patrick.net

The more I think about this, the more I wonder where the fee came from and where it's going.

Big computer makers including Apple have tended to offer their products at deeply discounted prices for educational use, to maximize their market share in the next generation of customers and employees. So, Apple is getting some of the $, but they're providing in exchange a product that is worth at least as much as what they're getting. (I still think it would be better to have the kids build an Android or Linux device, but even that would involve some expense for parts.)

I suspect the markup is in the FIRE sector, specifically the Finance and Insurance side. A "middleman" is probably financing the cost for the school, and making a commission at both ends. I would want to follow the money, does the middleman have ties to school board members, e.g. "donating" to school board elections, etc. Consider how little the insurance actually costs: If a customer buys an iPad on a credit card, the card issuer often includes purchase insurance at no extra cost; they pay for that out of the fraction of a % that they get on the processing fee. How much would a rational person pay to insure a device that has no moving parts, is easily replaceable, and is going to be obsolete within two years anyway? That's where the hidden markup probably occurs, and in practice it is very likely shared out to decision-makers somehow.

I don't really want to alienate the school by suing them, but I'm not sure how else to get them to obey the law. Sheesh, you'd think the law would be enforceable somehow without lawsuits.

The more immediate thing is that my daughter is upset that everyone sees she's the only one who can't take it home. Anything I can do today?

The superintendent is not answering my emails.

Anything I can do today?

Lend her your iPad, then she can connect the special keyboard to it during the day and take only the iPad home. Even if she's only allowed to use the school's iPad during the day, there is probably some way to transfer the data back and forth.

Also, if the school refuses to provide information about their mandatory insurance and financing deal, a FOIA request might result in a lot of information without a lawsuit. Then maybe a story in the local paper. It's an election year, though I don't know if it's a school board election year. You could run for school board on issues like this. Michael Moore got his start in politics by running for school board.

OK, I will see if she can just use our iPad.

curious2 says

I would want to follow the money, does the middleman have ties to school board members, e.g. "donating" to school board elections, etc.

Yes, you have to wonder if someone was paid to select the iPad.

And I bet you're right, the insurance policy of $42 for a year of iPad use seems unreasonably high. It's probably almost all profit going into someone's pocket.

And I bet you're right, the insurance policy of $42 for a year of iPad use seems unreasonably high. It's probably almost all profit going into someone's pocket.

It is. I'm aware of these companies. I work in the Ed Tech field. These companies bulk order mass quantities of hardware paying a fraction of the retail cost per device, loan them at minimal costs to schools to "help them modernize", then tell the school they're responsible for any damage but they can just pay X/year for coverage - and pass the costs to parents.

If 50% of the parents go along with it, they make money.

Another interesting scam is Bonds for Charter Schools. They charge 6-9% interest when Muni Bonds in the same district are paying like 3%. Naturally there is a pant load of fees, which go straight into the Financier's pockets as well. Also, they write the bond so that if the Charter School Fails, the city/county/school district is responsible for the repayment.

Since these financiers are often dealing with non-financial professionals on the school board, it's an easy sell.

curious2 says

I still think it would be better to have the kids build an Android or Linux device

Better yet, we should train the kids to solder small joints. It will prepare them for the jobs the Chinese don't want once their economy takes off. And their perfect for these jobs with their little fingers. This would be the best thing our schools could do to prepare them for the real new economy.

iPads at school sounds good. Education should not be exclusive to it. Programs should be accross other platforms and have a choice on the iPad for take home use. I like the thinking behind it.

The superintendent is not answering my emails.

Show up at her office or at a public meeting?

P.S. @Patrick, the required education apps may be available for download from iTunes:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/ios-education/id6017?mt=8

Just clicking at random, all the ones I saw were free.

Dan8267 says

we should train the kids to solder small joints. It will prepare them for the jobs the Chinese don't want once their economy takes off.

Soldering will be done by robots, but teaching robot repair would be a good idea. Of course, there are already much more lucrative opportunities in selling robot insurance:

SNL Old Glory Robot Insurance

Also scrubbing the floors of Mitt Romney's many houses. A Roomba might do a better job, but Mitt'll hire your kids because he likes being able to fire people. Nothing gets Combat Hairstylist Romney off like the expression of terror in a crying child's face.

New Renter says

The superintendent is not answering my emails.

Show up at her office or at a public meeting?

Good idea. The superintendant for Menlo Park schools is a man though. Maurice Ghysels: mghysels@mpcsd.org

I'll find his office and try to visit right now.

I actually did get to talk to the superintendant, and it was a friendly enough conversation.

