patrick.net

MMR says

On average, I think that ER docs are doing better than Psych docs. It is certainly more competitive to get an ER residency than a psych residency.

Thanks - I hadn't updated recently, and I see now that current numbers corroborate your opinion. This site shows current starting salaries for both critical care and psych around $200k, with psych being slightly lower:

http://www.profilesdatabase.com/resources/2011-2012-physician-salary-survey

So, I'll stop saying that emergency doctors make less than Homefool's pushers. It used to be true, but the numbers have apparently changed recently. I continue though to believe that Homefool's SSRI pushers are overpaid because we are all required to pay them even when they confer no value, e.g. the cost of his disproved SSRI coverage must be shifted onto all of us because he can't afford it on his own, nevermind that it does no good for anyone.

BTW, in terms of medical practice areas, you might want to consider sports medicine or even the military. The patients tend to be highly functional, they might need help with specific problems but they aren't generally self-destructive. I would worry about Lance Armstrong situations though, even at the teenage level kids are trying to bulk up with steroids etc. Otherwise much of current medicine consists of managing self-destructive people as profitably as possible: every complaint results in another test and every test results in another prescription, no time to listen, etc.

Rin says

You've already heard all the jazz about education in the above threads.

That's your argument? Lame.

CL says

I'm barely in this argument, but I mentioned that only because it seems like ball players are actually paid fairly.

Fair's got nothing to do with this, but since you brought it up, if you think $5 million a year (average NBA salary) is "fair" for someone to throw a ball around, but $200,000 (average doctor salary) isn't fair for someone to save lives, then you need to have your head examined. I would suggest seeing a doctor. ;)

CL says

People think they live luxurious lifestyles, and sure, some do. But the ones that do don't do so for long, unless they invest wisely. Otherwise, it's a short career with lots of physical damage for an extremely elite group of folks.

They make more money in a single year than most people make in their ENTIRE LIFE. Then, on top of that, they retire with a pension. If you can't survive on that amount of money, you're a complete fucking moron. What part of that don't you understand?

CaptainShuddup says

Quit saying Doctors earn their money.

The last time I checked we got a $1200 dollar bill just for the Doctor to tell us what we already knew and give my wife a glorified aspirin. He was in the room for a grand total of 10 minutes.

The doctor didn't MAKE $1200 in that 10 minutes. That's what the healthcare company BILLED you.

By the way, next year, when everyone gets insurance under ACA, it will probably cost you about $20 for the co-pay. Hmmm.... $20 or $1200. Which is better?

CaptainShuddup says

After a three hour wait in the split back gown.

Ugh - didn't need that visual.

curious2 says

even at the teenage level kids are trying to bulk up with steroids etc

When I was in high school, there was a kid on the weight lifting team that doped so much steroids that he wasn't even aware of his body's own limitations anymore. Result: he snatched (or was it a clean and jerk?) 750 pounds and blew his large intestine partially out of his anus.

Anyone notice how Rin and MMR say pretty much exactly the same things in exactly the same way?

Hmmm.....

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

If they got better money kicking you to death in front of your spouse and kids....

Have you seen chemotherapy? Why risk injuring yourself kicking the patient, when you can prescribe drugs and have the nurse administer them, then enjoy watching the patient puke his guts out all over the place. W said it's hard to put food on your family, but probably he never tried projectile vomiting.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

If they got better money kicking you to death in front of your spouse and kids, they'd take it.

Mild hip dysplasia would be the only thing keeping me from inquiring...

Homeboy says

Anyone notice how Rin and MMR say pretty much exactly the same things in exactly the same way?

Hmmm.....

I knew that that was the best that you could do. How lame.

It only indicates that your reading comprehension skills of an intelligent conversation is limited.

Ask Patrick if we have the same IPs, if you want to play Dick Tracy, you troll.

BTW, I'm done responding to you, ignore is activated.

