you didn't read my comment any further, so I will do the same with you. Not reading any further. Good luck with your closed minded emotion filled point of view.

Poor saps want to justify introducing voter ID rules right before an election when the expected result is obvioius to all.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9BovRXWemws

And then they want to remind us of the heinous crime of registration fraud perpetrated by acorn back in 2008 (good thing ACORN was stopped !!!).

And they want to tell us that type of voter fraud, the kind where individuals actually go in and represent a fraudulent voter on election day is real and significant.

What, all of this because you know you are a member of the the party that has ablolutely no moral compass. The party that could care less about real American vaues ? When you kill voting and fair elections, it's over.

And about voting machines. I don't know who is at fault or which side benefits, but how is it that there is even any question about technology used in tabulating vote counts ??

Really !!??

2012, and we are insecure about the integrity of our elections more than ever because we can't figure out a 100% safe way to count votes ?

WTF ?

MAybe part of the plan, in a post 1984 world is that if you are going to rig elections you have to hire dozens of dimbulbs to hit the various blogs and forums with claims that

"Oohhh it's the dems that want to cheat, they are the ones that rig elections. Acorn 2008. Chicago 1960,....etc...."

Barlowe says

After the O'Keefe video exposing the Dems s

Anything O'Keefe says is as best a half truth and grossly distorted. He made is own bed on that one...

And we pride ourselves on being the model for the world and what, we supposedly set the standard for how democratic elections should be done ?

I looked it up.

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/12/james_okeefe_violates_election_law_to_prove_liberals_violate_election_law/

O’Keefe has pretty clearly violated the law and TPM reports that a federal prosecutor is reviewing his video. But at least he finally proved that voter fraud is a very real threat, and one that could lead to upward of a couple of phony ballots being cast in a statewide primary election, depending on how many registered voters died quite recently. As we all know, once you prove that something is hypothetically possible, it is a factual certainty that ACORN has done it.

And that new voter ID laws right before a PResidential election that is sure to skew the election by at least 10s of thousands of votes, is justified.

Barlowe, you are only proving one thing...and it's about your intelligence.

Okay, so it was a later pathetic attempt by Okeefe you were referring to . I don't need to watch the video to know how stupid it is. Here is a summary.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-okeefe-patrick-moran-voter-fraud-20121024,0,1553017.story

The younger Moran doesn't tell the man that what he's planning is illegal, immoral or wrong. Instead, he tells him it would be "tough" and that he'd be better off spending his time and energy getting those 100 voters to the polls. He also encourages him to help Obama's get-out-the-vote efforts in Northern Virginia, which his father represents.

But as the man persists, Moran gets drawn in and tells him that he'd need to forge utility bills or bank statements in the names of the would-be voters. He also tells him to call them to make sure they haven't voted already and weren't planning to.

I get it, that one idiot he found, was an idiot. But it looks like even after he gets sucked in, the underlying message is that it wouldn't be worth it.

"Moran gets drawn in and tells him that he'd need to forge utility bills or bank statements in the names of the would-be voters. He also tells him to call them to make sure they haven't voted already and weren't planning to."

later in that article...

In short, the video makes the case that, when measured in terms of risk versus reward, in-person voter fraud makes no sense. But then, if people like the younger Moran are stupid enough to entertain the idea of committing voter fraud at the prompting of someone they meet in a cafe, then maybe they'd miss that point too.

Lets compare shall we? Disenfranchisement at the hands of Republicans vs Voter Fraud (all reported cases of fraud, whether they were found to be valid or not, and assuming 100% of the fraud is by Democrats) Note that I took the low estimate of disenfranchisement and the high estimate of fraud...

AverageBear says

I love it when liberals equate fiscal responsibility with 'cult'.

Yeah, wasn't Clinton the one who umm... actually balanced the budget and ran a surplus for a bit?

Please don't think I am berating your tea toting comrades, but I feel like those beating the drum of austerity simply don't get how economies work, particularly the US one. The US is, and has nearly always been, a demand based economy. Every attempt at supply side economics has been a spectacular flop with the CBO recently putting the final nail in that coffin.

The best indicator of what the economy will do (this goes for the housing market too IMHO) is consumer sentiment. So when the economy tanks, your number one priority should be to get as many people as you can back in a position to buy more stuff.

Now given that the US budget measures discretionary spending (the stuff presidents actually can control) in fractions of a percent, you simply can't get there through austerity. You just can't cut enough stuff, because too much of the budget has become 'untouchable' (ie defense). Even the evil muslim Obama dares not touch defense spending and it has increased modestly each year.

So your only alternative is to improve wages and lower unemployment, both of those require the govt to kick in something in the way of spending or stimulus.

And for what its worth, this liberals house is as fiscally responsible as it gets. We buy everything (including our rental properties) in cash.

Vicente says

AverageBear,

Jumping in... where has this Thomas PROVEN voter fraud at the retail level to be a huge problem requiring measures?

I have relatives in North Carolina where just about every election there's some vague allegations of fraud. Which never pan out. It must be painful to be GOP in that situation. Sad really, I'd think they'd want mandatory IQ testing of GOP politicians by now or lie detectors on a regular basis to explain why their people are such miserable failures at catching the rampant long-term voter-fraud machine they think exists.

But it's enough to MISDIRECT PEOPLE and make them run in circles doing ineffective things isn't it. Best to keep the peasants busy. That explains the TSA and lots of other GOP handiwork.

--------------------------------
Well Vicente,

it didn't take long for me to find you some more proof of voter fraud. The link below confims voter fraud in my own back yard, so to speak. Keep in mind that the link doesn't point to Fox News; it points to the local Boston Fox affiliate, which is far from right-leaning. I didn't even have to look for voter fraud; it found me. But God forbid the Boston (-Democrat) Globe picked up the story, which it spiked instead. The silence is deafening...Why are liberals afraid to prove identity when it comes to voting? The link below give you the answer...

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/20001618/2012/11/05/non-citizens-registered-to-vote-in-lawrence-but-officials-shrug

The GOP won't disintegrate, they'll simply say, like every time they lose an election, that they should have ran a "Real Conservative" for President.

Specifically, Romney was a Health Care Reformist, thus a RINO, and a Heretic Mormon to boot. They'll probably say that Ryan should have been the candidate.

thunderlips11 says

The GOP won't disintegrate, they'll simply say, like every time they lose an election, that they should have ran a "Real Conservative" for President.

Specifically, Romney was a Health Care Reformist, thus a RINO, and a Heretic Mormon to boot. They'll probably say that Ryan should have been the candidate.

I'm sure you are right, but why are they so quite now? If they think the hard-right message is the winner, why aren't they pushing Romney to deliver it? If that's what they REALLY believed the would be RIGHT NOW demanding that he denounce Obama as a Marxist Muslim, no? Why aren't they demanding that he loudly declare global warming a fraud? Why did they stay quiet, or even cheer, when Romney madly dashed to the center at the first debate?

Here's David frum on the same page as me:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/02/a-pre-election-challenge-for-real-conservatives.html

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

The only way the GOP can win is if Ryan leads the ticket and replaces the platform with a paperback copy of The Fountainhead and eats a black baby on ESPN2.

I'm encouraged to see that there is at least one true believer with the courage of his convictions :-)