patrick.net

Greatest I am says

babies in the womb have not done anything good or evil.

During pregnancy, moms get kicked from inside the womb. What kind of person would kick a pregnant woman?!? Babies in the womb do plenty of evil and they don't even confess or repent so they MUST BE PUNISHED FOR THEIR SINS!

A better question is, why does God hate amputees?

Original Sin is a theological construct, rather than a biblical assertion.
Paul presented the teachings about this in his letter to the Romans, starting in verse 12-19. It's a point:counterpoint passage, where he uses Adams sin to condemn, Christs sacrifice to redeem.
Paul's letters are poetic and meaningful, but they are his interpretation of Christianity. He also says in another passage (1st corinthians 7:24-40) that it would be better if people didn't marry and have children because that is distraction from God's work. He asserts this based on his presumption that "time is very short," which illustrates that the idea of apocalypse has been around since the first generation of Christians. Can you imagine that Paul thought the world would end in his lifetime? Amazing how wrong he was. Amazing how infallible his letters are assumed to be.
Of course, if people had followed this teaching universally, there would be obvious problems. Without people caring for the next generation, God would have nobody to work with! God of an empty world would be a rather droll position to own, so I do think Paul's understanding is far from perfect.

Unfortunately, the Council of Niceaea decreed that all of Paul's letters were holy writ and thus untouchable. So mainstream Christians can't make my sort of arguments and not be branded "heretic."

More's the pity.

I'll rely on Galileo for my final quote: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

Quigley says

I'll rely on Galileo for my final quote: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

Excellent quote, it's always worthwhile to remember Galileo both for his discoveries and the fact that the Vatican forced him to "admit" his discoveries were wrong and that the church doctrine of geocentrism was "true." They threatened to execute and excommunicate him, but because he confessed they placed him under house arrest. Ancient Greeks had done the same to Aristarchos apparently, for the same reason, so it isn't specific to any one religion. Romney's cult members are not allowed to think for themselves, because reason is a "lesser faculty" and they are required to submit perfect obedience. When religion wields power, it can become extremely dangerous, as many hapless refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq can attest. (After U.S. intervention, both countries have constitutions that make religion a basis of law, as do most of our "allies" in that part of the world, including Pakistan.) On the other hand, colonists from Muslim countries, who emigrate to spread the Koran, say there should be no separation between church and state and we must all submit to Islam. Some American Christians insist that America must be declared a "Christian country" (even though Presidents Washington, Jefferson, and Madison agreed it isn't), and want to use their (re)interpretations of Christianity as a basis of law here. So, after sorting out why God hates babies and amputees, the next question is, why does God so love politicians?

curious2 says

Greatest I am says

babies in the womb have not done anything good or evil.

During pregnancy, moms get kicked from inside the womb. What kind of person would kick a pregnant woman?!? Babies in the womb do plenty of evil and they don't even confess or repent so they MUST BE PUNISHED FOR THEIR SINS!

A better question is, why does God hate amputees?

Because he screwed up in creating them. Oops says God.

Regards
DL

Quigley says

"time is very short,"

I think that the whole end time idea was not well understood.
You are a bit off topic but I do not mind going there.

I am working on something you might like to critique for me.

Only I can judge God. I, is you, if you choose to be.

Using the term --- I am here means you. I do not mean me unless I am referring to myself and all I say applies to all of us. You are ( I ) to you as I am I to me. Only you then can judge the God construct that you see as you evaluate what you know of God.

Jesus said that at the end of days he would return. He meant in spirit only. Not a physical manifestation. He also said that the time of the end was at hand and that the temple of God was within each of us. The tern spirit represents, the spirit of the law, what is written in the hearts, ---- God in other words, ---- is defined as laws and rules and such as they are the only thing you can follow at all times, ---- and these are set by you and you are in effect ruling yourself in terms of following the God construct you have developed.

Jesus is telling you that you and your heart are the only things of importance in terms of leadership as it is the rules you have accepted as worthy of following. Jesus warned that at end times there would be a number of Jesus’ to choose from and morality is what you will have to choose from.

