patrick.net

Kevin says

There is NO OTHER PLACE ON THIS PLANET where so many different companies cluster.

I dunno, there sure are a lot in Hsinchu Science Park. Oh yeah, I forgot. They only build icky poo manufacturing of "stuff" there; they don't do "tech".

Kevin says

outside of SV (and maybe NYC) you'll be lucky to find two or three good quality employers in any given city.

Really? What is your definition of a "good quality employer?"

B.A.C.A.H. says

They only build icky poo manufacturing of "stuff" there; they don't do "tech".

LOL! give me more icky poo anyday.. just love icky poo... you learn alot from icky poo..

So there is a really nice corporate housing complex near where I am living now. Mega nice hot tub and pool, and no locks on the gates. I am a regular visitor to those facilities haha. Anyway, when I was there tonight I was talking to a guy that is here visiting from CT. EE-turned-programmer. Since I was born and raised here, he asked me, "so I am sort of curious, why do they call it the silicon valley? All I really see here is software." So I explained the history of the place and how there is still some hardware here, but it really is just a software hub for the most part. There is still a semi-tech presence, but it is just a shell of what it used to be. Except for the insane industrial ground pollution that runs from San Jose to Menlo Park, that is still ever-present to remind us of the SV's "roots". I guess that this was his first visit here, and since it is "winter" here right now, he wants to move out here. Can't blame him, especially since he just went through Sandy.

I think that the "tech" industry in general has matured and is not really innovating at all like it used to. It all mostly looks like gimmicky new applications of existing/miniaturized technology with fancy software front-ends to get consumers to open their wallets. Granted, that stuff keeps my paychecks rolling, but I really cringe when I see the word "innovate" used in the media. Wake me up when we have a viable replacement for silicon computing and a readily available material with 10x the thermal conductivity of copper. That's not to say that there are not a lot of smart, talented people in the SFBA, but it is funny to see how many are under the illusion that they are revolutionizing the world or something. Bro, it's a phone that lets you snoop on your friends' lives 24/7, not a stable wormhole that instantly transports you anywhere you want while simultaneously curing cancer.

bmwman91 says

I really cringe when I see the word "innovate" used in the media.

because
B.A.C.A.H. says

pop finance media is Our New Age Goebbels

Godwin's Law looks like it might soon be in effect here lol.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Just how long have you lived in this region and how many years of "tech" experience are you speaking from?

15 years in the industry, 7 years in SV before I decided it wasn't worth trying to raise a family there.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Really? What is your definition of a "good quality employer?"

[Referring to tech companies] -- One that:

- Has a real future so you won't be getting laid off in a year anyway.
- Pays well
- Respects their employees

There are at least two dozen companies I can think of off the top of my head that are headquartered in SV that meet these qualifications. Other big cities have vassel offices of some subset of these companies, maybe.

If you're involved in just about any type of science and engineering (and are good at it), you can go to SV and have your pick of employers. Go to any other city and you'll be lucky to even be able to get interviews at more than two or three.

I see. A resident expert since 2005, Seven Years of Feast. thomas, bmwman and myself are lifers here. Local podunk kids. We have seen these cycles come and go. Through the years all those Who Rush In supporting local services by paying market rate property taxes directly ("homeowners") or indirectly (market rents), thank you very much. Good luck and enjoy.

Kevin says

[Referring to tech companies] -- One that:

- Has a real future so you won't be getting laid off in a year anyway.
- Pays well
- Respects their employees

A year is not much of a "real" future, - you think? Pays well is relative to the cost of living. Respects their employees, hmm. By that I suppose you mean, has domestic partner benefits. I grant you that, but I don't think the Bay Area is the only region outside of NYC with that kind of respecting of employees.

bmwman91 says

Godwin's Law looks like it might soon be in effect here lol.

I didn't know about Godwin's Law till I looked it up. Which part will be in effect?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

While falling foul of Godwin's law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose their argument or credibility,

or

fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

?

BACAH, this part.

"Godwin's law is an argument made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: 'As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.'"

I forgot that it can be plain-old Nazi references, not just ones to Hitler. Godwin's Law is in fact in effect! There's a politics section on a large BMW forum that I sometimes visit (now THERE'S a cesspool!)...Godwin seems to rule that place lol. It's fairly rare that I see Nazi references on Pnet, excluding A-Fuck's posts anyway. Neo-Nazi cannibal serial killers lol.

Anyway, I am not saying that the references are inaccurate. We ARE dealing with RE and the central bank, so as far as I am concerned those references are totally appropriate!

B.A.C.A.H. says

A year is not much of a "real" future, - you think?

o_O. I can't tell if you're just being obtuse or ...

Pays well is relative to the cost of living.

That's part of it.

There good tech companies in the valley pay 50% more than others. They're the ones where the competent people go (well, the ones who don't start their own business).

Respects their employees, hmm. By that I suppose you mean, has domestic partner benefits. I grant you that, but I don't think the Bay Area is the only region outside of NYC with that kind of respecting of employees.

No, I mean they:

- Let people work the hours that they want
- Treat people like adults when it comes to using building facilities
- Let people take vacations when they want
- Speaks openly and honestly about what's going on inside the company (products, finances, etc.)
- Has a transparent system for promotions / raises / bonus / equity
- Provides a top tier benefits package, even if it costs a bit more.

The vast majority of companies don't do most of these things.

In SV, a good engineer can choose from a dozen companies that fall into this group. In other big cities like ny, chicago, or seattle you might have two or three. In smaller cities you'll be lucky if there's a vassel office of one of the big ones.

Kevin,

You weren't here during the tech crash (or maybe you were, when did you leave?). If you think that there is job security in the number of tech companies, you are a little off. I was working a summer job at a Home Depot tool rental department at that time. 3 of the other 5 guys I worked with were VLSI designers from IBM. Another summer job was spent working in a warehouse for the county office of education. A couple of those guys were from a division of Lucent Tech that got shut down. The economy around here was D-E-A-D, empty storefronts and everything.

I am seeing and hearing all sorts of stuff now with Web 2.0 or whatever that is eerily familiar. Dozens of companies with no real business model and "the world's best talent" creating IPOs. It's the new NEW paradigm, man. In 1999 it was, "It's not about profits man, it's about finding investors!" In 2012 it is, "Well, it's about LOOKING profitable man, then using that to find investors! And changing the internet forever!!1"

The major players that make up the backbone of this place like Intel, (maybe) AMD, Cisco, NASA, Agilent, HP, Apple and (maybe) Google will probably still be here after the next correction, but you are crazy if you think that they mean guaranteed job security. You need to be damn good at your job as well as knowing how to play politics to make the right friends in management. It's very rare to be able to play politics while actually being good at your job, too. Maybe it WON'T crash again and web companies are humanity's future, I don't know. I doubt it, though. They are all 100% dependent on ad revenue, and ad revenue only exists when people have disposable time and money. Given the economic condition of our nation, I don't see disposable income increasing the way it needs to to sustain most of these companies.

bmwman, he's only been here since 2005, only seen his Seven Years of Feast. Maybe he's a Homeowner in a recent wave of Greater Fools who came in to take the place of former residents from former behemoths like IBM or Sun or Lockheed or pre-Second-Coming-of-Jobs Apple or whatever.

I worked in some of the places he probably would call inferior employers and some he'd probably call gilded. Much of what he attributes to being great companies is the culture of the region, as I have experienced most of what he wrote at what he would call the crappy employers, except maybe the gilded benefits part. Gotta be a Civil Servant for that. Thank goodness folks (Greater Fools) keep churning in here to keep the house prices and assessments high to make ever-higher property taxes to support or Civil Servants.