patrick.net

It was there to protect all the other amendments in case government stops recognizing them. It's the enforcement mechanism that public has on the government.

FortWayne says

It was there to protect all the other amendments in case government stops recognizing them. It's the enforcement mechanism that public has on the government.

The government has stop recognizing all the other amendments. The Constitution doesn't allow the state to strip search and cavity search citizens just because some cop says he thinks someone is suspicious. The Constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on.

But please, please prove me wrong by rounding up a posse to go after these police criminals who raped a woman, who tortured an innocent boy who fell due to diabetes, who brutally beat a defenseless 15-year-old, etc. I will wholly agree with you when I see that happen.

Not every offense by a government representative must be redressed by bloody revolt Dan. We have the courts for that, and many cops have gone to prison, many large settlements paid to victims and their families.
Your insistence on belaboring this asinine argument only proves your powers of reason to be woefully immature.

Dan8267 says

But please, please prove me wrong by rounding up a posse to go after these police criminals who raped a woman, who tortured an innocent boy who fell due to diabetes, who brutally beat a defenseless 15-year-old, etc. I will wholly agree with you when I see that happen.

I never heard of the things you mentioned, and probably most people never heard about this, maybe that is why these issues aren't addressed. But if these exist, why not curtail our government so that it does not abuse it's citizenry any longer. I'm all for that.

That's the best thing we can do for our children, leave them a better and a more free world than what was given to us.

Quigley says

Not every offense by a government representative must be redressed by bloody revolt Dan. We have the courts for that, and many cops have gone to prison, many large settlements paid to victims and their families.

Cops commit crime all the time. They even recently killed some kid who was homeless, that was on a radio out here in CA recently. Big scandal and only AM stations covered it as far as I know. And there is a lawsuit now pending. I've donated some cash to the cause.

And Rodney King, I'm sure you heard about that one. The kind of beating they gave him goes against any rights we have... unless we the people have the right to shoot those assholes back. Because not every cop is a good cop. And if society did not rise up in protest back than, they'd still be beating anyone they arrest senseless. Because they are the authority, and until that authority is challenged with severe opposition, they'll beat us all into obedience.

FortWayne says

It was there to protect all the other amendments in case government stops recognizing them. It's the enforcement mechanism that public has on the government.

Didja READ the article?

FortWayne says

And if society did not rise up in protest back than, they'd still be beating anyone they arrest senseless. Because they are the authority, and until that authority is challenged with severe opposition, they'll beat us all into obedience.

Question: Of the 100,000 people shot by guns last year, how many of those incidents successfully stopped oppression by the U.S. government? Oh, was it ZERO?

FortWayne says

And Rodney King, I'm sure you heard about that one. The kind of beating they gave him goes against any rights we have... unless we the people have the right to shoot those assholes back. Because not every cop is a good cop. And if society did not rise up in protest back than, they'd still be beating anyone they arrest senseless. Because they are the authority, and until that authority is challenged with severe opposition, they'll beat us all into obedience.

Yeah, sometimes cops do bad things. Sometimes politicians do bad things. Some times priests do bad things. Some times doctors do bad things.

If we had a revolt against every entity that was supposed to protect us every time a representative of that entity did something vile, we'd just have anarchy.

The correct action when a cop misbehaves is to punish them. In the overwhelming majority of cases, this is precisely what happens. Sometimes people do bad things and get away with it, but this is true of everyone, not just cops.

Contrary to popular opinion, Americans don't live in a repressive dictatorship.

Homeboy says

Of the 100,000 people shot by guns last year, how many of those incidents successfully stopped oppression by the U.S. government?

How many preserved slavery, or even attempted to?

Regarding the early history of the 2nd amendment, ratified in 1791, you might want to read about Shay's rebellion (1786) and the whiskey rebellion (1794) among others. Regarding the history of the 2nd amendment since 1865, you might want to read the 13th amendment.

The basic problem with your argument is the same as Antonin Scalia's. You cite a small number of selectively quoted sources as if they spoke for everyone, then you raise strawmen to knock them down and seem smart. The Constitution is a whole document, the text and meaning of which were deliberately and repeatedly amended on multiple occasions. There are 27 amendments in all, some of which were enacted together in package deals (e.g. the Bill of Rights). That some people may have supported a particular phrase for a particular purpose doesn't change the fact that other people supported it for other reasons.

curious2 says

Homeboy says

Of the 100,000 people shot by guns last year, how many of those incidents successfully stopped oppression by the U.S. government?