I hadn't thought of the military. It's an intriguing choice Younger guys especially might be more willing to listen and most have some concept of exercise. As long as it was a job in Coastal California, I'd strongly consider it. I personally don't want to live anywhere else, even if no one is willing to offer me partnership in an insurance mill.

Sports medicine is a possibility as is endocrinology, diabetes and metabolism, with emphasis on exercise/nutrition.

Regarding the Lance Armstrong situations, I think about that stuff in passing every single day and some days more than others. It's almost as if you read my mind or something.

When you get a chance an good movie (you prob saw it but just in case). Good discussion on the latter topic. Won award at 2008 Sundance Film Festival

http://www.youtube.com/embed/E9lfwIknpAU&list=PLDEC560256566A03A

curious2 says

BTW, in terms of medical practice areas, you might want to consider sports medicine or even the military. The patients tend to be highly functional, they might need help with specific problems but they aren't generally self-destructive. I would worry about Lance Armstrong situations though, even at the teenage level kids are trying to bulk up with steroids etc. Otherwise much of current medicine consists of managing self-destructive people as profitably as possible: every complaint results in another test and every test results in another prescription, no time to listen, etc.

Thank you

Rin says

Homeboy says

Anyone notice how Rin and MMR say pretty much exactly the same things in exactly the same way?

Hmmm.....

I knew that that was the best that you could do. How lame.

It only indicates that your reading comprehension skills of an intelligent conversation is limited.

Ask Patrick if we have the same IPs, if you want to play Dick Tracy, you troll.

BTW, I'm done responding to you, ignore is activated.

yawn. Attacking people for their opinions is boring for the rest of us to read.

elliemae says

yawn. Attacking people for their opinions is boring for the rest of us to read.

But what if their opinion DIFFERS from mine?!?!? I don't think I could live in such a world.

Rin says

I knew that that was the best that you could do. How lame.

It only indicates that your reading comprehension skills of an intelligent conversation is limited.

Ask Patrick if we have the same IPs, if you want to play Dick Tracy, you troll.

BTW, I'm done responding to you, ignore is activated.

Yeah, you're right - you probably ARE too stupid to figure out how to change your IP iddress.

Gee, sorry I can't "comprehend" your "intelligent conversation". What was your last "intelligent" argument? Oh yeah:

"You've already heard all the jazz about education in the above threads."

Yeah, that was a really deep and meaningful argument. I can't believe I didn't "comprehend" it. Fucking troll.

elliemae says

Attacking people for their opinions is boring for the rest of us to read.

So is making up strawmen and arguing for the sake of argument.

Rin says

Actually Meccos, it looks like that I'm gaining more adherents over time than you. Just read all the responses above.

Im glad you think this is a popularity contest and you think you are winning. Kudos to you...

Rin says

You thought that you could make me look sophomoric but it appears that that moniker is slowly fitting you rather well with your pomposity.

Never tried to make you look sophomoric, however if you did, its your own fault. I do love how you turn this around and accuse me of being pompous because I chose to argue against your insane claims...
Do not forget you are the same person who claims to have made 700k a year working in a hedge fund, but you have the audacity to scream out loud that physician are overpaid. Your entire posts have been attacks on physicians and the profession and yet when someone rebuttals your arguments, you and simpletons like chankaya claim I am being pompous and disrespectful of other profession (to which I made no condescending comments about). Its quite comical actually.

Rin says

Yes, when (not if) I become a doctor, I will never get online and tell ppl that doctors are a gem of society. Instead, I'll say that unlike some (whose names I won't mention), I've done the best that I could. And if that basically turns me into an adjunct physical therapist or nutritionist then so be it. I'm sure I could survive on my earnings from the HF work for some time.

Ok,... "when" you do become a doctor... perhaps you can share your experiences about how easy it is and how you should get paid way less. Until you have actually experienced it do you think it is wise to speak as if you had volumes of knowledge on the subject matter? Furthermore, will you include yourself among those in the very profession in which you have ridiculed as being incompetent, overpaid, manipulative, etc in your earlier posts?