He said that the iPads were expensive and it would be a burden on the school to be responsible for even accidental damage to them. I replied that he nonetheless may not legally push that cost onto parents.

He said he'd have the school district's lawyer look into it, and I went to my daughter's school and took personal responsibility for the iPad for one week while the lawyer looks into it.

In the meantime, the governor may sign AB 1575, which would give me a formal channel to dispute illegal charges for public schools.

Also, the ACLU said they might call me back about my request to be added to their case.

There are a lot of educational apps for the iPad. My three year old loves to learn and now knows all his abc's, numbers, colors, and shapes. Next comes reading. He might have that down by four at this rate. My kids love the iPad, and I've sort of written it off as a kid toy. I got a Griffin case for it so it's damn near indestructible, and trained them to plug it in when not using it. Definitely it's a win in the toy department, with potential to provide lots of learning for kids ready for that.

i know that you, and probably most of the parents in that area can readily afford the fee and that the cost is NOT the point.

but...it should be. what if there was some unfortunate student in that school that was in the same situation as your daughter? marginalized, and falling grades due to no access to the required equipment? isn't that a discriminatory issue?

if they want the devices and all of the benefits of using them, the school board should have budgeted for the insurance themselves.

as for the comment someone made about 'paying for other people's kids', i believe there's enough justification for it under public health and public safety concerns. what is the alternative? allow them to run wild, become beggers and never be able to find any employment except as ditch-diggers? some will undoubtedly do this anyway due to natural inclination, but the smarter, more enterprising ones will simply find illegal means to obtain the same 'stuff'. generally, by stealing yours.

This is petty. Be a father first, activist last. What's the point, the school is trying to do something good by issuing ipad as an education tool, which obviouly is not a tool that is enjoyed by 95% of other public schools.

Since I was pretty sure that's illegal, I complained

sarcasmOn Citizen, how dare you question Public Servants, your Betters? sarcasmOff

suspiria_2 says

if they want the devices and all of the benefits of using them, the school board should have budgeted for the insurance themselves.

Yes, I agree. Remember, these are not optional devices.

SFace says

This is petty. Be a father first, activist last.

I did my fatherly duty and took responsibility for damage for it for now, but it's not at all petty. It's huge. Illegal fees a big problem in California and are violating the basic idea of universal free K-12 education.

Either a school is private or it's public. If it's public, it should really be public.

I did my fatherly duty and took responsibility for damage for it for now, but it's not at all petty. It's huge. Illegal fees a big problem in California and are violating the basic idea of universal free K-12 education.

In your world, you think about illegal fees and principles. As a parent, I think about the classroom and what is the best classroom for my child.

suspiria_2 says

as for the comment someone made about 'paying for other people's kids', i believe there's enough justification for it under public health and public safety concerns.

I agree, in fact it is much better to pay for education than health insurance. Education is the best predictor of longevity (health insurance pales in comparison) and confers many other benefits including a slightly better chance that the next generation will be able to pay off the massive debts that this generation is piling onto them. The primary beneficiaries of most medical spending are the revenue recipients, but everyone benefits from free public education. Alas California is cutting education spending to increase medical spending, and prisons and high speed trains to nowhere. I wish we could cut those other things and provide truly free public education.

I think the fact that the school has the kids using iPads is great. It's definitely the future.

But they should probably just have an honor system, and the tax payer should eat the losses of all the students who lose, break or steal the iPads.

And I bet you're right, the insurance policy of $42 for a year of iPad use seems unreasonably high. It's probably almost all profit going into someone's pocket.

Yeah, $42 ! That implies that nearly one in 10 iPads per year will be broken, lost or stolen by a student. What a rip off.

Either a school is private or it's public. If it's public, it should really be public.

I went to a public high school, and we bought our books at the beginning of each year and sold them back at the end of the year, except for some of the soft cover books that we had to buy to keep.

All I know is that if I were in your shoes, I would not be bothered by this at all. It's like a rental fee, and seems reasonable to me. But it is subjective.
This opinion has nothing to do with my being a teacher.

Is it a charter school ?

Dreadful idea.

SFace says

This is petty. Be a father first, activist last. What's the point, the school is trying to do something good by issuing ipad as an education tool, which obviouly is not a tool that is enjoyed by 95% of other public schools.

I agree.

lets ban all ipads and other costly computer learning tools from schools so we can argue about constitutionAL law with children.

dumb

marcus says

This opinion has nothing to do with my being a teacher.

It is nearly impossible for a human to separate entirely his economic self-interest from his opinions. But, I can't believe Marcus is actually a teacher, so maybe his opinion has nothing to do with his pretending to be one.