How many preserved slavery, or even attempted to?

Complete non-sequitur. FortWayne said we need to challenge authority, so I pointed out that guns aren't being used to challenge authority. Your answer to that is that guns aren't being used to preserve slavery?

When did I say we need to preserve slavery?

Would it be too much trouble for you to post things that make some sort of sense?

curious2 says

The basic problem with your argument is the same as Antonin Scalia's.

My argument? That was a quote from the article I linked to. Did you read the article?

Homeboy says

Did you read the article?

Yes, and your tedious argument, which you copied and pasted without even quotation marks ("The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified...." - as if there were only one real reason).

You are now on ignore, troll.

Homeboy says

You are now on ignore

Please feel free to ignore me too. It might cut down on your rapid-fire rhetorical questions, habitual profanity, strawmen, and simply false statements where you get stuck in a loop and end up embarrassing yourself, e.g. about vaccines.

Saw your post on preview, curious. You ARE the one i put on ignore. Duh.

Homeboy says

Saw your post on preview,

OK, so you're only pretending to ignore me, and not even doing a good job of that either. Your profile says you're ignoring half a dozen people already, so you ought to be better at it by now.

To the contrary - the first gun controls were used against blacks - this way it was easier to kill and enslave them.

AlexS says

To the contrary - the first gun controls were used against blacks - this way it was easier to kill and enslave them

To the contrary of what?

AlexS says

To the contrary - the first gun controls were used against blacks - this way it was easier to kill and enslave them.

yep... no one was even worried about getting into another war with Great Britain would occur even if they still were in Canada and in Caribbean. Heck not even the French might go after our territory.. especially since Napoleon sold good chunk of Louisiana Territory to US govt and many who defeated him wanted the Louisiana Territory back go after us.. So no chance of another war with European powers on our lands by say 1812.

Pure BS! New York and Mass. did not demand the 2nd Amendment to capture slaves. Maybe Virginia did, however if that was a necessary deal, our capital would be either in New York or Philadelphia. Yet it was put into a swamp in Virginia.

Note that is the 2nd Amendment out of ten. The framers knew that the second was needed to protect the first.

Now, the framers could not see the world we live in today. I think that the individual states should pass gun control rules, and not Congress. There are rules we need, but let the states do it.

fedwatcher says

Pure BS! New York and Mass. did not demand the 2nd Amendment to capture slaves. Maybe Virginia did, however if that was a necessary deal, our capital would be either in New York or Philadelphia. Yet it was put into a swamp in Virginia.

Note that is the 2nd Amendment out of ten. The framers knew that the second was needed to protect the first.

Sorry to be blunt, but those seem like rather weak arguments, don't you think?

How did that "right to bear arms" work out for all those Southern gun toters in the Civil War who thought they were 10 feet tall & bullet proof? The Republican Abe Lincoln kick their asses, freed their property(slaves) & rammed Reconstruction down their throats & today the dumbasses are still voting Republican. Ron White:"You can't fix stupid"
All you brave American, Patriot, gun owing,2nd amendment lovers use your weapons in an offensive manner against this country & some young American soldier sitting in front of a keyboard will take your ass out with a drone. Now go get another beer & tell each other how BAD you are & what your gonna do if the U.S.A. does something you don't like.

I thought bartering with arms went out of fashion mid 1800's....

HEY YOU says

How did that "right to bear arms" work out for all those Southern gun toters in the Civil War who thought they were 10 feet tall & bullet proof? The Republican Abe Lincoln kick their asses, freed their property(slaves) & rammed Reconstruction down their throats & today the dumbasses are still voting Republican. Ron White:"You can't fix stupid"

All you brave American, Patriot, gun owing,2nd amendment lovers use your weapons in an offensive manner against this country & some young American soldier sitting in front of a keyboard will take your ass out with a drone. Now go get another beer & tell each other how BAD you are & what your gonna do if the U.S.A. does something you don't like.

SoftShell says

I thought bartering with arms went out of fashion mid 1800's....

Go fuck yourself