Rin says

Homeboy says

Rin says

Read chanakya4773's comments on the firemen, in terms of saving lives and the payscale.

Oh, I see. You acknowledge the validity of the argument when it's used by someone you agree with, but claim it's an invalid argument when I use it. Nice....

OK, so how many firemen do you know, who earn from $200K to $300K? Yes, I'm now using your argument concerning payscale.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/03/03/3446569/see-average-police-firefighter.html?appSession=866362614715382

CaptainShuddup says

Quit saying Doctors earn their money.

The last time I checked we got a $1200 dollar bill just for the Doctor to tell us what we already knew and give my wife a glorified aspirin. He was in the room for a grand total of 10 minutes. After a three hour wait in the split back gown.

This is the problem. Everyone thinks it is just this simple but it is not. People see the doctor... they get charged 1200, they assume the doctor charged 1200 and he got it all. Guess again...

Go home, boy.

Homeboy says

elliemae says

Attacking people for their opinions is boring for the rest of us to read.

So is making up strawmen and arguing for the sake of argument.

Meccos says

This is the problem. Everyone thinks it is just this simple but it is not. People see the doctor... they get charged 1200, they assume the doctor charged 1200 and he got it all. Guess again...

Faulty logic. It does no matter whether the doctor got $1200 or "only" $1000 after paying for a receptionist, nurse, rent, consumables, whatever. It is still way too damn much for 5min of work. Probably by a factor of 10X, at least. For something like a 5min consult they should just have some minimum charge, at most $50.

There is no way an office practitioner could justify charging more than $400/hour, real face-to-face time with patients.

SoftShell says

Go home, boy.

Your brain is going soft, shell.

justme says

Faulty logic. It does no matter whether the doctor got $1200 or "only" $1000 after paying for a receptionist, nurse, rent, consumables, whatever. It is still way too damn much for 5min of work. Probably by a factor of 10X, at least. For something like a 5min consult they should just have some minimum charge, at most $50.

Of course it matters, idiot. You have to look at who is profiting most from the outrageous charges. It's the giant healthcare companies, not the doctors. The doctor is not actually taking home $1200 for 5 minutes of work. Nor is he taking home $1000.

chanakya4773 says

You tell the firefighter who has to dive in to FIRE to save your precious little life when your house blows up in fire. Tell him why you need to get paid many times more than him because you are going to do a run of the mill surgery in which you personally have zero risk and the rate of success is just another statics.

First of all firefighters make tons of money. They require very little training. And in all honestly (at the sake of being bashed for being politically incorrect..since you cant even bash police and fire) when was the last time you saw a fire? The OVERWHELMING majority of fire fighter calls are for medical emergencies, where they do not risk their lives.
BTW just because you do not place yourself in physical danger does not mean you do not have any "personal" risk. I would argue that every surgery a surgeon performs puts him at risk... risk of needle sticks leading to hepb/C/HIV, risk of lawsuits, risk of being away from family. If by your implication that the risk of physical harm should pay more, then the common taxi driver should get paid more than doctors and firemen.

chanakya4773 says

You seem to believe that a neuro surgeon needs nerves of steel but a firefighter or a soldier does not

Nope never said that... but thanks for trying to put words into my mouth and trying to make this about doctors versus others. Im simply providing the counterargument that doctors are "overpaid". chanakya4773 says

chanakya4773 says

All hard working people contribute to the world in one way or the other.

WHen did i ever say that other people dont contribute???? Wow stop putting words into my mouth and actually read what i wrote.

You seem to be ok when Rin states that the job of the physician is indistinct from other professions, but take so much offense when I simply point out that it is very distinct. There is no condescending tone here, but simply the truth. The jobs are very different.

chanakya4773 says

Now , when you are stuck in a fire in your house, the firefighter will demand 1 million dollars to save you because he had to do 1) 2) 3) and 4) and also because he is "SAVING LIVES"

When is the last fire you saw in your neighborhood?