patrick.net

I have an agenda in this post, I have to admit.
I did not read Patrick's book. I watch this forum long enough to understand his idea.

He basically denounces ownership because the market is not healthy and it is still better financially to rent than to own.
This is his financial justification. I agree with it 100%. However I don't want to fool myself. There are other reasons, emotional ones, more people still want to own than to rent. It is inside of us. The way you deal with that is to deprive yourself that emotional aspect, trying to justify that "psychological needs should be dealt with". For me it is almost like you guys decide to go to priesthood and declaring celibacy for higher values. Sorry for that comparison, but it is the best one I came out with.
I'm trying to say that 'desire" of ownership is A. natural, B. good. and I give an example of patriotism, pride, responsibility, wealth creation. We shouldn't suppress that desire or be ashamed of it or think there is something wrong with us because we want a house. We can wait of course for better times to buy but we shouldn't deny it to ourselves.
I guess that what I tried to express in here.

GraooGra says

New Renter says

So as a renter I should not care that:

The house next door was the target of a drive-by shooting. Why should I, it doesn't affect MY property value!

My kids school is staffed by indifferent teachers. It is also full of bullies, wanna be gang bangers and druggies. But hey, its not MY problem, I'M a renter.

The house is full of black mold - not my problem, it's the landlords.

The drug dealer on the corner selling hard drugs to kids - eh, who cares, I rent.

Maybe because there is too many renters in that neighborhood they are these problems? You personally might care but other people don't feel obligated to care.

I think most people, renters or owners aren't too happy about bullets flying in the neighborhood. Granted renters may have the ability to flee while owners are stuck. In that regard you may have a point, however there comes a time when the renters can no longer find a safe haven.

Of course the property owners should have a say in all this. Even if the renters don't care the landlords should - its THEIR property values being affected after all. They have the ability to either evict problem tenants or at the minimum refuse to renew the lease.

So what does a neighborhood do against a homeowner who does not keep up the property? Lets say the property owner is a disabled war hero who cannot do the work himself or afford to hire someone, what then?

I don't think that buys vs rent or homeownership in general has anything to do with patriotism. It's simply a decision based on qualitative and quantitative factors. However, patriotism is not really one of them. Regarding "American Values" - the relationship would only be incidental in that homeownership is an "american value" based on social value system. However, neither owner or renter should view themselves as more or less american. Regarding "proud capitalist" - I suppose that someone who cares about asset growth/preservation would be more inclined to buy if they have a long term outlook. A "proud capitalist" would probably prefer the "forced savings" aspects of principal paydowns vs converting principal payments into liquid cash as a renter would and then potentially blowing that same liquid cash on going out to eat/shopping as a renter might do. As far as whether these values are "alive or dead" - kinda hard to generalize, but from my experience I would say that most people in their 20s/early 30s don't really view homeownership as a status symbol all that much and tend to pripritize discretionary spending and social activites that discretionary spending facilitates.

For me home ownership is all about the lease not being up next month.
And never, ever having to consider the landlord when I buy and use a tool.
I'm not sweating whether or not I'll get my deposit back.
So far(and due to the economic times of deflation) I've actually gotten checks back at the end of the year from escrow. $1200 the first year, $550 last year, and around $500 this year. Another year and another grand and I'll have my deposit I put down on the place back.

I can't recall the landlord ever giving me money back at the end of the year.

My wife can talk about back yard wedding receptions, in five or ten years, and it not seem preposterous. Even though marriage is nowhere on our daughters horizon yet.

GraooGra says

Is ownership a real property and a personal property a patriotic act?
Is ownership considered adherence to American Values?
Is ownership a manifestation of being a proud Capitalist?

If so, then the government is being unpatriotic by propping up housing prices.