And don't worry, Marcus won't be offended by this comment, he has me on ignore (except when he opens a separate browser so he can pretend to ignore me while also replying to my comments, "I'm ignoring you," I wonder if he sticks his tongue out at his computer at the same time).

iPad is not necessary in school.

marcus says

Is it a charter school ?

No, not charter, just vanilla public school.

It's not the money. I've already done way too much work protesting this to make the money relevant. It's the idea that schools can break the law and no one will challenge them on it. And this law is not just any law. The availability of free public education is essential to giving everyone a chance to succeed on their own merits. It's written into the state constitution.

Since its adoption in 1879, the California Constitution has required that the state provide a system of free public schools. In 1984, the California Supreme Court ruled unequivocally in Hartzell v. Connell that “[i]n guaranteeing ‘free’ public schools, article IX section 5 fixes the precise extent of the financial burden which may be imposed on the right to an education — none.”

SFace says

In your world, you think about illegal fees and principles. As a parent, I think about the classroom and what is the best classroom for my child.

And apparently you don't think about what's best for anyone else's children at all. Maybe $42 is not much to me, but there are kids around here who really cannot afford it. And all over the state as well.

Do they deserve a free education or not? And don't give me any crap about making them beg for humiliating vouchers and exemptions.

The availability of free public education is essential to giving everyone a chance to succeed on their own merits. It's written into the state constitution.

Yes, but what if a school decides to go way above and beyond what they must provide, to offer a little something extra, based on the assumption that parents will gladly either put up a security deposit (I have heard of a charter school that does that with iPads), or pay a small insurance charge for having that for their child.

I would never be a school administrator. ButI if I were, I could see myself making such a decision, and thinking it was good, and estimating that parent would mostly like it.

Maybe they got a grant for the iPads, but not enough to pay for yearly maintenance and replacement.

As a taxpayer, I am paying for "free" public education, which is a public good that I believe in. I expect what I'm paying for to be provided as per the social contract, i.e. the Constitution and laws of the state. For "extras" above the budget, there are bake sales and tax subsidies (which we all pay for) for teachers who provide whatever extras they can't get the school to budget for.

I also believe in free public libraries, and I would object to anyone putting a paywall at the front door.

I also believe in providing vaccines and true emergency medical care as a public service, and I only wish more people would demand that as well instead of the lobby-driven system we have now. Education is a better predictor of longevity than medical insurance, which means it is literally a matter of life and death, and worth fighting for.

One day that type of technology won't be something extra, but at present California wildy underfunds it schools. Class sizes are high and teachers at many schools have furlough days every year, because the schools can't afford to pay them their 2007 contract salary.

Times are tough.

marcus says

what if a school decides to go way above and beyond what they must provide, to offer a little something extra

It wasn't offered. It was demanded.

marcus said:
I went to a public high school, and we bought our books at the beginning of each year and sold them back at the end of the year, except for some of the soft cover books that we had to buy to keep.
Where was this?

SFace, I appreciate your contributions and normally let cultural differences slide. But on this one, let me say, welcome to the US of A. We educate the peasants here.

I'll bet Patrick, if you were an illegal alien, the State would buy your kid an iPad of her own.

We wouldn't have any of these problems if parents actually had to pay the full cost of educating their kids instead of trying to stick it to the taxpayers.

marcus says

Class sizes are high

Exactly how high? When I went to elementary and high school, about 33-35 kids per class was the norm.

Along the same lines, I'd like to see most toll booths renamed "tax booths" since in most cases, the road or bridge you are crossing was paid off decades ago.

marcus says

But they should probably just have an honor system, and the tax payer should eat the losses of all the students who lose, break or steal the iPads.

How many of these lost Ipads will end up on eBay?

jvolstad says

if you were an illegal alien, the State would buy your kid an iPad

Around here it's different. If you were an illegal alien, government would pay for comprehensive "free" medical to stop you buying from cheaper Mexican pharmacies, but if you complained about public school administrators demanding payment for "free" education you'd get deported. It's about maximizing revenue at every opportunity.

marcus says

Yeah, $42 ! That implies that nearly one in 10 iPads per year will be broken, lost or stolen by a student. What a rip off.

Perhaps one in 10 is broken, lost, or stolen??? From what I understand, kids break stuff about as often as the proverbial bull in the china shop. Did anyoen think to ask for these statistics from the school?

Is it that hard for the schools to have"Property of xxx" engraved on the case and on a small portion of the screen such that if stolen the pad is less likely to end up on ebay? As for breakage aren't there enclosures that make tablets more or less kidproof?