That is why I think it important to evaluate what Jesus said and determine if it is worthy and moral or not.

Jesus Christ. Madman or something worse.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/j4QXOgVfY9k&feature=player_embedded

Below, Bishop Spong speaks of basically redefining Christianity. Going from a church or religious thinking, to a more spiritual or heart felt thinking. I also urge Christianity to change because it is now too immoral to ignore with today’s mentality. It’s overall policies are immoral in my view. The God of war must die and Jesus declared the full and only God that is required and that the noble lie of politics should be revoked to let all know that the God you likely know was always a myth. This may be a good time for you to contemplate such a move as many Christians haves rejected the O.T. God and only focus on Jesus and loving policies.

Bishop Spong speaks well to this issue.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/6AfFcAmx-Ro&feature=relmfu

Apotheosis means just recognizing that you are on a journey of being your own God. Some few will have help from God on this through a real apotheosis but only the very few it seems. You cannot get away from that fact so you may as well forget about fantasy, miracles and magic. They were never real and you are the strongest force you will ever know. After all, who but you can make you want to do anything voluntarily? There is no other force that can do this and therefore you are God in the real sense of being master of yourself. If that does not compute with you then remember that A & E became as Gods, God’s own words, and yours is the same birth rite. Throw it away if you wish. You cannot reject the knowledge of good and evil so I cannot fathom why you would throw away the fact that you as well can become as Gods.

The moral of Jesus and his sacrifice is that we should accept being God, and ruling ourselves even against a government if needs be. Become archetypal Moses and face government and declare that it faces one as great as itself. That is what being a free man is all about.

The time of the end is when Jesus becomes your God on earth, ---- again this is you, --- who takes the place of the mythical heavenly God of war. Jesus/you, as the way, the man’s way of judging first, not some absentee God’s unknown standard. Your covenant with yourself is to be the new covenant. Man answering to man and himself. Not to some unknown God.

More to follow below.

This clip from J. Haidt shows that we instinctively share God’s morals. In this we are truly Gods and children of God.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

I am God because I am the only one who is capable of judging the God I know.
You are a God in your own rite as you are the only one who is capable of judging the God you know.

The noble lie is firmly in place and manipulating your thinking. Discard it. In this day and age we do not need it the way we may have in the past.

The Noble Lie.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/kDNHM84lBA0

As a Gnostic Christian, this theology/philosophy is quite natural to me and can be for all people.

Try thinking as the God that you are. Stop being a sheep and rise to your true inheritance as a shepherd. That is the message Jesus wants you to recognize.

Regards
DL

P.S.
Listen to Jesus and hear for the first time in your life.
Ps 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Hosea 1:10 Ye are the sons of the living God.
Do you think that sons of God are destined to be sheep or shepherds?
Jesus was here to empower us. Not enslave us. Do not waste what he gave.

curious2 says

So, after sorting out why God hates babies and amputees, the next question is, why does God so love politicians?

The answer is the Noble Lie and-----

http://www.youtube.com/embed/WCkOmcIl79s

Regards
DL

In response to DL:
God, by definition, is possessed of unlimited potential. An unlimited God would not be able to experience his creation unless he limited himself to a level where he could be affected by the universe. So he sends out sparks of himself which dwell in creatures subject to the natural laws which he has made. This spark is what we know as consciousness. Conscious thought is something unique and, so far, impossible to replicate, as we do not really understand it. For all we know, the spark of God that makes us human is the same thing that makes us able to be a vessel through which God can experience his creation and tell the stories he wants to tell. In that sense we are all gods, but in an infinitely less capacity than the unlimited being which is our origin. This explains God's love, as we are both his creation and pieces of himself. The analogy of His children works very well here.
So yes, we are gods, but the biggest portion of this revelation is to realize that we possess self determination. The biggest obstacle we face is ourselves, our insecurities and our fear. Fear is our true enemy. Fear causes us to limit ourselves and limit the idea of what we can accomplish.
In the 2nd Timothy 1:7 Paul writes, "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and self control."
This passage sums up both arguments. As His creations, endowed with His spirit, God wants us to take up our birthright, stepping away from fear, and take on the mantle of power he has bequeathed us. Letting go of fear and addiction is just the first step.

