patrick.net

Then what?
Would you prefer a 30% sales tax on everything?
I wish the Moron generation would stop fucking the American government and the Democratic process. My feet would get sore if I had to wear, knee high Commie boots.

Yes. 30% sales tax is better than 30% income tax. That's fairly obvious to anyone who earns a paycheck.

Imagine this, I make pet beds in south Georgia. I sell a bed to Wal-Mart or such for $6/hr. My competition makes pet beds in China and sells pet beds to Wal-Mart etc for $6. Now, I have to pay my employees as well as absorb about 8% tax. My employees have to absorb 20% income tax or something like that depending on their family income, deductions, etc.

So, both my company and the supplier benefit from the USA government. 40% of the employees at wal-mart or such receive some sort of government assistance. Buy hey! Who pays for that? Not my competitor in China. Nor his employees. I pay for that. And my employees.

What's more, the whole economic system, police system, world-military protection, and other benefits paid for by USA taxpayers benefit my company and that of my competitor. Who pays for that? Not my competitor.

So, would you prefer me to pay a 30% sales tax or a 30% income tax? Surely you can see that the latter taxes Americans more. HAve you never runa company, even a single person company? And surely you can see the former imposes the tax load on my competitor company in China as well as my company in the USA. So, are you saying you favor the communist system of China and believe Americans should be punished for working in America and foreign companies continued to be given a free lunch at the cost of Americans?

This would also shift tax burden from younger to older people. AARP would crap all over this. It would however allow the gov't to effectively cut social security payments (buying power) without actually cutting social security payments (nominal).

Melmakian says

The only way to impose such a thing on consumption at such a high rate would be via a VAT, where the tax is applied through each stage of production/distribution.

Don't even go there.

Land/property value tax makes more sense.

I see government as a defender of private properties. Such tax is more like a protection fee and it is not punitive on production.

More importantly, once taxation is seen as a way of "equality" and "Wealth redistribution" all is lost.

I guess internet retailers would hate the fair tax idea! Solution doesn't have to be "fair tax" but do need to move from a payroll tax system as it punishes workers. (as to the tax dodge argument above, what do you think the "farm and construction" wavers in the IRS tax code do? Or other under the table workers?)

maxweber21 says

I guess internet retailers would hate the fair tax idea! Solution doesn't have to be "fair tax" but do need to move from a payroll tax system as it punishes workers.

payroll taxes do not "punish" workers.

Untax workers and landlords will take every penny of the increased disposable income.

We simply need to raise taxes to match what we're spending. This basically means double the tax burden across the board, from people who don't have a pot to piss in to Buffett.

Germany, Denmark, and Sweden have a tax-to-GDP in the 45% to 55% range. Ours is around 25%.

Oh, and fuck China. American labor rates can't compete with Chinese labor and working conditions, nor should we try.

Bellingham Bill says

We simply need to raise taxes to match what we're spending. This basically means double the tax burden across the board, from people who don't have a pot to piss in to Buffett.

Or we simply lower spending to match half of the tax revenue. The we can cut taxes in half.

Bellingham Bill says

Germany, Denmark, and Sweden have a tax-to-GDP in the 45% to 55% range.

We should not aspire to be those countries. We should be more like Switzerland.

Bellingham Bill says

payroll taxes do not "punish" workers.

Untax workers and landlords will take every penny of the increased disposable income.

Let's eliminate minimum wage so those "evil" landlords get less, since lower take-home pay does not "punish" workers.

Peter P says

"evil" landlords get less

funny you put that in scare quotes.

Peter P says

since lower take-home pay does not "punish" workers.

absence of minimum wage just results in labor bidding their wages down to $0.

this is no longer the 19th century, bud.

however, minimum wage is basically a rent subsidy in the end. Churchill observed as much in his 1909 speeches on land value tax, how removing a bridge toll just resulted in area rents rising.

Peter P says

Or we simply lower spending to match half of the tax revenue. The we can cut taxes in half.

"simply" LOL

We should aspire to be those countries. We should not be more like Switzerland.

Boy, arguing like an idiot is fun!

Bellingham Bill says

absence of minimum wage just results in labor bidding their wages down to $0.

this is no longer the 19th century, bud.

How is that necessarily a bad thing, if that is the true price?

Passage of time does not imply progress. Humanity took a turn for the worse quite sometime ago.

Peter P says

How is that necessarily a bad thing, if that is that true price?

there is no such thing as "true price". Just power relationships, driven by supply and demand.

Humanity took a turn for the better quite sometime ago.