patrick.net

tearing up religious books, jeez so old school. no one cares! if you do, you shouldn't.

Just to know that there are reasonable people who don't believe in Islam and to be able to converse with them anonymously is a huge step forward.

For some, perhaps, but the experience of Romney's cult shows the opposite: countless members admit they had real doubts about their doctrine until the "missionary" experience confirmed them in their beliefs. Their "mission" isn't about teaching people to dig wells for clean water, it's only about recruiting for the cult, so the people they talk with are by definition people who don't already share their beliefs. Of course, those aren't anonymous conversations; the recruiters are paired so that everything each says can be reported back by the other. Yet, even on this forum, people have stated (and I have experienced) how exchanges with people who disagree can push people away and cause them to retreat into their previous belief. Romney's cult calls itself a Christian denomination, but its growth rate exceeds all of the 10 largest Christian denominations.

Dan8267 says

lostand confused says

Looks like Islamists are at it again. I wonder what will it take to bring them into the modern world-in terms of mindset??

The same thing it took to bring the Christian world into the modern world: a weakening of religious beliefs, trust in clergy, and faith in any god.

It took criticism and force to bring the Christian world into the modern world.
Now the modern world refuses to use criticism and force to bring Islam into the modern world.
I feel it it is us who are being dragged into their medieval world.

I think the Internet helps a lot too.

Just to know that there are reasonable people who don't believe in Islam and to be able to converse with them anonymously is a huge step forward.

Of course there is still a big language barrier, and the fact that lots of fundamentalists probably don't have Internet access.

The internet is a form of communication that is almost impossible to stop. A hundred years from now people will look back and credit the internet to bringing Islam to it's knees.
Maybe some of the criticism we indulge in right here could end up in the history books.

I think that SOPA and PIPA had less to do with copyright than with providing a "legitimate" means for censoring the internet.

They still might succeed at it.

Reader says

Extremism happens in all places and with all religions. I am Catholic.

I don't have any beef with rank-and-file Catholics. Just the shenanigans that go on "at the top."

That Laundry shit was interesting.

Funny how no matter how bad these kinds of facilities are (BOTH secular and religious), and their general failure in rahabbing even a fraction of their inmates, we keep thinking they work.

Like Sheriff's Boot Camps for Juvis, etc.

Raw says

It took criticism and force to bring the Christian world into the modern world.
Now the modern world refuses to use criticism and force to bring Islam into the modern world.

Look no further than the arguments that Marcus and I have had on this site. There's a reason I've fought against the position that we should accept the evils of religion by pretending they don't exist and aren't a fundamental property of religion itself. There's a purpose to atheists and rationalists being vocal. As I've quoted MLK many times, "There comes a time when silence is betrayal.".

Still, I think the Islamic world can be modernized without force. The Internet is a powerful tool for spreading information. If the Middle East had unrestricted Internet access -- at least unrestricted in some places -- then the culture will change.

freak80 says

I don't have any beef with rank-and-file Catholics. Just the shenanigans that go on "at the top."

Some of those rank-and-file Catholics don't believe people should have access to birth control or fertility treatment and think that homosexuality is a sin.