Genesis tells us a snake empowered by Satan visited Eve and beguiled her into eating the forbidden fruit. She was warned that in the day she ate of it she would surely die. But she did not die that day in a physical sense. Did she die? It would seem that yes, both her and Adam died spiritually when they chose to follow their own will and reject Gods commandment. Likewise all of their descendents are born spiritually dead. Later they of course suffered physical death as well. But it is spiritual death, or rather the lack of spiritual life that is mankinds condemnation. If this doesn't make sense to you I admonish you to seek Him while you are physically alive. There is only so much time before you meet Him, and unless you meet Him by choice as your reedemer, you will surely meet him as your judge.

Quigley says

So yes, we are gods,

You say this while remaining a sheep.

If you are a God, what need have you of a redeemer?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/aGx4IlppSgU

Regards
DL

Vaticanus says

Genesis tells us a snake empowered by Satan visited Eve and beguiled her into eating the forbidden fruit. She was warned that in the day she ate of it she would surely die. But she did not die that day in a physical sense. Did she die? It would seem that yes, both her and Adam died spiritually when they chose to follow their own will and reject Gods commandment. Likewise all of their descendents are born spiritually dead. Later they of course suffered physical death as well. But it is spiritual death, or rather the lack of spiritual life that is mankinds condemnation. If this doesn't make sense to you I admonish you to seek Him while you are physically alive. There is only so much time before you meet Him, and unless you meet Him by choice as your reedemer, you will surely meet him as your judge.

The usual Christian attempt to create fear like the fear you have in your own pathetic heart.

You are right that the snake was under Satan's control. That makes it an innocent victim. Yet your God punished it. God was an immoral prick from the begining.

But more directly to your twisted view.
In Eden, God said that A & E had become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. You see this gain of a moral sense as somehow evil. Satan loves those who think that becoming moral is wrong. He awaits your passing.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/SF6I5VSZVqc

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/jqN8EYIIR3g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9dspWh9g3hU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/embed/9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related

Regards
DL

Dl says "The usual Christian attempt to create fear like the fear you have in your own pathetic heart."

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It appears you have none. I no longer fear death nor hell, as I know the savior. Fear can be a good thing when we it alerts us to danger, and causes us to seek safety. In this case the arms of the savior. Perfect love of the savior then casts out fear when we trust and accept His will and love for us. Don't confuse "Christian" teachings and the actions of "Christians" as the words and actions of God. The god you refer to is not the God I know.

It is fairly obvious that you are trying so hard not to accept God that you are trying to make him out to be the bad guy. All he wants is your heart, turn to him and your fear will be cast away by His perfect love. I assure you the God I know can set you free.

I assure you that the God I know never put us in chains or condemned us in the first place.

Keep your baby murdering prick and shove your preaching. You have nothing you can teach a man with morals.

BTW, why do you use the picture of a pedophile protecting pope as your icon?

Plan on meeting him in hell?

Regards
DL

Oh he'll be there I'm sure.

Your version of morals must be newspeak.

Does this post belong on this site?

Fear the Flying Spaghetti Monster, lest he single you out for your sins with his noodly appendage!

The Dali Lama once said that "G-D" is a concept; thinking about it, everyone has a different "concept" arise in the mind when the word "G-D" is mentioned. There is also Faith, in the basic goodness of human being, and there is the possibility that the universe is infinite and humans are finite and perhaps we do not have a complete understanding .... and so on ....

That is why I wrote post # 5

Does it make sense to you?

Regards
DL

I'm confused. God? What's that?

tclement says

I'm confused. God? What's that?

Nowadays it is whatever you like. All seem to have invented their own version of God.

Those who have been unlucky enough to have had an apotheosis and found our true God are just another voice in Babel.

Regards
DL